There's no doubt that a plant based diet is optimal for health, but how much meat should one be eating, if any at all?

There's no doubt that a plant based diet is optimal for health, but how much meat should one be eating, if any at all?

I understand some nutrients (B12, creatine, carnitine come to mind) are only found in meat, but is it possible to supplement your way around this?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=x3yp0oTd1YA
knowyourmeme.com/memes/sopa-de-macaco-uma-delicia
yuki.la/int/74496103
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704
youtube.com/watch?v=HtpvsT5vGCg
amensda.org/
jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2604302
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longevity_in_Okinawa#Research
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Ear salmon and sardines
Beef, eggs, dairy etc are fine but not necessary

Teh fuck is an ear salmon?

Yes! It is totally possible.

Creatine and Carnitine are synthesized by the body and B12 comes from soil bacteria. I eat whole foods plant based and supplement with B12, D3, Iron, and Algae Omega 3's, DHA, and EPA.

It's very easy to stop eating meat altogether.

Eat*

>a plant based diet is optimal for health

>this is the peak of animeposter argumentation

Find me a single (1) research that shows replacing plant protein with animal protein in diet yielded health benefits.

Because there are bazillion that show reverse effect.

Plant based ≠ plants only. A plant based diet can have one serving of meat a day. IMO, I don't see why one would need more than a few ounces of meat per day.

What about the mercury in fish? Wouldn't a lifetime of eating store bought fish lead to complications?

>a few ounces of meat per day
You're sustaining those TMAO producing bacteria mate.
youtube.com/watch?v=x3yp0oTd1YA

Serval cats eat mostly Meat, just like most predators & carnivore animals.

You do realize you need choline for healthy memory, right?

There's enough in legumes\veggies. Cohort studies on vegans didn't show any memory loss.

Rare meat is delicious

Human meat is delicious!

すごい!

食べないで!

Brazilian Monkey Soup is DELICIOUS.
Sopa de Macaco Brazileiro é UMA DELÍCIA.
knowyourmeme.com/memes/sopa-de-macaco-uma-delicia
yuki.la/int/74496103

>食べないで下さい!
食べないよ!

I don't come to Veeky Forums often, but is it usually filled with this anime bullshit?

Gonna need some links

>but how much meat should one be eating, if any at all?
100-150g per day.

>complaining about anime on an anime imageboard

...

You limit the amount.
Look for seafood high in omega oils and protein, but low in heavy metals.

>eggs
eggs are just as bad as if you would smoke some 5 cigs

that being said, i will now make breakfast and eat 3 eggs...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies

>closed dataset on a creationist religious cult
>by the creationist religious cults' ((((university)))
>medical evangelism/veganism is part of the ideology
>religious cult owns vegan food companies that sell meat and dairy alternatives
Definitely no chance of bias there. Don't see any memory assessment methodology either

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704
>It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.

>including vegan
>nutritionally adequate

The one who should be worried about his brain's cognitive function is you buddy
youtube.com/watch?v=HtpvsT5vGCg

>There's enough in legumes\veggies.
No, there is not. It is almost impossible to get enough choline on a vegan diet unless eating an extremely restrictive dietary pattern, which is a fact that vegans don't like to talk about.

The turbo-quack Greger actually told people to avoid foods rich in choline, an essential nutrient. Maybe Greger isn't aware that a choline-deficient diet in pregnant women increases the risk of birth defects, and some men have phenotypes that require up to 750 mg of choline a day. A normal vegan diet rich in legumes and vegetables provides at most ~200mg of choline per 1000 calories.

Stop quoting that paper. If you actually read it, the paper says that vegans are iron-deficient, zinc-deficient, calcium-deficient, iodine-deficient and omega-3-deficient. That's the best evidence they could find to support their bias.

So why does it say that vegan diets are healthy when their own cited evidence clearly doesn't support that? Because the authors are all vegan, almost all of the reviewers were vegan, and because the American Dietetic Association was co-founded by vegetarian Adventists, who have a religious belief that animal products are unhealthy and that medical science should be actively infiltrated to promote these beliefs (Adventist Medical Evangelism, an organized branch of the church ~ amensda.org/ )

One of the authors, Levin, works for PCRM which is a front group for PETA.

Another author, Vesanto Melina, has written NINE books on veganism and vegetarianism, an obvious conflict of interest that was NOT declared.

The third author, Winston Craig, also sells books on vegetarianism and runs a website about the benefits of vegetarianism.

