I know that the concept of mental illness is a spook, it's so obviously just made up bullshit...

>People have no control over their sexuality.

Then why is pedophilia illegal? Why is beastiality/necrophilia illegal?

>pedophilia
because without mental maturity there is no possibility of consent, it's damaging to the desired object
>beastiality/necrophilia
obscure, no consent possible

>Wow, moral objectivism exists why do we have law? xDDDD

Having those feelings is not illegal. Acting on them to the point that the rights of others who can't give consent (i.e. children, animals, the dead) are violated is illegal. Two consenting adults can fuck all they want.

Consent has literally nothing to do with attraction and your sexuality.

But you cannot control your sexuality, how is it even a possibility to outlaw certain aspects of human nature which are literally, in your words, uncontrollable.

Sexuality isn't a the act of sex you retard

Nope but if I went outside and said I am sexually attracted to animals and children, how do you think that would go down?

I can't control it yo, I am a slave to my genes. I was born a pedo!

I didn't say that anything was uncontrollable, that was my first post.
Certain aspects of human nature make me want to punch people in the face when they're idiots but it isn't "uncontrollable" and is rightfully illegal because it is harmful to them. It is an urge that can be repressed. If someone has urges to perform sex acts on people that can't consent to these acts, they should try to control these urges or in the worst case scenario seek therapy and help. Run-of-the-mill gay sex is harmful to nobody.

Running outside and yelling about sexual attraction to anything will cause you to be ostracized. People have a natural aversion to these two specifically because the urge to prey on weaker people/animals is seen as abhorrent. What are you even trying to argue anymore?

>People have no control over their sexuality.

I literally have no control over the fact that I am attracted to children and animals, if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault, I was born this way, you need to change to facility me, not the other way around.

>Run-of-the-mill gay sex is harmful to nobody.

>an act which denies natural human procreation is harmful to no one

Sure, tell that to your whole family tree and literally every single person who struggled tooth and nail to survive just so you could enjoy some gay buttsex without judgement. Sex with an animal is literally harmful to no one as well, yet it's still illegal.

Fucking faggot.

>implying you can't go outside and yell I'm gay
xD

What are you doing? Is this your way of backing out? You literally have not even addressed the fact that like Homosexuality, pedophilia, necrophilia and beastality might be hereditary as well, I mean, why is it so different?

You are beating around the bush senpai, you can't have your cake and eat it too in this matter.

You are arguing sexuality is uncontrollable, no?

mental health is centred in happiness and because of that is hedonistic and coward to live your life around it.

none of the greatest and strongest people in history were mentally sane or happy, the looked for strenght and greatness instead.

>they're kind of batshit insane but that's not a mental illness

What's your definition of insane and how does it differ from your definition of mentally ill?

>I literally have no control over the fact that I am attracted to children and animals,

Okay

>if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault

False.

>you need to change to facility me, not the other way around.

Why?

>an act which denies natural human procreation is harmful to no one

I agree per se

>Sure, tell that to your whole family tree and literally every single person who struggled tooth and nail to survive just so you could enjoy some gay buttsex without judgement

What's the point in that?

>Sex with an animal is literally harmful to no one as well, yet it's still illegal.

You can't gain consent from an animal. Unless you want to be the bottom, but then you might die like some horse fuckers have.

>how is it even a possibility to outlaw certain aspects of human nature which are literally, in your words, uncontrollable.

The desire might be 'uncontrollable' but the act (which is the illegal part) is completely controllable. We also get the desire to punch people when they're assholes but just because we can't suppress the desire doesn't mean that it should be ok to punch somebody. Anybody with a literally uncontrollable desire to fuck children is dangerous in the same way a person with a literally uncontrollable desire to punch people they don't like is.

But I didn't post . Reading comprehension.
>if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault
This is where you're misunderstanding everyone itt. If you lack the self-control to prevent yourself from carrying these actions out you deserve to be punished.

>denies natural human procreation
L M A O
Are condoms harmful? Should masturbation be illegal? No. "Not having babies" is not a morally reprehensible act. I'd also be willing to bet there were people in your family tree and mine, if we go back enough, that got some side-action from the same sex, but it is an incredibly silly argument for you to claim my ancestors would be ashamed of me or for me to say they'd approve. You're really reaching there. And, again, animals cannot say yes or no.
>Fucking faggot.
I'm a straight white male and not ashamed of that fact

I did not argue fuck all about sexuality being uncontrollable, you're conflating me with other posters.
Maybe all of those sexualities are hereditary. Where they come from is irrelevant to the conversation. Homosexuality allows two consenting adults to have sex. Pedophilia, necrophilia, and beastiality, if acted upon, violate the rights of others and are thereby immoral. That's all I'm arguing.

