Do top scientists and people like Elon Musk genuinely believe climate change is caused by humans?

>as the sun gets older it also gets hotter
>global temperatures are rising

If only we could figure out what's going on!

>nobody gives a shit though, can't wait for all the libshit coastal cities to be flooded as they're the ones producing the most pollution anyways
>We don't even produce more CO2 than cows fart methane, so if you're going to cut down on CO2 emissions you might as well start the cowlocaust
>These people aren't underage

Why is it that uneducated simple people in Europe have no problem understanding climate change but even fucking engineers in the US have a problem with climate change?

Cannot you just put your biases aside and be intellectually honest to yourself at least? How fucking hard is that?

My grandpa is an illiterate farmer. Nobody ever told him about climate change but he is 70 years old and he came up with his observations entirely on his own and was pleased to find out that he was correct when I informed him of the causes he found them to be entirely plausible (and he's not easily convinced). Now sure he didn't check the climate change scientific findings on his own but that's now the point. You're not supposed to do that. You're just supposed to apply some minimal amount of critical thinking and common sense.

Nobody expects you to go rummaging through a century of climate data to come up with your own opinion. You just need to figure out that you're just too much of a fucking pussy to accept that your world view is incompatible with reality.

I'm not sure if your problem is some fanatical reverence to the "free market" or whatever else but none of that shit changes the simple fact that anthropological climate change is the reality and it comes with a cost and you will bear that cost whether you like it or not.

>as the sun gets older it also gets hotter
No, it's the exact opposite. Is this board filled with brainlets and tinfoil conspiraceeeyy retards?

>Why is it that uneducated simple people in Europe have no problem understanding climate change but even fucking engineers in the US have a problem with climate change?
Because Americans are ignorant and full of themselves. It's in their culture, they are raised that way.

Indeed, it's the same as flat earth.

> top scientists
>Elon Musk

I stopped reading here

Seems like you're the retard. It gets hotter then turns into a red giant. Only then it turns into a white dwarf which would be cooler than the sun, but not before.

>Top scientists and people like elon musk

Red giants are red for a reason. And white dwars are way hotter than our sun is currently, they are white for a reason.

You did not explain why the ice caps of Mars and the ice on Europa is melting. For all I care you're pulling this "we can actually measure the changes in the suns output" from your ass. I don't know what's so hard about Googling the key words of a news article or scientific article that proves your point, unless you expect me to do it for you.

>imagine it's hot as fuck in your house on a hot summer day. you go to the thermostat and find out someone turned the heat on. you try to turn it off, but your retarded roommate stops you, citing the outside temperature and also arguing that it's hot in some other peoples' houses who might not have their furnace on.
This is ridiculous. You are comparing the ratio of heater-room to cars/factories-to Earth. In other words, it's like saying if you combine all the CO2 emitted by human technology post-1800s would be equivalent in mass, volume, potential energy output, or any other physical measure, related to Earth to any physical measure of a heater in a small room.

(will continue)

The core would be hotter but not the heat it gives off compared to the sun.

(cont)

Just look at this map. This is one of the most densely populated, most industrialized region of the entire world. You can see human settlements in a greyish color. Green stuff is forests, grasslands, etc. It doesn't take a genius to see there is way less CO2 producing areas than CO2 consuming areas - and again, this is one of the world's most populated, most industrialized areas, which means for most of the world, which is underdeveloped, there is even more green to grey -. This is not to mention how most photosynthesis happens on oceans, which cover 70% of the Earth's surface, and have way more algae than the Amazon rain forest has trees. Again, it doesn't take a genius to just look at these maps and question the narrative that humans are destroying the planet. You could comfortably put all of humanity in area roughly the size of Tunisia, maintaining the population density of Singapore, and the rest of the world would run wild with its CO2 consuming plants, algae, bacteria. I could go on forever. Cars and factories don't operate 24/7, when there are way more living beings that exhale CO2 24/7 than there are cars and factories. Earth has had so many climate changes in the past, remember snowball Earth? Yeah. Unless you believe cavemen were also significantly contributing to global warming with the invention of fire, that was something major that humans did not trigger.

>polite sage
You don't know what this means newfriend. Which isn't really surprising since you're posting /pol/ content out of the blue.

Look at Britain, 10,000 years ago it was covered in ice but gradually receded over the years and colonised by man, they didn't have cars back then.

