1) They do not exist and life on Earth is unique in ways we don't understand yet. 2) The are already here.
I don't mean that they're in contact with us, I just mean that there are extrasolar objects in our system. There has to be if alien life can exist.
The galaxy is old enough where there has been billions of years where life, as we know it, is possible. Hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, and nitrogen have been common for a long long time.
Any intelligent species would come across the idea of the von Neumann probe. A self replicating explorer. With the investment of a single replicating probe, the galaxy can be explored in a few million years. Very short amount of time considering the age.
Either we're the first life to come up with that idea or there are already von Neumann probes in our system
3) Aliens destroyed them-selves like a way on which mankind going 4) Aliens are too far
Charles Mitchell
>3) Aliens destroyed them-selves like a way on which mankind going >4) Aliens are too far That's the magic of a von Neumann probe. All it takes is one. Even if 99% of species go extinct before reaching the ability to make such a probe, if just 1% makes it, then the galaxy will be filled with probes.
It's like bacteria. Kill 99% and in a few hours, you will still have a plate full of colonies.
And nothing is "too far away" when you're dealing with millions of years.
Leo Sanchez
Space is literally fuck hueg and attenuation is a massive bitch.
Also this unicorn fart fantasy that any aliens would even be space faring is retarded.
Elijah Perez
You're totally ignoring what I'm saying.
There have been billions of years where life is possible. It only takes a fraction of that to have a probe in every system.
It's like bacteria in a dish. All it takes is a single surviving individual
Charles Bell
5) No technological civilizations currently exist in parallel with our own 6) No technological civilization has managed to avoid extinction
Evan Bennett
You guys have a severe misunderstanding about how many planets there are in the Galaxy. There are millions. MILLIONS of Earth style worlds. And all it takes is one to get through the so called "Great Filter" in order to go all von Neumann.
The galaxy is old enough for that to happen hundreds of times over.
Does anyone here actually read posts or do they just read the first few lines and respond with their opinion, which has been long since set in concrete.
Luke Martinez
There are two huge conditional hookups: 1. The probability of a given habitable world developing a technological civilization is not less than 10^-24 2. The probability that pressure to colonize other worlds is naturally manifest in a given species.
Lincoln Murphy
>1. The probability of a given habitable world developing a technological civilization is not less than 10^-24 That's a ridiculously low probability. It's so low that it's almost 0.
>2. The probability that pressure to colonize other worlds is naturally manifest in a given species. It must be because the only way life develops is through having that inherent desire to spread. That's life's one common goal.
Jordan James
#2 usually manifests as "get pussy." "Construct the machines to colonize worlds" is a product of direct, conscious effort and engineering at a monumental scale as an absolute minimum. We have not found the national impetus to organize ourselves in a way that will get us permanently off this rock.
Dylan Evans
>We have not found the national impetus to organize ourselves in a way that will get us permanently off this rock. Not yet But soon
Every advanced aspect of our society so far has been extraneous to simple reproduction and yet we keep pushing the boundaries. Why do we even have wheels and tools more advanced than a rock?
Handaxes and fire would have been enough to conquer the globe. But the path that set us down becoming intelligent has become run away.
Jaxon Reed
The next question is about what's harder: 1. Building Von-Neumann Machines 2. Controlling Von-Neumann Machines 3. Conceiving of Von-Neumann Machines 4. Finding or terraforming desirable worlds to colonize with said Von-Neumann Machines 5. Building orbital ringworlds 6. Having enough time and willpower to actually follow a path of runaway technological development to fruition
Easton Hall
Re, point #6: Advanced technologies and ideas don't just happen. They are the product of concerted effort to create something better and preserve what we know. Advanced technologies (not advanced by our standards, but for their times) have been created and lost because a conscious effort was not made to preserve them.
Jaxon Torres
>1. Just a bit more advanced than we are now. We are very close to it. >2. Control? That defeats the purpose. >3. It's a 50 year old idea already. >4. Colonize? Why bother? I mean yeah you can with a probe that carries embryos and shit. But you don't even need to do that. >5. SUPER hard, far more advanced than a replicating probe. >6. We've been on that path since fire. So would any species that develops metal working
Blake Ramirez
All of these by choice, by happenstance, and/or sheer genius. We do not have an idea of what the average might be, much like we don't know what the rate of life is, because we're working with a sample size of one.
Ethan Young
True But like I said in my opening statement, the building blocks of life are exceedingly common (unless there is an X factor that we haven't discovered).
There 10s of millions of Earths for billions of years. Roll those dice.
Connor Evans
>2) The are already here. Pluto was discovered in 1930. Its very possible all kinds of alien space probes are out there in our solar system. We don't have the technology to even know for sure.
Benjamin Rivera
Yep That's my point.
There is a probe here. And we just haven't spotted it yet
I mean, if it has a low albedo (as it should if it's absorbing light) and it has a small size (who needs a probe greater than few km), how would we even see it?
Tyler Davis
Humans have gone to how many other solar systems?
