Chemistry Jobs?

ChemE rocks

Can I become a Petroleum Engineer with an EE degree? I don't want to do Chem E cause I keep hearing that job outlook and shit is worse than EE.

If I can't land a career as a Petro Engineer I wouldn't want to be stuck not finding a job as a Chem Engineer.

Biochem master-race reporting in.

Physics is the Hardest Pre-Med degree.

Physics -> Medical School

You can also get into Medical School with EE if you take the required (general, organic & bio-) chemistry courses.
Which may also satisfy a Minor (or Major) in Biomedical Engineering.

have you actually talked to anyone who majored in chemistry? it's a shitty field, jobs are hard to find and salaries are low even after your graduate degree. don't take my word for it, just read every single reddit thread on r/chemistry about relating to careers. also people in this thread recommending chem E don't know what they're talking about. chem E deals with production, processing in factories and power plants. study pharmacy.

read: Caltech

I have. Which is why I made this thread, because I realized that "le STEM for a career" might be a fucking meme outside of engineering and computer science. I do want to avoid the meme specialization spike organic, but other than that, I'm not sure with what to do at this point except maybe just stick with biomedical engineering.

I just don't understand how biotech could boom without good chemists. If there's a need for good chemical biologists, synthetic chemists, or material scientists in the private sector, I'll do it even if it means picking up analytical, computational, or other techniques. Machine learning seems like a great way to become useful too.

I think I could transfer to CalTech if I wanted to. Do they take retards from Harvard?

chemistry is redpilled but only if you avoid meme specializations

such as?

Biochem is the sports science of chemistry. You study both and become proficient and neither.

At*

bump

Some guy here said physchem is useless. Analytical sounds useful but boring.

A lot of people in organic don't seem to be having a good time either.

Honestly, I just want to know what are some flexible, well-paying STEM jobs that have SOMETHING to do with chemistry, even if you need to have some niche skills to make it valuable. Academia, biotech, medicine, pharmaceuticals, etc., it doesn't matter for me IMO.

you should know now that science careers in biotech and pharma are dead end jobs unless you have a PhD

>this is what high-schoolers believe
Keep getting meme'd while I do my folding calculations, faggot.

Is anything not a meme?

I got my BA in chemistry from a top 10 program a couple of weeks ago. Out of ~22 of us, only like 2 aren't going straight on to some form of grad school (mostly for MDs / PhDs but with a couple exceptions).

It's possible to go straight into industry, but from my experiences the jobs you'll get with a BA / BS are mostly technician based and not research based.

The hardest pre-med degree is the subject that you're worst in. It's also very dependent on your school's departments.

So I should be preparing for grad school is what you're saying? I currently have a 3.8 in-major GPA and a 3.5 total GPA at an Ivy League school, freshman year. Grades picked up second semester after getting my shit together and kicking my procrastination habit. Should I be worried about my GPA dropping any further?

Chemistry is pretty limited by itself.
Chemical engineering is where's at.

Yes, arts and or History majors.
They are not a meme, just plain shit.

It depends on your long term objectives. I thought about grad school as a freshman, then I joined a lab for a year and realized I didn't want to spend another decade doing research.

Research experience is generally speaking the most important thing for grad school, so I'd reach out to any research labs you find interesting asap. Hopefully this will also give you a feel of whether or not grad school is actually right for you. Obviously try to keep your GPA as high as possible too though, since having a high GPA is literally never a bad thing.

Also as a general word of caution, my chem GPA slipped from like 3.7 to

Which master program would lead to better job opportunities: biochem or bio and nanomaterials? (I'm in europe, if it makes any difference).

Fair enough. Thank you for the warning about p-chem et. al. A lot of people seem to share the same feelings, maybe I'll try to read up in advance. I'm also considering avoiding majoring in chemistry completely (or solely) and picking the most chem-related major that can get me a rewarding job in biotech or something.

O-Chem PhD with industry experience here...

