Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with...

Does the series offer something other than plot and gore?

Not really. It is entertaining, though. Just watch the TV show if you have any interest, as the books will never be finished. The TV show will be done next year.

this meme is really taking off XD

take the bogpill

My own work involves a world containing anthromorphs and "Trueborn" human folk. The humans enslaved the anthros for thousands of years,but for the past 500 or so the anthros fought for and eventually attained civil rights,mainly through the mechanations of a magician class wielding a superior type of magic. Imagine our civil war if voodoo suddenly started working. The culmination of this war ended in an anticlimacs,with both sides too weary to go further. The stories are set a decade or so after this point,with both sides dealing with raw wounds,old grudges,new paradigms and a gloss of political correctness swabbed over all. Neither ex masters or ex slaves have clean hands,and to the children growing up,the grown-ups certainly have strange ideas about what is considered "people". Here is a recent episode involving this...

FMA 2003

Ahahaha fuck that is spot on.

...

I have wondered what happened to the Orcs actually.

Did they create different Orc tribes? A Orc Kingdom? Can Orcs plow the fields, can they create somewhat decent societies when they're not controlled by some evil? Are there even Orc women?

nvm

Found some info on it

'They would,' grunted Gorbag. 'We'll see. But anyway, if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What d'you say? – if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads, somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and no big bosses.'
'Ah!' said Shagrat. 'Like old times.'

It seems they've lived without being commanded by Sauron in the intermediate period.

The orcs are metaphors for the Mongols or Huns no?

According to Tolkien nothing in his books is an allegory ever

This makes me extremely uncomfortable. I can't really explain why, but it is very unsettling.

>At that sound the bent shape of the king sprang suddenly erect. Tall and proud he seemed again; and rising in his stirrups he cried in a loud voice, more clear than any there had ever heard a mortal man achieve before:

>Arise, arise, Riders of Théoden!
>Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
>spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
>a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
>Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!

>With that he seized a great horn from Guthláf his banner-bearer, and he blew such a blast upon it that it burst asunder. And straightway all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains.

>Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!

>Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Éomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first éored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore, but Théoden could not be overtaken. Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a god of old, even as Oromë the Great in the battle of the Valar when the world was young. His golden shield was uncovered, and lo! it shone like an image of the Sun, and the grass flamed into green about the white feet of his steed. For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them, and they fled, and died, and the hoofs of wrath rode over them. And then all the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even to the City.

GRRM can get fucked. The feelings that this invokes is far superior to reading about some bullshit political policy.

Thought all the orcs died when the ground collapsed on them

If you put it like that, not really. A bit of history, maybe, but altogether bastardized. If you're looking for muh lore and worldbuilding, it does an admirable job, with some plotlines in the past warranting their own spinoffs apparently. It also seems like casuals really like it just for the characters anyway, but the Lannisters are far and away the most interesting with a highlight probably being Jaime's development but the TV show manages to fuck that up

>The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

It's almost as if "fantasy" and "history" are two different words that signify different things.

It breaks my heart but this is true. I really did enjoy the series but the show to a dump on everything he built and he is responsible for it.

Where does westeros get its food from if winters take years?

That's covered a heap of times, if you'd bother to read the books or watch the show.

Winters take years, but so do summers, so they create massive stockpiles of food to last it out. Combine that with plenty of food sources still being available (animals don't just stop existing in winter, you can still fish), and that's how they get by.

What do the fucking deer and animals eat if the growth cycle of trees shuts down for years at a time? Can deer eat tree bark?

Also, some winters have brief moments when the weather gets milder(same is true for summer, they call it 'summer snows', if i'm not mistaken).

Now take a wild guess; which writer believes in soul?

youtube.com/watch?v=Ryy5U2mNTJU

He did say that he did it entirely for the money though. For so much money I would probably sell my work out as well my principals too.

REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

jews did grrm

#AIPAC
#PNAC

Narratives about ruling don't fit the genre Tolkien created, which is probably why Tolkien didn't spend any time on the subject.

The fact it doesn't fit seems proved by Martin's great difficulties in writing interestingly about ruling in the couple or three books where he's spent hundreds of pages expounding on the subject.

>principals
Back to school, underage.