>You can't gain consent from an animal.

One must admit that there's a degree of hypocrisy in this when we regularly kill animals for food / enslave them for our amusement, but fucking them is a step too far in infringing their rights.

(you)

Good job. You are a simple, uneducated poof.

>sexuality is uncontrollable
>but only when referring to the completely controllable sexualities.

You are literally doing nothing.

This is how your logic goes.

IF you say you cannot control your sexuality (as you have) then you cannot control the fact that you are sexually attracted to animals, corpses and children + others.

Outlawing human nature is simply retarded, how can you outlaw something which people have literally no control over, that is illogical. Not drug users, who have a certain measure of control but choose to take the drugs, literally no control, none, 0 (ZERO).

You either believe human beings have no control over their human nature, or you enjoy living in a state where the government has set up rules against literally uncontrollable aspects of human nature (this man was born to be in jail).

Pick one.

I'm not the original guy, I just hopped on in for mild entertainment.

How can anything be outlawed when there is no free will?

Then being gay is a choice, see where I am going with this?

>Pedophilia, necrophilia, and beastiality, if acted upon, violate the rights of others and are thereby immoral. That's all I'm arguing.

What though? Corpses are dead, they have no rights, animals are the same. Your whole argument literally relies on the semantical meaning of a singular word being 'consent'.

>That's all I'm arguing.
All I am arguing is sexuality is completely controllable. You are getting way to deep into the nitty gritty, are you thinking I am actually serious in this argument and not being facetious?

You're really bad at reading, my dude
He said, and many others have said, that you can't control the attraction. The attraction is not illegal. You CAN control the actions that you take in response.
Drugs are (or can be) a self-destructive habit whose legal status is an entirely different debate with entirely different consequences.

>if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault, I was born this way,
You weren't born screwing a child. You were born with a harmful affinity that you can control (or if you have no willpower, you can simply get a castration).

>>an act which denies natural human procreation is harmful to no one
An act might have such effect only metaphorically, physically no harm is done. Besides, you imply that homosexuality is unnatural (therefore making it sound repulsive) while offering no support for that claim. You just call hetero sex natural, homo is implied unnatural and that's it, no actual reasoning.

>Sex with an animal is literally harmful to no one as well, yet it's still illegal.
It is harmful for the animal and it is very harmful for humanity when diseases spread from animals to humans. Because of furries we now have AIDS.

>On the other, those who want to change their gender take the decision of doing it, it's a product of their mind. It's not physical.
>implying your mind is not a physical object

Pedophilia is literally defined as
>sexual feelings directed towards children.

Not sexual 'actions' sexual 'feelings' meaning, by definition, the attraction itself is illegal. Here is another definition.

>Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children

Being attracted to children is a literal disorder. You are probably getting some weird pedi vibes from me, but you can see how I am just using this to express the retardation of another example, yeah?

kek

I'm interested in this topic. Is Szasz, and this book, the authority on this? Also, I have Foucault's History of Madness and I was wondering if it was worth sloggin through the 800 pages or if the abridged version, Madness and Civilization, will do?

Mental illness as a diagnosis only exists for insurance purposes, nothing more, nothing less.

>You weren't born screwing a man. You were born with a harmful affinity that you can control (or if you have no willpower, you can simply get a castration).

fifty

>you imply that homosexuality is unnatural (therefore making it sound repulsive) while offering no support for that claim
Nope, I said homosexuality doesn't result in the berth of a natural wild between the two participants. The rest is your own projection, senpai.

Again, there is literally nothing wrong with homosexuality, except the fact that more of then then not gay couples will not have naturally born children.

>It is harmful for the animal and it is very harmful for humanity when diseases spread from animals to humans. Because of furries we now have AIDS.

Kek, try again next time?

Paedophilia isn't illegal

They were eating the monkeys, not fucking them.

Chiller please leave

see . He's right. You have no control over your sexuality but you have control over your acts. Having sex wih children hurt them, because they are not sexually active like adults are. And they can't give you consent as they don't have a grown up mind and enough experience for it.

>I literally have no control over the fact that I am attracted to children and animals, if I act on those attractions, it's simply not my fault
That's where you're wrong. You can't help feeling that way but you can actually control what you are doing.