Here's the thing. If you're smart AND very lucky, getting into the industry with a BS is just fine. You basically have a 5 year head start on PhD's to get into management-type roles. But again, you have to be smart and very lucky. Once you hit management you have no glass ceiling. However, if you don't get into management in the first 10 years after your BS, you'll be stuck in a dead end job forever.

Getting a PhD is the safer route, you're guaranteed a decent paying job in a field you love (otherwise you don't go into STEM, you go into business!). The problem is that those intrepid BS chemists that did make management roles could eventually or already outrank you, and then you have plebs for bosses. The Vice President of my company is a pleb, as is the site director, quality control director, and quality assurance director. Thankfully the CEO has a PhD, along with the director of R&D.

The problem with a PhD is you'll always feel like you're 5 years behind the curve (or longer if you don't finish in 5 years). The people at the top are usually business people and don't give a fuck that you could call yourself a doctor, they only care about revenue and getting as-cheap-as-possible labor.

Personally I like Organic Chemistry, especially process development. Right now I'm working on redevelopment of a chemical process to revalidate in a continuous flow process. Going from batch-to-batch processing to continuous. I also lead a number of DoE (design of experiment) studies that address edges of failure and process improvements. It's all very rewarding and I'm glad I stuck with O-Chem.

If you want my opinion on viable industrial PhD's, I'd suggest: Inorganic (focus ONLY on polymers), Organic (focus on either natural product synthesis or transition metal catalyzed reactions), or Physical (focus ONLY on materials science, like some NASA type shit or something).

How far will a MSc get you?

MSc is -2 years experience (yes, minus).

If you don't go the PhD route, consider getting an MBA while on the job. Make sure it's very visible that you're going back to get an MBA, it will help you fill management roles if they open up.

Thank you for the valuable information on the state of industry. Tbh it sounds like you do the roles of a chemical engineer. Was it easy switching into that role given your undergraduate in chemistry and graduate education in organic chemistry? Or did you have to learn it on your own?

Which specializations lead to jobs with the most flexibility without sacrificing income? What is income like in general? What should I be doing to maximize my competitiveness in the marketplace, should choose to want to go into the graduate school route?

Also, I forgot: what about biochemistry/synthetic chemistry/chemical biology (or whatever I should be calling it... the combination of all 3?)... is there much of an industrial market for that specialization?

Okay here goes... ChemE is a meme degree. They don't understand organic chemistry enough to make real process improvements. My current project is projected to take the cost-per-kilogram of a specific API from $63 to $3 which saves the company millions, and only because I'm an expert in transition metal catalyzed reactions. The ChemE's here do our bitch work like writing batch records, filling out deviation reports (i.e. when someone/something fucks up a cGMP process an investigation is opened), managing the reactor flow, and being the 'face' of manufacturing in general.

What sucks is that as the 'face' of manufacturing, when things go really well in the plant they're the ones who get the credit. When things go terrible, everyone's like "what the fuck is wrong with this chemistry!?". So the problem with my job is visibility, which I try to fix myself by saving fucking millions of dollars. Anyways... back to your questions.

The best route for a science-focused career is this: BS Chemistry from whatever university wherever (seriously it doesn't matter), PhD from an Ivy league school in NATURAL PRODUCT SYNTHESIS. The reason is simple, natural product synthesis was the ONLY field of synthesis back in the day, all those PhD's from back in the day that discovered blockbuster drugs are the presidents/CEO's/directors of R&D today - so they like to keep to their inner circle of natural products. Sucks because I was transition metals, and I'm smarter then most of the natural product guys.

Maybe good if you're extremely talented, but more likely the guys who focus on one of those fields will always be a step ahead of you.

Industry favors expertise and collaboration more then it favors a one-stop-shop. For example an expert in synthesis, an expert in biochemistry, and an expert in biology working together is overall more powerful then three experts in synthesis, biochemistry, and biology. The hybrid nature of that specialization dilutes your overall knowledge.

Having that specialization as a professor is completely fine though, you would just hire grad students and post-docs that fill the roles as experts in a respective field.

