Race doesn't exist because Veeky Forums told me so

>Even if race is real,

probaly because for some reason you people can
never agree on the definitions of anything and so
end up flaming eachother because you have no
idea what the other guy is talking about.

Genocide of amerindians.

America belongs to the amerindians. You have to go back to europe, subhuman.

Incas were superior to europeans.

Prepare your luggage.

>niggers, taco niggers, sand niggers and Asians being any less guilty than whites when it comes to torture and violence
Good one

Race only exists as a label and has no genetic or scientific definition.

The only fallback deniers have is that "science is a conspiracy!" and "everyone is being censored!" which is the usual right wing science denial.

Hi /pol/ shitposter

>America belongs to the amerindians.

a person typed this

>Race only exists as a label and has no genetic or scientific definition.

hot take, vry tru of course

>Bone Marrow Transplants: When Race Is an Issue
content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1993074,00.html

races are neat distinct categories dont exist, however not even most racists think like that

human biodiversity does exist and denial of this fact due to ideological reasons is an issue

>human biodiversity does exist and denial of this fact due to ideological reasons is a strawman
FTFY

I doubt even the most rainbow-haired of SJWs deny biodiversity exists. Instead, their argument is that it shouldn't be acted on.
Just like the first amendment doesn't pretend religion doesn't exist, instead it requires the government not treat people differently based on which retarded-ass "man in the sky" story they subscribe to.

I guess europe belongs to mudslimes and africans then

yeah and spics will get all the nobel prizes

>Native Americans
If you're unironically a racist, how do you justify them being more intelligent than Europeans?

>race doesn't exist
>people can be racist, people can be discriminated based on race, which doesn't exist
what does modern left mean by this?

people like this share this board with you

There's a difference between race existing and saying race exists, which causes social harm, you autistic shithead.

>stupid people saying something exists me and that thing exist
Rly mks u tnk

Race exists, but it is about as scientific as say nationality or MBTI personality. Sure if you can find genetic differences between different countries, but the boundaries themselves are not scientific. They are defined by us based on cultural differences and political boundaries.

No one is denying that race exists. What we are saying is that race is created by us based on superficial features and geographical location. You can think of race as a sort of nationality based on continents rather than countries. Different countries view races differently.

Historically, race has always been changing. Back then, Irish people weren't even considered white. You can easily search for propaganda posters against the Irish on the web.

Now, whether the genetic differences between peoples is enough to treat them differently is up for debate. But it is not a scientific debate, it is an ethical one. If you want, you can discuss this topic on

>stopped reading right there

Race doesn't exist because I changed the definition of the word to something else

Car insurance is a useful construct. Race isn't. Ethnicity can be.

>Race isn't a useful construct
proof?

just saying that the boundaries for colloquial terms like "white" or "black" is non-scientific or arbitrary doesn't do anything to discount the body of scientific evidence for significant average differences between races.

for instance
>Factor Analysis of Population Allele Frequencies as a Simple, Novel Method of Detecting Signals of Recent Polygenic Selection: The Example of Educational Attainment and IQ.

>Two single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) whose associations with intelligence seem to be robust because they have been replicated in several independent studies were chosen as representative of intelligence increasing alleles.

>East Asian populations (Japanese, Chinese) have the highest average frequency of beneficial alleles (39%), followed by Europeans (35.5%) and sub-Saharan Africans (16.4%).

ibc7.org/article/journal_v.php?sid=312

it's a superficial argument to claim that this is not scientific

what you're saying is "where do you draw the line or what strict criteria do you use to decide whether someone is one race or another? It is arbitrary"

but this is a bit like saying "who decides when a number is "big" ? is 10 big? what about 50? or 100? or 200 ? it's arbitrary"

So yes, it is arbitrary what THRESHOLD humans might decide to call a number a big.
And similarly it is arbitrary which SET OF PEOPLE we designate as say "white". e.g. some might consider kurds as white, some might say that some kurds are white and others are not white, etc.)

HOWEVER just because the label "big" or "white" is arbitrary as to where you decide to draw the line DOES NOT MEAN that size itself is arbitrary.

So maybe one person might say 100 is big, but another person might say , no only numbers greater than 1000 are big numbers

BUT IT IS A FACT that 1000 is bigger than 100. so the threshold is arbitrary and decided by humans, but size itself is not arbitrary.

