If you had infinite time, could you teach a chimp anything that you can teach a human? Could a chimp learn to prove mathematical theorems or decipher extinct languages?
If you had infinite time, could you teach a chimp anything that you can teach a human...
Dylan Morales
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Zachary Morales
no and theres been a ton of studys about it. you can teach them sign language but afaik only a certain number of words
Leo Myers
The 'sentences' that they form also completely lack grammar, and are almost always up to human interpretation in terms of meaning. They learn what words mean and how to express them, not how to create meaningful sentences, and so will always be inferior in terms of language (considering we have an entire brain lobe associated with it).
Carter Nguyen
So if apes fundamentally can't learn something... does it mean we are fundamentally incapable of grasping some conceots too?
Owen Torres
> (considering we have an entire brain lobe associated with it).
This is actually fairly controversial, because humans who have had half their brain removed as seizure treatment (hemispherectomy) and lost the part of their brain that is usually considered the language center have still developed full language skills, including fluently speaking multiple languages.
Brody Brooks
Yes.
Daniel Morgan
that's why we want to make smarter humans
we can start with the Ashkenazim they already have 1000 years of accelerated intelligence evolution
Nolan Lewis
Perhaps. I know that the concept of true 4D (not including time) escapes most people, although I have heard that people eventually learn how to navigate 4D mazes (although I haven't seen these results myself). The difficulty in finding these concepts is discovering something that you don't understand and describing it; it's a paradox. Describe it to the point that it is understandable and it is no longer a limitation; and you cannot prove it if it is unable to be understood.
Noah Watson
What is the ape to man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just the same shall man be to the Superman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame.
Parker Watson
No, because after a while it will get tired of your shit, rip off your arm, and fuck your ass with it.
Adrian Rodriguez
No, no you can't
Zachary Fisher
god i see this turning into another race IQ nature-nurture thread.
James Murphy
I'm actually reading the book right now, convolited as fuck but really good.
Dominic Robinson
Nietzsche?
Alexander Lopez
wtf I want a 4D maze
Daniel Watson
no
Grayson Reed
Yes, you could train a chimp to carry out arbitrary computations by teaching them to implement pic related. Given enough time and space you could emulate a whole human mind by simulating it from the atoms up. Or more easily implement theorem proving algorithms.
Theorem proving is something a monkey might be able to do provided we structure things correctly. DARPA has structured theorem proving of computer programs as a game.
James Long
Yup, from Thus spoke Zarathustra
Julian Ramirez
Yes.
You could do anything with infinite time. That's what makes it infinite. But teaching the chimp to be human isn't the problem. It's getting infinte time.
It baffles me that a board with such intelligent people as Veeky Forums fail to grasp such simple concepts.
Carter Perry
your logic seems to suggest you can teach an ant to do it in infinite time.
Ryan Wilson
Bottlenose dolphins have been shown to recognize syntax
William Davis
why would that imply anything. we are different animals with different brains.
its not like a human is a leveled up ape
Robert Davis
source?
Logan Sanders
oh wow thats my uni kek
Kevin Perry
I love you and your shitposts BAB poster
Ryan Thomas
jew wish
>implying intelligence/curiosity is heritable not learned from observation, caused by necessity
Elijah Cook
You could. It would take changing the ant's genetic code at it's core, but we're already starting to do that with humans.
What makes you think we couldn't?
Evan Watson
im pretty sure you would have to change the code so much that its no longer an ant.
Joshua Rogers
If you buy a car, and over time replace every single part of it one by one, is it still the same car you started out with?
Sebastian Thompson
Well if we go by this route, the whole question of whether a chimp can do this becomes obselete...
Nolan Cook
If you buy a car, and change it so much that it now does something completely different, is it still a car?
This analogy makes more sense.
Levi Miller
No but an orangutan or a bonobo could, chimps are fucking stupid just because we share a common ancestor with them doesn't mean they're the smartest animals alive.
Ryan Richardson
Why do they assume that there are sections of the brain responsible for 'X'? Is it not equally likely that the neurons responsible for 'X' are randomly distributed around the brain?
You can argue for people doing EEG scans while telling people to think about shit, but that just doesn't seem like a very rigorous way to test, since every sense in the human body is associated with every other sense.
Adam Lopez
No. No other animal displays enough visual-spatial reasoning/working memory abilities to consider abstract things like mathematics or language.
Given an infinite amount of time, your best bet would be to breed some animal (perhaps an orangutan, or some sort of corvid) that is already above average in this area, and select for working memory/spatial processing.