This. look on indeed. there are NO jobs besides lab bitch doing cgmp work.

if you actually managed to get a EE degree you wont be needing to get into med school to make money rofl.

There are NO jobs for chemistry majors. Its simply not rigorous enough

the things you learn in your lab courses are not really needed for employers..... complete meme. either work in a sigma-aldrich lab or go into masters -> phd -> teaching stuck in cycle.

Is organic chemistry being hard the biggest meme ever?

>Okay here goes... ChemE is a meme degree. They don't understand organic chemistry enough to make real process improvements. My current project is projected to take the cost-per-kilogram of a specific API from $63 to $3 which saves the company millions, and only because I'm an expert in transition metal catalyzed reactions. The ChemE's here do our bitch work like writing batch records, filling out deviation reports (i.e. when someone/something fucks up a cGMP process an investigation is opened), managing the reactor flow, and being the 'face' of manufacturing in general.
>What sucks is that as the 'face' of manufacturing, when things go really well in the plant they're the ones who get the credit. When things go terrible, everyone's like "what the fuck is wrong with this chemistry!?". So the problem with my job is visibility, which I try to fix myself by saving fucking millions of dollars. Anyways... back to your questions.
>The best route for a science-focused career is this: BS Chemistry from whatever university wherever (seriously it doesn't matter), PhD from an Ivy league school in NATURAL PRODUCT SYNTHESIS. The reason is simple, natural product synthesis was the ONLY field of synthesis back in the day, all those PhD's from back in the day that discovered blockbuster drugs are the presidents/CEO's/directors of R&D today - so they like to keep to their inner circle of natural products. Sucks because I was transition metals, and I'm smarter then most of the natural product guys.

You're fucking amazing, thank you for all of this food for thought. I guess I have a lot more research to do, but I now feel like I'm heading somewhere where I can finally make the most of my time.

Final question: what is the income like? I have to find a way to balance flexibility, passion, and income because family life is a priority for me.

Sorry, I also have another final question. What do you think about the market for chemistry PhDs in general? A lot of people seem to report that competition is high, openings are low, and pay is mediocre. Is it only a problem for PhDs with specializations that aren't valuable on the job market? Is it systemic and only the best connected and pedigreed get jobs? I'm not sure how I should proceed in a way that keeps my prospects stable.

Nobody has taken the Ivies seriously for at least the last decade, so probably not.

I would say upper-middle class out of your PhD, I would probably project my career to put me in the top 5% of earners in the next 15 years. Maybe never in the 1%, but that realm is mostly for the business world and I like science.

There is a problem though... Work-life balance is extremely hard to negotiate. In grad school the hours suck, like 12 hours per day 7 days a week at Ivy league schools. If you don't work that hard, you wont keep up. A lot of PhD's take that same lifestyle with them to the industry, and it ruins it for everyone else. I strive to work 40-45 hours a week, but it's hard when Xiong Mong will work 60-80 hours just because he doesn't care about his family (or maybe doesn't even have one).

The market is iffy. If you have a good PI, they'll find you a job. They have friends or alumni who can get you in. That's why it's extremely important, and I forgot to mention it earlier, that you NEVER pick a new professor as a PI. They have no connections. A new professor at Princeton is 100x worse then an old (famous/semifamous) professor at a no-name school.

Also should mention that many new PhD's will do post-doc work. This is okay, it's considered like kind-of-sort-of experience on an industrial level, but overall while you post-doc you should be working 12 hours a day and looking for jobs 6 hours a day. And never post-doc more then 1 year, ever.

Recent chemistry/mathematics graduate here. I was accepted into chemistry grad school for organometallic/inorganic at a top 10 program. Since accepting the offer, I've read countless anecdotes/articles about how getting a chemistry PhD sucks and doesn't really lead to great opportunities. If I'm being honest with myself, I don't really even like chemistry that much. However, I'm thinking that if I don't do it, I'll never amount to anything important in the world. Does anybody know of reputable/reasonable career paths for someone like me? (Hardmode: Don't want to work in business/management)

Also, OP, I would advise majoring in chemistry unless you're truly fascinated by it as it's not very general. If you do major in chemistry, try to pair it with computer science or a BS in math.