Also, the luminosity would increase, but the temperature will stay the same for a couple of billion years. The rate of change is minimal though, so it does not have an impact on our climate. Contemporary solar activity and Milankovic cycles are way more relevant for Earth's climate.

Even Wikipedia says the sun will get hotter

Okay, I can see where this is going. Explain the very warm periods in the mezozoic then? The sun was colder back than, yet the global temperature was 10 or more kelvins higher than it is today? How come? The sun's minimal temperature change does not have an impact on the Earth's climate.

Yeah Britain's ice melted because man colonized it.
Mankind had to chop down trees to plant wheat, and it used fire to heat their food, which contributed to global warming significantly.
It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that there are climatic cycles with one extreme being cold and the other being hot, and we are right now between cold and hot, and are heading towards the hot part of this cycle.

The dinosaurs caused global warming. Like humans are right now. We must learn from the mistakes of the past.

Man colonised it because the ice melted you dimwit that's why they went their in the first place.

Explain climate change then before cars

>Contemporary solar activity and Milankovic cycles are way more relevant for Earth's climate.
I've already explained it. I should also add the the position of the continents is very important, since they influence the ocean currents around the world.

>Contemporary solar activity and Milankovic cycles are way more relevant for Earth's climate.
>implying shit on the scale of our entire planet and A FUCKING STAR is not thousands of times more relevant as factors to climate change to some CO2 produced by some cars by some people in some places of earth

It is, if we look at the changes in the global average temperature by more than 5 kelvins and in a relatively long periods of time (couple of 10.000 years). Global warming caused by humans is not that significant (in means of T change), but it takes place in a much shorter amount of time.

>but it takes place in a much shorter amount of time.
Which shouldn't come off as surprising since NASA could detect changes in Mars' ice caps as well. I mean, it hasn't been very long since NASA started monitoring that kind of stuff, after all, NASA started being a thing around the same time humans started making bigger efforts into monitoring weather. And suddenly Mars melts a lot of its ice, just like how suddenly we detect an increase in speed of climate change. Do you see what I mean?

I don't know anything about Martian global warming, and I've found no reliable sources or any scientific papers that can confirm your claim. You must have watched some YT video made by conspiraceeyy tards and you took it as a fact. Nevertheless, you can't compare climate on the Earth with Martian climate, those are two completely different athmospheres at completely different distance from the Sun. The Earth is also geologically active, and has different orbital propreties than Mars. Earth also has this chemical called water in abundance (in liquid and gas forms), while Mars does not.

>I don't know anything about Martian global warming, and I've found no reliable sources or any scientific papers that can confirm your claim
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/31/mars-also-undergoing-climate-change-ice-age-retrea/
science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/07aug_southpole

>Why is it that uneducated simple people in Europe have no problem understanding climate change but even fucking engineers in the US have a problem with climate change?

Because freedumb. America has always been a shithole, don't let the skyscrapers and high GDP fool you, they have a lot of rich people with influence, the rest of the people are literally a miserable collection of sheepish dumb shits.

>main stream media outlet
>another mainstream media outlet, but with a liberal bias
>nasa (literally hebrew for deception)
I said "reliable", not "unreliable".

Nobody disputes that the Earth has had its own temperature variations in the past. Your Washington Times excuse of a source says that the ice caps of Mars have changed over 370,000 years. Are you proposing that the sun has been heating significantly over the last 370,000 years and this is what's impacting earth? Because over the last century average global temperatures have changed by about 0.8 degrees Celsius. If such a change was present for hundreds of thousands of years, the variation would have been enormous and yet we don't see such enormous variation or consistent rise in temperature in any reconstruction whatsoever. It's up to you to prove that the Earth has been heating up for 370,000 years.
As for the TSI claim, see pic related. Notice how the TSI has stagnated since the 1960s and the Earth's warming has accelerated as a response.
You're attempting to use area as some silly proxy for carbon dioxide production. Just google atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations by year, you don't need some false estimate that assumes one unit of vegetated land consumes in carbon dioxide is comparable to what a unit of city or suburb produces. If that was the case, the concentrations wouldn't have been rising consistently

coal

yes they believe it
you cannot get that many people to agree to something they don't actually believe

Your NASA source is talking about seasons, as in the thing that changes during the year. You should read your sources before you post them.

