Alright Veeky Forums, what are some interesting historical (or folkloric) books I should read that may not seem all that interesting initially? I'm looking to broaden my horizons beyond "just"Western European history.
I've recently worked through parts of Carlyle's "The French Revolution", a majority of Wilson's "The Thirty Years War" (2009), and finished biographies on both Napoleon and Peter the Great, if that helps narrow down any choices.
Salt: A World History seems to fit the bill, but I found my interest in it tapering off as I kept reading.
Thanks for replying. Why did that book not hold your interest to the end, or even grab your attention to begin with?
It seems similar to "Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea" by Charles Seife (2000). Maybe you would like that book. Or maybe Beckmann's "A History of Pi" (1971).
It grabbed my interest because the history of salt is something I had never thought about and I thought it would be interesting to hear a worldwide perspective on one topic. I'm not phrasing that well, but I think you know what I mean.
I found that in the beginning it was very interesting to see how humans interacted with salt, how they mined it, the discoveries they made about it, etc. Later on it mostly became a history of the trading of salt which held my interest until the theme of making more money off of salt got repetitive. In the end of the book there was discussion of the chemistry of various salts but this was not fleshed out nearly enough and I found the book sorely lacking in that department.
I will look at those two math books, I haven't heard of either of them. I happen to be a mathematician and usually stay away from popular science books relating to math, although I have a few I could recommend if you like that sort of thing.
The Mathematical Experience by Reuben and Hirsh (author name spelling?) and The Drunkard's Walk by Leonard Mlodinov.
I forgot to mention the book The Alchemy of Air, which is a treatise on the history of chemistry, and which the end of Salt reminded me of. Rather, it's what I wanted the ending of Salt to be.
I really don't like chemistry but The Alchemy of Air was truly a fascinating history.
>The Mathematical Experience by Reuben and Hirsh (author name spelling?)
Sorry to keep posting, but I got this way wrong. It's by Philip J. Davis and Reuben Hersh
The Histories is a classic if you like Greek and Persian shenanigans
more recs please.
I heard pic related was good but haven't read it. It's a doorstopper.
OP here, that's a door-stopper alright. Though I mentioned working through a majority of Wilson's book (1024 pages), I'm not sure I can invest another 800+ pages on something that I've absorbed partially through other sources. Good recommendation nonetheless, user.
Which Wilson are you referring to?
Peter H. Wilson, Harvard University Press. ISBN: 9780674062313
Though there appears to be some discrepancy on the book's date (2009 versus 2011).
Would you recommend his works?
From what I've read, absolutely. His book on the Thirty Years War was the Winner of the Society for Military History Distinguished Book Award (2011) and I found his prose was engaging, rather than being dry. The sheer amount of information that he seems to simplify and place into larger contexts was astonishing to me.
For example, here is an excerpt from one of his chapters:
"Whatever [people's] personal convictions, Protestantism also suited the intensification of lordship by uniting the right of patronage with other proprietorial rights. As one prominent Lower Austrian put it, nobles were 'at the same time lords and bishops on our property, we hire and fire clerics and they have to obey us' (7). The presence of Lutheran noblemen within a province soon created the phenomenon known as 'exodus' (Auslauf), as peasants and burghers left neighbouring Catholic manors and towns to attend Protestant services [...] Debt amortization had cost the Inner Austrians 1.7 million fl. by 1600, while subsidies for the frontier accounted for a further 2.93 million between 1588 and 1608 (9)." ("The Spread of Protestantism", pp. 58-59)
Given the scope of what he's talking about, I'd say that's pretty legible without overindulging in jargon--a trait I find very attractive in historical works.
>Given the scope of what he's talking about, I'd say that's pretty legible without overindulging in jargon--a trait I find very attractive in historical works.
I know that you started this thread asking for recs, but could you mention a few of your favorite history books? I've read almost exclusively fiction for the past 6 years or so while in school, but I'm just beginning a nonfiction kick and I just don't know what's good and isn't in nonfiction.
All I have in exchange is this very nice picture.
Sure thing, let me organize them by genre first. I'll be back with a list of non-fiction books including historical, biographical, and others.
I would really appreciate that. Thank you!