The MS program I'm looking at offers a specialization in bioinformatics. How are career prospects there/should I go for it?

why would you advise for majoring in chemistry if replicating your success means going to an ivy league...

Apparently there is a huge demand for bioinformaticians, I'd say it's a pretty good idea.

>tfw DNA folded over 1000 thousands cuts through brainlets like a hot knife to butter.

Chemistry major here.

Don't do it. Pay is low, finding a job is hard.

Plus you get normies asking if you work in a pharmacy 24/7. Not worth it.

Because I'm already at an Ivy caliber school and I asked for advice given my resources?

Do mat sci and go on to grad school

ChemE has a ded job market because pretty much all their fields are doing bad right now.

No, if you want to do petro you have to do Chem

Did you go to grad school?

It's such an obvious point even a high schooler can get it. Studying chemistry is like studying meta biology and if you transition over to biology afterwards you can learn everything fucking easily. Can't be said for the other way around. Biology is applied chemistry learn to be ok with it friend.

Hahahaha sitting in your mom's basement with 'folding@home' running doesn't count you god damn normie

He asked for the best possible route. I didn't go to an Ivy league school and as I posted I'm still relatively successful, especially for having a job I enjoy.

I went to a tier 1 school though, and my PI has 300+ publications, NIH grant money until he retires, and was/is a member of the scientific advisory board for where I got my job. Obviously Ivy league famous dudes have even more pull, and can get you into an even more comfortable position.

Also as I said, people get the wrong impression that a BS in Chemistry is worthless. It can get you a good job, and you can very quickly increase your worth if you're lucky and the right positions open up (assuming you have the chops to be a manager). I started working in industry with a BS, and was on track to move up quickly, but after 2 years the grad. school pull finally won out and I went back. I don't regret it at all, it's a very good decision to make (plus you get paid to be a grad student, so you can pay off loan debt if you're fiscally responsible). So I came out of grad school with no loan debt, a PhD, and a comfortable job. Not to bad.

Where are good chemistry jobs located throughout the USA, like the ones you've described? I seriously hope I don't have to live in California, Boston, or any other extremely liberal, extremely crowded, and extremely expensive urban areas.

I wouldn't mind an alternative to a BS in Chemistry that's oriented towards biotech, as long as I can still find some sort of useful chemistry in it. I always thought that biology was applied chemistry in practice, but it seems like the demand for pure chemists is low, and I don't really know of any other compromises or niches that could make me valuable.

I wonder if it would be possible for someone Double Major in ECE & ChemE (Electrical & Computer Engineering + Chemical Engineering)

But seems that doing that is very suicidal.

Wrt your second point, I understand what you're saying, but it's not necessarily the case.

Pharmaceutical companies looking to hire medicinal chemists will, more often than not, hire natural product/ total synthesis chemists - about as pure as it gets in ochem. There are plenty of 'medicinal chemists' available but at an early career stage their chemistry is just not up to scratch. They hire exceptional natural products chemists and anything else they need to learn can be learned on the job.

Will it help to have some sort of additional knowledge in biochemistry when pursuing the natural product specialization? What about having other niches such as machine learning and computational chemistry? Also, are you familiar with molecular engineering?

How's the job market for computational chemists? I hope the coding/computer math/whatever skills I am learning will let me jump ship and work in a bank or something if chemistry doesn't work out.

Honestly natural product synthesis is so difficult that you'd only have the time to be able to learn additional subjects at a rudimentary level.

Everything is a meme if you have the wrong attitude. I know people who are unemployment with Stem PhDs and I know liberal arts majors making millions in finance, it's about your inner game and not about your credentials.

>he did a chemistry degree and didn't plan on going to grad school
>his grad school research project doesn't involve some engineering skills / application

>I know liberal arts majors making millions in finance
Why? Because Favoritism / Nepotism

Liberal arts majors with "Rich Daddy, Mommy or Uncle" working at a Company owned by "Daddy or Uncle".