Your Washington Times article, you should have read as well when you said

>I mean, it hasn't been very long since NASA started monitoring that kind of stuff, after all, NASA started being a thing around the same time humans started making bigger efforts into monitoring weather. And suddenly Mars melts a lot of its ice, just like how suddenly we detect an increase in speed of climate change. Do you see what I mean?
Your article says
>But the red planet also undergoes larger variations over thousands of years that result in “substantial shifts in the planet’s climate, including ice ages,” said the NASA Mars Exploration statement.

Ok. Let's just assume for one second climate change is real and man caused.
What do you propose we should do?
Go back to using horses for transportation?
Close all factories in the world?

Lets say Im Elon Musk

If I say theres no climate change, what products or services can I sell with that? tinfoil hats? That only would get me octatrized from the tech networks

But if we believe climate change exists, what can I do with that? Sell electric cars, solar panels,etc etc etc. Got it?

>people like Elon Musk
How many people do you suppose are "like" Elon Musk?

The solutions or lack thereof for anthropogenic global warming are outside the purview of the conversation, we're arguing its factual basis. If you want to make a thread about global warming avoidance strategies, I'll post on it. But here, don't change topics on a hard issue to address.

Yeah tons of Elons out there, of course oil and coal production don't make profits for any wealthy businessmen which is why no one lobbies for it

Nice trolling. The Nasa source talks about changes within seasons. And the articles barely mention the same ONE scientist that says climate change is not manmade. Nice job.

>Yeah tons of Elons out there, of course oil and coal production don't make profits for any wealthy businessmen which is why no one lobbies for it

Im Elon Musk

I didnt born into a oil company owner family, Im no part of the "old money"

How do I make money as an underdog? Screw the status quo, buy our revolutionary, green eco friendly products :^)

Its basically a battle between old and new money

>Its basically a battle between old and new money
Let's assume that it's as simple and ridiculous as you want it to be. Does this not also mean that the people you call "old money" have financial interests to be met, and as many if not more resources to allocate to sustaining their financial empires? Your "b-but Elon Musk!" excuse is just looking at one financial interest that disagrees with you and ignoring all the other interests that actually exist in the market.

>the libshit coastal cities
Corpus Christi, Galveston, Houston, Port Arthur?
Biloxi, Mobile, Pensacola, Panama City?
Jacksonville, Savannah, Charleston?

> Elon Musk
> Scientist
Musk Dropped Out Physics PhD so technically He hasn't a degree so He isn't a Physicist.

Musk's work is now more Engineer Manager than Scientist

Also remember that Rocket ""Science"" isn't technically Science. Rocket ""Science"" is basically Aerospace Engineering.

>THE WELL KNOWN FACT THE SUN
>IS CONSTANTLY GETTING BIGGER
>>in the last 4 billion years, the Sun has
>>barely grown by perhaps 20 percent at most
image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/ask/a11467.html

Thats the story of like the economic history in humanity, a group tries to take the the power and the other to mantain it.

Old money haves more money but you cant just buy peoples opinions, and these new guys in the game like Elon haves investors backing them that see where the trend is going.

What is your point? Just as people want no climate change and shill for that, some want it, its a battle of different groups, if you dont see the obvious climate change shilling thats going selling overpriced stuff then you're just as blind as a climate change denier.

Keep buying my electric cars goy! You are saving the earth!

...b-but muh freedumbs, muh demockery!
'Murikans are also easily played by the
corporate denialists who don't want to
shave a nickel off the bottom line.

Well, looks like prayer is the only thing left to do

Using more renewables and spitting out less CO2 would be a start

Please use the catalog and stop shitting up this slow board.

...

Gilliland (1981) found evidence for a decrease in diameter of 0.01% per century:
adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1981ApJ...248.1144G
...which was disputed by Sveshnikov (2002) to be observational error:
adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2002AstL...28..115S

Sure, there are plenty of people with interests who espouse those interests. That doesn't mean one group is the better shill because the solid evidence (i.e. the one that isn't presented by business majors with blogs on the internet and a small minority of fringe climatologists) happens to line up with it doesn't discredit the evidence. As I pointed out earlier, there are holes in the argument you've come to make oh-so-proudly to sci, fill them in or save yourself the embarrassment of continuing to whine for Elon Musk when the industries that profit from the extraction, refinement and use of fossil fuels make the whole laughable "green industry" look minuscule.

Oh and, to illustrate the retardation of your claim: Keep buying Ford F150s goy! Climatologists are lying to you!

meant to cite