You know what I'm saying, stop acting dumb.

>Then being gay is a choice, see where I am going with this?
Being attracted to someone is not a choice, but you can decide to have sex with that person or not.

>All I am arguing is sexuality is completely controllable.
How? Explain yourself.

This is all well and good, except if you read the thread before posting you would know that attraction to children is by definition peadophilia and illegal, regardless of weather or not you take action on you attraction is besides the point, the attraction itself is termed a disorder and these people are expected to change.

Not homosexuals though.

How can you miss the point that hard?

>How? Explain yourself.

Can you seriously not into simple logic? All these pedophiles not having sex with children are explicitly controlling their sexuality. Same goes for those into animal sex and corpse sex, but not homosex.

>if you read the thread before posting you would know that attraction to children is by definition peadophilia and illegal
Did I say otherwise?

>All these pedophiles not having sex with children are explicitly controlling their sexuality.
They're controlling their acts, not their sexuality. Why can't you understand the difference?

Paedophillia isn't illegal

>you would know that attraction to children is by definition peadophilia and illegal, regardless of weather or not you take action on you attraction is besides the point

Where can you get locked up for this thought-crime? And I don't mean possession of child pornography, I mean getting jailed by mere virtue of attraction.

Because there is literally no difference except the difference you make.

Kek.

I literally have no idea what you are saying.

Nope but anyone diagnosed with pedophilia has ground to be committee dot an insane asylum.

>committee.aninsaneasylum

>Where can you get locked up for this thought-crime? And I don't mean possession of child pornography, I mean getting jailed by mere virtue of attraction.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_v._Hendricks

>was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court set forth procedures for the indefinite civil commitment of prisoners convicted of a sex offense whom the state deems dangerous due to a mental abnormality.

>Under Kansas's Sexually Violent Predator Act (Act), any person who, due to "mental abnormality" or "personality disorder", is likely to engage in "predatory acts of sexual violence" can be indefinitely confined.

Since 97.

You are sexually attracted by someone by thinking or looking at him/her => Sexuality

You decide to have sex with someone => Sexual act

Why can't you see the difference?

Because for the purpose of this argument, they have literally no meaning. Except for the one you give them.

Look, you are no longer arguing the point that homosexuals are not expected to change their sexual "attractions" yet a pedophile is, a gay will say "it's how I was born, how dare you expect me to change" yet a pedohile has literally nothing they can say and any arguing would likely result in being committed to an insane asylum, they are both sexual attractions, which according to you, are uncontrollable.

This has literally, nothing to do with acting on these sexual acts as I have said over and over again, that is why I have literally no idea what you are saying. I know what you are getting at, but it's been said before, it's so pointless to this argument, I have literally no idea how it fits, at all.

>homosexuals are not expected to change their sexual "attractions" yet a pedophile is
Of course, and it's normal because we don't want pedophiles harming our children. So we expect them to change even if we don't believe it is possible any other way than chemical castration.

We homosexuals can do as we please between us adults.

Yes, you are illogical retards.

Why do you put homosexuals in the same category as transexuals? Homosexuality is natural and occurs in other animal species. On the other hand, I have yet heard of a monkey who cuts off his penis and demands special pronouns.

Why do you say that?

Homosexuals aren't expected to change because there's no harm in two consenting adults having sex. People expect pedophiles to change their attraction or at the very least not act on it because it directly harms children. Haven't we been over this?

(not him)
Why does homosexuality being "natural" matter in anyway? I have nothing against gay people because they're not harming anybody if they're two consensual adults, so there's no reason for them to "change".

That's why I also don't understand why people react so bad towards trannies. There is no other cure (as of today) for gender dysphoria other than transitioning. And what about trans people that don't chop their genitals and don't demand special pronouns?

why am I finding these kind of threads on Veeky Forums?

are u all imbeciles?

Spook=\=construct

...

>mental illnesses are made up

And you people are trying to come off as intelligent.

>(((the mind)))

>I know that the concept of mental illness is a spook,

what a fucking pseud, i'm not even a stemfag but look into neuroscience you retard

Nice appeal to nature you retard.
Please use your head and think about all the things that humans do that has nothing to do with nature, we are not fucking animals who only live on instinct.

Please use your head and think about all the things that humans do that has something to do with nature, we have evolved from animals and we do have instinct.

Not that it answers your question, but I read a study showing that pedophiles have IQs of 70-80 on average and it supposes that their reason for being attracted to children is that they are mentally that much more infantile themselves. I'll see if I can dig it up after work.