Why do you think aliens have such superior tech that that could go to enough solar systems to even give us the chance to detect their probes? Let alone our own solar system.
Colton Reed
>Why do you think aliens have such superior tech that that could go to enough solar systems Because time
>detect their probes No. Not yet They are there But we can't detect it.
Evan Green
>There has to be if alien life can exist. Not really, that's the point, we have no idea. There could be some imperative the dictates that life only arises like 2-3 times per galaxy.
Nathaniel Young
Why do you assume that ayy lmaos want to go to every system? Their ways of thinking might be completely foreign to us. They might study a few systems and then just say fuck it and focus on their anime waifus
Luke Nguyen
>You're totally ignoring what I'm saying.
Space is literally fuck hueg and attenuation is a massive bitch.
Also this unicorn fart fantasy that any aliens would even be space faring is retarded.
Levi Cooper
UFOs are not an uncommon sighting. Youtube is full of videos, radar reports, military, official, pilot and astronaut testimonials. People don't take it seriously now but with the advent of space tourism it will become less of a controversial subject.
Liam Torres
>There has to be if alien life can exist. Jesus OP. Your last thread was a complete disaster, Why do you keep coming back to be mocked and ridiculed?
>Hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, and nitrogen have been common for a long long time.
Oxygen, carbon, and nitrogen are the product of stellar fusion. You need a few generations of stars before you get planets like Earth.
Jeremiah Wood
>With the investment of a single replicating probe, the galaxy can be explored in a few million years. At Voyager speeds, you'd need over a billion years to reach the farthest stars in the galaxy. You can't send signals from the other side of the galaxy directly. And even if you could, you'd have 70,000 year old intel that would take you million, if not billions of years top act on.
There's really no practical value to von Neumann probes.
Justin Morgan
>or there are already von Neumann probes in our system There's no guarantee they'd stick around, even assuming they were ever here.
Nolan Bailey
>if just 1% makes it, then the galaxy will be filled with probes. First, there's no guarantee even 1% will build them. Second, you can't be sure there are at least 100 civilizations that already possess the ability to make them. Wait, "had" the ability millions, or hundreds of millions of years ago. Lastly, there's no telling if someone is hunting down and destroying the probes.
Connor Fisher
>MILLIONS of Earth style worlds. [citation needed] Almost all the stars in the galaxy are in the core, and subject to nearby supernova often enough that any given star going billions of years without being sterilized must surely be extremely rare. Even out here in the stellar suburbs, where we've discovered thousands of exoplanets, only 13 fall into the conservative habitable zone. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets#List_of_exoplanets_in_the_conservative_habitable_zone
Grayson Fisher
>von Neumann probe This
And see Sagan's response.
Alexander Brooks
I think it's more in the lines we were put here by aliens to set up some kind of colony. In other words *we* are the probes. If I told you an alien civilization sends nano technology to far away planets in a way that if the planet is suitable to the aliens for a base the nano drones spread and are programmed to evolve after each generation until they become AI robots who build infrastructure you would think this could make a good plot for a sci fi movie but if I told you the first forms of life on Earth were the nano probes and we are the AI robots the probe has evolved into, you'd not believe me. Think about it. I think there's a good chance at least 10% of all species on Earth (including the first ones and everything between those and humans, the 90% being just unexpected genetic mutations) were purposefully put here on Earth to colonize this planet or build some sort of infrastructure. I think at one point we will be done with this and that's when aliens come down from the sky and say "your money and infrastructure have been useful... till now".
Ryan Kelly
When people still think we are unique.
Julian Howard
Absolute trash, we know this from having been visited
Zachary Cook
That would mean some other alien life form is trying to prevent us from detecting.
Michael Hughes
>We're early to the party, not late.
>Absolute trash, we know this from having been visited
Even if you could prove we have been visited, the articles just claim we're in the earliest 8%, not that we're the first/only habitable world in the galaxy.
>That would mean some other alien life form is trying to prevent us from detecting. What would mean "some other alien life form is trying to prevent us from detecting."???? The idea that one or more civilizations might be hunting down the probes??? Are you really so vain you honestly think our own ignorance is the only possible cause for that course of action? What if some civilization is hunting them down to keep them from fulfilling their purpose? Or maybe they're capturing them to scrap them for parts. Or maybe they're hunting them for sport. Or maybe a million other reasons that have nothing to do with us?
Nathaniel Morris
>if it has a low albedo (as it should if it's absorbing light) and it has a small size (who needs a probe greater than few km), how would we even see it?
If anybody IS making these things (which I sincerely doubt), they'd want to make them very stealthy. They show up in a system (like ours) and start gathering local resources, and that's likely to be seen as hostile by any potential locals (like us). And if they move any faster than a crawl, those resources must surely involve enough energy to pose a serious threat to any local planetary civilization. But let's say our hypothetical aliens just don't care about the probe being seen as hostile? Well they still probably don't want the locals to capture one, and reverse-engineer it to get the technology involved.