I watched the show and they never adressed it afaik

Pretty sure they mention how they won't have enough food to feed the peasants a few times throughout the show, I think they're generally focused on not dying from some other dickhead first though.

Seriously though, did they genocide the orcs?

lol does he actually think he is a good writer, da phuc

The Orcs speak a language based on Turkish, I believe. They're clearly based around the uncivilized outsiders that are found at the edges of great civilizations.

I don't know where you saw that. But he based at least one form of elvish off of a mixture between Finnish and some romance language (I think it was Italian, but maybe Spanish).

Tolkien loved Finnish mythos. He admits this and says that several characters and themes in his books were knowingly or unknowingly taken from The Kalevala.

So orcs do not represent Fins.

Wow, idk how I read Turkish as Finnish. Whew

All good. Still interesting to read.

GRRM has better prose than Tolkien

I think Ramsay isn't supposed to be "pure evil" though. He comes across as that, but I think George was going for the whole "he's an unhinged product of his shitty environment and represents all the terrible shit that goes on in Westeros". It's not very well-executed, sure, but I always got that impression from Ramsay.

Then I have done my job! I mean to explore this strange set of circumstances my characters find themselves in with confronting volatile issues. Here is an episode where a surprising revelation is revealed by a so called ally,and in some ways is perfectly justified in her opinions...

Tolkien modeled the novels on scripture, not books of history. They are patently religious and pay little reference to strict, "realistic" history.

Holy fuck, is GRRM actually this stupid?

Orcs were born adults iirc.

that would make sense

extract great, point agreed with. picture ruined by this fucking horse leg. who ever saw a horse run like this?

Is this a webcomic?

HA! okay dude. I could barely get through the first book. It was good but some of it was wonky as fuck.

Since you asked...

www.jeremeyprickles.com

All fantasy fiction is grounded somewhat in reality. The elements that are fantasy usually follow certain rules (magic is limited by ability, power, artifacts, runes, spells, etc.) Elves are a racial group, not too different than other racial and ethnic minorities in real human societies.

To want to add realism to the actual living and structures of government and organization of societies within this new reality makes perfect sense. To make everything so massively simplistic is to avoid delving even an inch deep into some serious literary themes that could exist in this genre. I prefer adult fantasy over childish fairy tale fantasy.

Some people are just mentally ill. The Mountain is just an over-sized retard with very little empathy and was raised in a culture that promotes strength and the warrior mentality. He's not "evil" for its own sake, and he's a rare case of psychopathy in this world. Most people in this world care about something or someone else.

Will somebody tell me about this meme? I've seen it everywhere and I can't understand it.

No need to be wordy, a quick rundown would do.

>what was Hrothgar tax policy in Beowulf?
>why didn't Gunther establish universal health care in the Nibelungenlied?
>was King Arthur in favor of marriage equality?
>why didn't no one thought of establish a centralize justice system in Njals saga?

What a bunch of hacks through history.

Explain the bastard of Bolton

I dunno man, there's a lot of characters who do bad shit just because in that book. There's a few who do good stuff just because as well though, don't get me wrong, I think the Starks in general are meant to represent that.

Though I think it's good that he wrote most characters as more grey, bad with a purpose for want of a better term, because people aren't just good or bad.

yeah there are like a couple good characters and 1 or 2 pure evil characters and the rest are grey

to jeremy prickles, got a couple questions:

- i was diagnosed with autism. were you as well? i can feel a kindred spirit from your website. cool art. i rlly like it.

- i was wondering what was the purpose of you posting in this thread. i do not find any connection (for now) between your comic and grrm's statements. i am curious and i hope this does not offend.

bye for now. keep it weird .

Author still actually wrote her own fucking story, finished it, and it did get a more accurate reboot.

Why not just read historical fiction or study real history instead of dogshit "adult" fantasy?
I dont care how you dress your elves or how they fuck themselves, magical tree fairies are still childish.

>I prefer mature games for mature gamers like myself.

Considering that his books is feminist propaganda.

Yes.

The subject of the thread was world building,and all the little details authors gloss over after the Big Story is finished. A lot of the subject matter I encounter writing my webcomic involves forging a life after that Big Story is over,both sides of a long drawn out conflict exhausted from the fight and mixed feelings determined to Play Nice.