...

>it's about chemistry.

Stopped reading right there.

i hear voices, how is that a spook m8

>homos are perfectly normal
>omg if you (only) like a 14-year-old girl your fucking SICKKKKKKKK

Why would a grown up have a relationship with an inexperienced and immature 14 years old?

You won't be able to have a real conversation with her because you'd be far more experienced than her in life. 14 years old are just boring and stupid.

Only manchildren might love it.

liking 14 year olds isn't paedophilia

Gays literally have parades where their dress makes an underground Halloween party look tame. People support this.

Try again.
My experience says otherwise. Try again.
(only) liking
And I didn't say 'pedophilia'

its not that "mental illnesses" are made up its that they are inherent in human nature

they're merely classified as abnormalities so as to encourage purging them from the world

kys pedo

>My experience says otherwise. Try again.
We can't change the laws because you managed to find one mature 14 years old. The large majority of young teenagers (12-15) can easily be influenced by adults due to their lack of experience in life, which is why we need laws to protect them.

So yeah, you find yourself a nice and mature 14 years old. Good for you. But it doesn't change anything.

I'm not one.
>laws should exist
I'm not speaking of maturity. Maturity is a meme.

Mental illness has nothing to do with one's thoughts and actions. There is nothing that sets the mentally "ill" apart from the "healthy" as far as qualia and material action. It is entirely based on one's ability (or lack thereof) to provide context and explain one's thoughts and actions in a way that one's society finds acceptable.

>I'm not speaking of maturity.
Yes you are but you just don't understand why we can't allow adults to have relationships with early teenagers. It's a matter of maturity.

>Maturity is a meme.
Suuuuure. I don't even know why I'm arguing with you.

>muh maturity meme
Maturity in the sense that you speak of it is most likely just 'muh bills' and 'muh one-night stands'.

My girl wasn't 'mature'.

>Maturity in the sense that you speak of it is most likely just 'muh bills'
No, I'm talking about relationships. For exemple, having enough experience to be able to say no to someone who might force you to do something you don't want to do.

>My girl wasn't 'mature'.
Alright buddy, you fucked an immature 14 years old. Good for you.

You do know that humans communicate non-verbally too, right? You're just looking for an excuse to disapprove.
>fucked
No I didn't.

yeah you are

>You do know that humans communicate non-verbally too, right?
Yes, you can say no non-verbally. Did I say otherwise?

Imposing statist nonsense because an error in communication is ridiculous. She has always had very obvious body language.

>She has always had very obvious body language.
Alright, maybe that one girl did. What's your point?

My point is that statism is not an answer.

Pedophilia is not a thought crime. Acting upon it is the crime.

For that one girl, maybe.

Statism is never an answer.

It is as long as we people live together.

No it isn't. Stop deluding yourself.

We don't let children consent for the same reason we don't let them make their own medical decisions or sign legally binding contracts.

Nothing magically happens at 18 and in a perfect world we would use apptitude testing to determine when someone can give consent. Some people would never pass the test and some people would pass it earlier. However because flawed testing, grading, and people exist that's not gonna happen. Instead we just put a time limit.

So for the folks who speak of "extremely mature 14 year olds". They're not the reason they can't give consent. It's the literal retard 15 year olds.

I say most of this as someone who did extensive volunteer work in the boys and girls club. I can't really see anyone who has done extensive work with children and young teenagers that even 1 in 100 has the mental capacity for informed consent.

As for animals? Shit man I don't care about animals. Do what ever the fuck you want to them. Don't spread monkey aids though.

>No it isn't.
For you.

>informed consent
A meme. I've also done plenty of work with kids. I've had a direct relationship with one as an adult.
For everyone.

Also for the original topic. What of the elderly, those with dementia and the like.

Personally I have diagnosed with a few things, decided to refuse medication and stopped going to the psychiatrist. She tried to get me to go back because it was "a showing of my extreme paranoia", but she can go fuck herself for trying to medicate me.

>A meme. I've also done plenty of work with kids. I've had a direct relationship with one as an adult.
A meme that protects children from folks like you for the most part. Like I said, some kids mature early, the vast majority do not. I would personally say most 18 year olds aren't mentally capable of consent.

'maturity' is also a meme. Stop reducing relationships to an object exchange.

>mental illness is a spook
Guy who works in mental health and suffers with anxiety, panic attacks and depression here.

It's not a spook.

>being against pedophilia is statist

You don't know what it is, so yes.