>he literally thinks the meme in pic related is true
Veeky Forums anno 2017, folks.

Analytical chemistry jobs are the most prevalent and accessible for chem grads.

If you do well at university, you'll be able to get into an analytical role at a big pharma company. From there, most doors will be open for you.

This is what I hate. Natural product synthesis is NOT hard, it's tedious. It was hard back in the day and it's perpetuated that it's hard by people that just assume it's still hard. What Phil Barron does is great, but that fucker and his little minions work 24/7 to just force chemistry out the door. It's just rats in a lab, no invention is occurring. The work they do is wonderful, don't get me wrong, but just looking at it you know that they just open a book to "stereoselective carbonyl reductions" and just go through the list until something sticks - and they do that for every step in their 30 step synthesis. Stuff like this has no parallel in industry.

Now what Buchwald, Hartwig, Sharpless, Grubbs, etc... do (not sure if any of these dudes have retired yet, but whatever) is invention - and they're not natural product guys. Industry is changing slowly as well, in 15-30 years only transition metal grads will find work in big pharma as the natural product generation is going to retire in that time.

>Industry is changing slowly as well, in 15-30 years only transition metal grads will find work in big pharma as the natural product generation is going to retire in that time.
Why would that be if they're retiring? Wouldn't that open more positions in natural product synthesis, not less?

>Thank you for the warning about p-chem et. al.

took pchem/qm earlier this year, i thought i was gonna fuck it up but i aced it and it got me a sweet summer job

my point is, if you like something go for it, pchem is tricky but just study

>I strive to work 40-45 hours a week, but it's hard when Xiong Mong will work 60-80 hours
then stop being a lazy fucking fatass

I'd rather slave for my children than slave for Schlomo. Nobody is working an effective 60-80 hours per week, these H1B dunces simply don't have lives and are playing office politics.

Is it realistic to be a chemist and be able to find employment in the Midwest or the South? I'd really like to find a comfy job in Nashville, Minneapolis, or somewhere else /comfy/. If it is literally impossible to find a job outside California, New York, or any other urbanized expensive hellhole, then I might as well go to med school.

There aren't enough "Company owned by Daddy or Uncle" existant for this to be as true for the reason liberal arts majors can make millions in finance. The way they get those jobs is much simpler and fucking stupid. The people who do the hiring and firing at IBs (where you can make millions) recruit almost purely off of the prestige of the school, then whether or not they like the person.

>be me
>chem. engineering Ba
>1st semester
>uni offers a 32 year old lecture note for organic chemistry studies
>it's written with a type writer
>black and white illustrations
>there are complete sentences missing because of the bad scanning

Chemfags please recommend me a book on organic chemistry.

...

Why are people using the term biochemistry as though it means biological chemistry? It's not the same thing.

This.
You beat me to it.

What's the difference then?

Natural product synthesis doesn't exist in industry, they just prefer that academic path for PhD's because all the top dogs were natural product chemists in grad school.

PhD guy here, I work in the midwest. You can get a job anywhere, there's just like 10x more jobs on the coasts.

What's the difference between biochemistry, biological chemistry, and chemical biology?

Also, why the fuck aren't they more integrated? Why should there be three different specializations over roughly the same subject area?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_biology

google is your friend, friend

I did Google it. I just don't get the need for a distinction. You'd think the same foundational knowledge would be consistent across these disciplines.

if you knock him out, he wins

bump

They're nearly identical, especially at undergrad level

Well then why am I getting berated?

What about a minor?

Honestly if you want to work in biotech I see several options:
Organic synthesis
Experimental biology
Engineering
CS/computational biology

If you choose one of the first two you better like the lab work.

What about research? How do you get into it?

What about computational chemistry and molecular engineering? If I go the safe route of analytical chemistry, is it feasible to switch between specializations later on?

Biochem and biological chemistry are synonyms for describing and investigating different chemical processes in organisms.

Chemical biology is probing these processes using bespoke organic molecules and is also described as chemical genetics. It's heavily ochem based.