And,no I am not autistic. Why say that?

Somebody please post the "the more she drank the more she shat" except!

You know....Tolkien would slap the shit out of you for over analyzing his shit.

He always said, it's just a story, no allegory, or commentary on the real world is contained in it.

The Orc languages are agglutinative, like Turkish but that is where the similarities end. The whole orcs are based on Turks meme is a lie invented on Veeky Forums by people who don't like Turks.

>All fantasy fiction is grounded somewhat in reality.
I think you have let Tolkien's legacy warp your perception of his works. Tolkien wasn't writing fantasy in the way we think of it. His are heavily inspired by Anglo-Saxon and Norse texts, which themselves lack the realistic quality you are talking about. We don't hear about taxes or laws, or have a window into the world of slaves in Beowulf, but only an unimaginative pendant would actually care.

Ah, I saw this just after writer my previous thing. Pretty much this.

IRL the Turks were basically Orcs. Massive slavery based empire. Literally worse than Jeff Davis.

Let's play a game, Veeky Forums. Try to guess which ones are real quotes and which are fake quotes.

"Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water."

"The three men were erect. The sight of their arousal was arousing."

"Whilst you snored, I would lick your sons off my face and fingers one by one, all those pale sticky princes. You claimed your right, my lord, but in the darkness I would eat your heirs."

"Her loins ached from the urgency of his love making. It was a good ache."

"The ship groaned and growled beneath him like a constipated fat man straining to shit."

What are the tax policies in Westeros?

A bit too much like old-timey didactic play.

>"The three men were erect. The sight of their arousal was arousing."

no way that shit is real

Sounds like real life.

1) Real
2) Real
3) Fake
4) Real
5) Fake, I hope.

I have a bad feeling they're all real though.

Aren't they all real?

LOTR is first and foremost intrapersonal symbology, not political commentary.

Yes :)

>number two is real

Is this what people like to read? Who could read that without putting the book down in disgust?

all writers who want to deflect over-analyzing cunts say the same about their work!
But there always is a hidden reason why artists make art.
also, as readers we are in our right to over-analyze the shit out of Tolkien's work.

>lorefags

Tolkien also finished his series before he died. Until you can say the same of yourself, GRRM, I think it would be best to avoid criticism.

I have read these books and 1-4 are all real. I don't remember 5, but it wouldn't be surprising.

1) Daenerys with dysentery / possible miscarriage, abandoned in the Dothraki sea.

2) I think this is Asha?

3) Cersei mocking Robert for preventing him from getting her pregnant with his child while she slept with her brother.

4) Catelyn post-sex with Eddard. This one is just kind of sweet tho

5) I think is when Tyrion is crossing the sea in A Dance With Dragons? It's when he's being seasick.

fucking kek

The alt-right is full of nazi high priests, take the bog pill

Like pottery

>They call me Darkstar, I am the night

I...is that real?

Real life has "pure evil" characters, too.

If *everyone* was grey, equal parts black asnd white, then it wouldn't be very realistic, would it?

No, no, no. You can demand the impossible from the reader. But not the implausible.

The trees could have evolved to cope with that.

>Real life has "pure evil" characters, too.
No, it doesn't. This is a comforting lie.

Yes it does.

You'd think that "everyone has some good in them" would be the comforting lie.

Which it is.

No, the truth is that we are products of conditioning, social learning, and group dynamics. Pure evil is a comforting lie because it means that we can condemn others without considering the root cause of the problems that lead to their transgressions (social policy, childrearing, poverty, etc.).

We can pretend that people were just "evil" rather than try to improve our world - which is fucking hard work. It also involves admitting that the potential for evil is also in us, which is uncomfortable.

>hurp durp I stick to adult fiction where the detectives investigates multiple homicides a year
>totally not adult fantasy

I call and rise with Tolkien's strangely unpopulated areas between the civilized areas. (It's as if he intentionally didn't want to inject real politics in his world. Two countries sharing a border river find some modus vivendi on how to use the river. Water rights is one of the oldest subjects of politics.)

TL;DR: Yes, pure evil is possible.