And similarly, the colloquial term "white" is arbitrary , but the degree of relatedness of different populations is not arbitrary.
So one person might say "algerians are white" or "algerians are not white" , but you can definitely take a the DNA from a bunch of algerians and conclude that as a population they are much more closely related to europeans than they are to subsaharan africans

this image shows these genetic distance calculations.

now ok , we've demonstrated that, but does that really mean that races EXIST?

well that's easy, does any clustering exist?

what's a clustering? let's say you have a totally bounded high dimensional space and you randomly (uniform distribution) place say 2 billion dots in that high dimensional space.
are there any clusters there?
Well by the law of large numbers, almost certainly not. it would look just like noise.

Now imagine that you placed another 2 billion dots such that they distributed with a very low-variance normal distribution centered around some point of the space.

And you place another 2 billion dots in a similar fashion centered around a far away point of the space.

are there clusters now? Yes, because clearly you'll be able to see the lots of the dots clumped up around the two points.

even though there are lots of dots in the middle in between the two clusters, the clusters tehmselves still exist. they still describe some important feature of the data distribution.

We have the exact same thing here we can see clusters of different populations formed.
unsupervised clustering algorithms like Expectation maximisation or density based clustering would definitely be able to pick up clusters for the east asian or what used to be called "mongoloid" populations and the cluster for people that used to be called "caucasoid".

pretty amazing that people 150 years ago, before any genetics, were able to so accurately guess that indians were much more related to europeans than east asians just from looking at their facial features

So actually people's old fashioned idea of there being a mongoloid race and a caucasoid race maps pretty damn well to clusters supported by genetics.

as for the "negroid race" however, there is a lot more distance between different subsaharan african populations because people have been living in S.S. africa for so much longer than other continents of the world, so you would notget clustering.

>race has no genetic or scientific definition
Good luck with your humanities degree

>race is created by us based on superficial features and geographical location
By this logic no scientific classifications really exist as they are all created by us

>You torture the world for thousands of years, you get tortured back

I wasn't even there, I tortured nobody

species are literally a social construct

yeah but the clusters are based on arbitrary labels. you can pretty much produce any set of clusters you want. you have to predefine the clusters. the point is that the racial labels are somewhat arbitrary, imperfect and also very imprecise. obviously theres nothing wrong with calling someone black or asian but if you are studying human biology in populations or things like disease, theres probably better ways to do it than those labels

You can classify humans, but that classification will be based on genetics and ancestry. Biologists don't really deal with genetic differences among humans. These are studied by anthropologists instead, and they use the term "population" instead of "race".

If you tried to divide humans into genetic clusters based on similarity, they do NO produce what is commonly called race, and those divisions are mostly arbitrary, and only really map the human migration out of Africa.

>You torture the world for thousands of years, you get tortured back.
So when does it become whitey's turn again?

@9013740

>white people are responsible for the actions of their ancestors
>coloreds are not responsible for the shit they do today
>this is what liberals seriously believe

>>>twitter

>Fst distances far bellow 0.01
hahahahaha

>I don't know what a liberal is because my political knowledge is 100% /pol/ shitposting

You're spouting bullshit. It's actually well known that because of large scale interbreeding, and because clustering of genetics between populaitons was almost entirely caused by founder effects as we left Africa, as well as small amounts of drift, that trying to cluster people into what we call race is impossible because the genetic clustering doesn't line up.

web.stanford.edu/group/rosenberglab/papers/popstruct.pdf

>Veeky Forums told me

That's how /pol/tards think. They can't refute facts or reality, so they attack other people that believe in facts and reality.

>Me and everyone who agrees with me believe in facts and reality. Every one else is dealing in lies and fantasy.
>I guess you could say we have a monopoly on truth.

>can't deal with reality
>raid other boards, shitpost, and mock people

this

you cannot realistically believe in evolution and the lack of biological differences between races.

It's a social construct like dog breeds. It's a spook.

le upboat!!

>human biodiversity does exist and denial of this fact due to ideological reasons is an issue
No one denies that fact, except morons who believe races are separate species/subspecies.
> races are neat distinct categories dont exist, however not even most racists think like that
Races are distinct, discrete categories. That's implicit to the definition of a race, and as others have pointed out, is not supported by science. Racists adapt to this by saying "You're X% this race and Y% that race" but at that point it's just retarded hairsplitting to fit your erroneous categories into a mold that's consistent with observation.

At the end of the post?

Race is not real. it's an abstract concept of non-real entities.
SPOOOP

This is how smart /pol/ is. Take a step back and realize that you are arguing with someone who genuinely thinks this is an intelligent thing to say.

If race doesn't exist, neither does racism

...

If ghosts don't exist neither does fear of ghosts.

Holy fuck the obvious baiting is real.

false equivalency. it should be "If ghosts don't exist neither does prejudice against ghosts."