Here are the first 3. I'll be using a trip from now on in Veeky Forums.
Biographical:
“Peter the Great: His Life and World” (1981) by Robert Massie (ISBN: 978-0345298065). This was one of the first biographies of a “Great” person that I read and wasn’t at all what I expected. Massie really takes the time to delve into the personal details of Peter the Great, including his idiosyncratic behavior as a teenager, and ties together these details with later decisions and events in his life that culminate in his reign and attempts at Westernization. For me this struck the right balance between personal observations and societal overviews that shaped his life. The book also won the 1981 Pulitzer Prize for Biography or Autobiography.
“The Rise of Napoleon Bonaparte” (2001) by Robert Asprey (ISBN: 978-0465048816). Though this is technically a two-part work (the second half: The Reign of Napoleon Bonaparte), I thought Asprey did a solid job of communicating the development of Napoleon through adolescence and how various factors influenced his later decision-making skills in conducting campaigns. Something else I found relatively interesting is that it doesn’t shy away from Napoleon’s affection towards Josephine and admits that certain elements of Napoleon’s life are difficult to really look at from an objective standpoint. It also ties in nicely with certain events of the French Revolution from Napoleon’s point of view, demonstrating a willingness to look at Napoleon’s age and patriotism as highly motivating factors in his defense of France from domestic and foreign sources of strife. Also, Asprey uses incorporates maps to illustrate sites of battles and the like, which I found nice.
Political:
“Vengeance: The True Story of an Israeli Counter-Terrorist Team” (2005) by George Jonas (ISBN: 978-0743291644). I was gifted this book a few years ago and found it to be very compelling in terms of pacing and tone. It chronicles the events of Operation “Wrath of God” by Israeli intelligence and while the author at times relies on a single source to fill in details, Jonas explicitly tells the reader which sections cannot be necessarily corroborated and offers interpretations and theories in the footnotes (“Notes on a Controversy”). A good historian is one that can critically engage with readers and opposing articles—which Jonas does in this book—without appearing overly defensive or professionally compromised.
Thanks for putting effort into your posts. I would be especially interested in more political books. I will certainly be looking for Vengeance.
I recently read Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD: the CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond and it got me interested in covert government actions in recent history.
You may find “The Dead Hand: The Untold Story of the Cold War Arms Race and its Dangerous Legacy” (2010) by David Hoffman (ISBN: 978-0-385-52437-7) a worthy read.
Won the Pulitzer Prize in 2010 for General Non-Fiction and chillingly details the efforts of the USSR’s various weapons programs during the Cold War, including “unconventional” methods and the eventual creation of the “Perimeter” system. A bit of caution, though: the author’s language concerning then-President Reagan is almost wholly positive, which (I think) demonstrates bias in attributing Reagan’s actions and political maneuvering to overly-optimistic motivations, which may not necessarily capture the full-spectrum of the events as it were. While no work is without bias, I noticed that these changes in tone and language seemed different than the precision he uses to detail the efforts of the USSR, including its members. Take that however you see fit—I personally thought Hoffman wove a more compelling narrative in the European theatre versus its American counterpart, so to speak. It would also complement the last book you've read, considering its covert nature, far-ranging political consequence, and even the time period involved.
Let me guess, you already listen to imagine oriented poseur albums on /mu/ so now to further that image you've gone to lit?
Unfortunately, that isn't the case. My musical tastes likely aren't exciting enough for a board like /mu/ and I'm much more comfortable with Veeky Forums as a forum for serious discussion. Maybe they're similar arenas for debate in some respects, but I can't honestly say I've had the pleasure of cultivating and maintaining an image on a place like /mu/.
Also consider looking into "King Leopold's Ghost: A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism in Colonial Africa" (1999) by Adam Hochschild. Winner of the Mark Lynton History Prize "for literary style", this is one of the smoothest books I've had the good fortune of reading. It's also a fantastic look at the politics and people who either formulated the atrocities in the Congo for personal gain (like Leopold) or who played pivotal roles in bringing the issues to the light of Western nations (Morel, Casement, and other). The interplay and conflict between governments, industry, and journalism--in the late 1880s to the early 20th century no less--really blended the personal and political motivations together.
I remember my sister recommending this to me ages ago.