I think the post you replied to was a bait post (or at least I hope it was)

> you can pretty much produce any set of clusters you want
>you have to predefine the clusters.
these claims are both wrong.

clustering is an unsupervised process.
>if you are studying human biology in populations or things like disease, theres probably better ways to do it than those labels
That depends actually. If it's possible to get more detailed genetic or ancestral information then that is beneficial, but in a medical context there might not be time for that when performing a diagnosis and so self-reported or superficially observed race becomes a valuable piece of information.

what the most likely explanation for a particular set of symptoms is could easily differ based on whether the patient is black or white for example.

>race is real

I know this is a troll, but I don't understand why the janitors and mods don't keep this shit contained to the non-worksafe boards at least.

I've been on Veeky Forums a lot longer than Veeky Forums has even been around. I really enjoy the variety of perspectives and anonymous posting. Unfortunately stormfront shit has had a lot more popularity in the past... 2-3? years. I honestly believe it is ruining this website by driving away people who aren't cuckold fetishists. The variety that would be shunned on reddit or a regular forum is what made this website what it is, and I've been here so long that it does suck to watch that side slowly die.

Veeky Forums has always been full of assholes and aspies. But, it at least used to be fun or stupid or... different. Stormfront stuff is always the same shit. Here's this black guy that raped and murdered this swedish girl and this is a picture of her body "haha what a dumb nigger-lover" just over. and over. and OVER. It's cancer. The fucking bizarre part is that I've seen some of the people who say these things non-anonymously on reddit and stuff and they're actually not all white men. They're like half white men, half asians and indians (which does explain the fixation on black dick size, honestly).

Like dude, I understand the tingly dick from a group of aspies shitting on someone who they don't like. But for the most part, other boards keep it under control because they have their fun elsewhere. lolcow's chan for CGL vendettas for example. Why should pol be allowed to infect boards like this while cgl has had their lolcow threads deleted for years on the basis of staying on-topic?

And before anyone says "well it's Veeky Forums muh free speech" - don't forget that moot deleted r9k for a period of time (my personal favorite board) because of comparatively tame anti-woman environment. Obviously banning stormfront from Veeky Forums or deleting pol isn't the right answer. But why the hell can't you keep it on /pol/? Your victim complex isn't science.

can you at least give a tl;dr if you're going to write 5 paragraphs?

tl;dr /pol/ is basically given a free pass to take over other boards. The mods delete namefags from r9k and lolcow threads from cgl, but shit like this stays up. It's cancer.

The genes don't line up, and people from the same lineages don't have anything in common. People from mixed lineages don't have mixed genes. Cluster, social constuct, semantics, nothing is in common with anything. Yadda yadda, biologists don't do racial stuff, that's for witch doctors er, I mean anthropologists. It's harmful to society, and also, ethics. /pol/ is too right on this, I'm in denial, stormies get out.
>Whole thread.

No. The point was that race doesn't have to exist in a biological sense for people to discriminate against those with different physical features. How is that difficult to understand?

If race doesn't exist then how do racists know who to be racist toward?

Physical features such as skin color.

So then take that as your working definition of race

what's the issue?

>You torture the world for thousands of years, you get tortured back.
You're getting tortured too, my jewish ally

In that case, would a child of black parents with white facial features that has albinism be white?

Albinism literally means white, so of course someone with albinism has white skin... though I don't see where they'd get white facial features from whatever that means

It amazes me, the sheer amount of intellectual dishonesty that race deniers engage in. Not only is it all based on a fallacy (the continuum fallacy), the entire point they make is incredibly dishonest and asinine. All they are trying to do is muddy the waters in an intellectually dishonest way so that they can keep denying certain genetic realities. I mean if people let this shit fly, then you can deny absolutely everything using similar logic

>hurr hurr you can't define a car! what is a car? Is a motorbike a car? Is a golf cart a car? The entire definition of a car is arbitrary, therefore cars don't exist and the entire field of engineering is bogus pseudoscience!!!! Carophobes bfto!!!!!

>hurr durr if I kill one jew is that a holocaust? But if I kill 6 million then it is? The entire definition of holocaust is arbitrary and therefore holocaust doesn't exist and didn't happen!!!! checkmate historians your entire field is bullshit!!!!

Also, just in case there is still any doubt about whether or not race is real, here is an article with plenty of citations about this issue: thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/human-race-are-real-race-is-a-valid-scientific-category/

most race deniers accept genetic differences in the human race however this should not be inherently tied to place or culture as all humans have a common descent. its the label they deny not the differences though.

race deniers should be denied as race label deniers.