In conclusion. Vegans and adventists have religious and moral convictions that drive them to lie and deceive the public. You are dealing with literal lunatics who cannot be trusted to be honest about anything regarding the health effects of animal products or diets excluding them.

Not a scientific statement

They are all vegan and vegetarian because you have to be a retard not to become one once all the evidence sinks in.

>Stop quoting that paper.
What fucking paper? This is a position of the Academy. And you're hilarious for discrediting it just because you saw some vegetarians as co-founders.

>vegans are iron-deficient, zinc-deficient, calcium-deficient, iodine-deficient and omega-3-deficient
Link faggot.

Being a vegetarian alone is not good for your health. Humans evolved to eat fruits, nuts, vegetables, insects and meat. Humans are opportunists and the human body needs meet in the long run. Anyone who says otherwise is just saying it out of some ideological or religious stance.

Here's a question for you boy. What did humans eat before they invented the first spear?

...

You can hunt without spears.

Humans are opportunists. Humans are scavengers. Humans ate eggs. Humans would corner animals and capture them and eat them or make them fall off cliffs. Humans eat insects. Humans have the same diet as most monkeys and apes. similar lifestyle too.

You should only eat fish about twice a week.
Eggs are high in cholesterol and you should only eat 2-3 per week.

Eating chicken breasts is the best way to go.

Better for cardiovascular health.
Studies have been conducted and indicate that vegans can live 10-20 years longer than meat eaters.
That being said, I eat meat because I lift a lot of weights and it's very difficult to get all the protein necessary while not breaking the bank.

>beans somehow more expensive than meat

Incorrect

and lies

beans by itself is not a complete protein.
you have to mix it with a grain.
However, eating beans and rice alone will leave you deficient in micro-nutrients.
Also, if you're trying to gain muscle mass, you'll have to eat a shit load of beans, and they're full of carbs, so you MAY gain muscle, but you'll still be carrying extra fat on your body.

>carrying extra fat on your body
>from vegan diet
Dude what

>From all the corners of science and the problems it has, fucking nutritionits have it more difficult to answer simple questions regarding pur diet
Hacks. From what I read, if you have no major dietary issues , you should eat more veggies, reduce your red meat and pork intake, and do more exercise. But there's always some fag that tells me that if I eat a stake once in a blue moon I'm literally putting poison in me.

If your diet consists of mostly beans, you plateau at a certain stage.
If you're trying to get ripped, it can't happen.
If you want to lose a lot of muscle mass then being a vegan is for you.
I was vegan for a couple of years, and I hit a wall.
You can't gain enough muscle, and you can't lower your BMI to a certain stage.
Yeah you lose a lot of weight, but typically from being malnourished.

>If you're trying to get ripped, it can't happen.

>eat a stake once in a blue moon
Nobody says that. We are talking about regular meat intake.

Yeah you're not a monkey.
Primate's metabolic processes are vastly different to humans.
Try harder Jew.

What is regular meat intake then? Is fish and lean chicken not considered?

Humans are primates

Chimps aren't vegan and spend an amount of time doing intense exercise that is unsustainable and boring for modern humans

>Humans are primates
Humans theoretically evolved from primates.
ftfy

We're still primates. In the same way humans evolved from eukaryotes but are still eukaryotes

Like the same way your mother was a dumb cunt in her 20s.

Your post fails in both repeating the style of my explanation and in insulting me. You should take a break from Veeky Forums

your post shows that you have autism.
Go outside more.

What an embarrassing post. This is Veeky Forums, not /pol/ or Veeky Forums. The scope here is the scientific method and not authoritative appeals to politically motivated "position statements" that function solely as narrative opinion pieces.

You're shifting goalposts, attacking my person, and using a youtube video by a HSUS director as a source, instead of directly citing the primary literature? Do you really want to show off how horribly scientifically illiterate you are?

I don't have hypercholesterolemia btw. There's data on adverse effects of hypocholesterolemia as well. As with de facto all things biological, there's an inverted-U shaped response.

In addition, the field is mostly focused on a 'two-hit' model of vascular damage (ONE potential contributor being elevated circulating atherogenic lipoproteins) and biotic pathogens right now. These cholesterol feeding models produce plasma concentrations higher than or similar to human homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia, and cause other problems (xanthomas, etc) not observed in the majority of Alzheimer patients. They also fail to produce the full disease pathology (amyloid plaques AND hyperphosphorylated tau, microgliosis, neuritic dystrophy, tangles, etc), hence remain extremely preclinical. Amyloid deposits per se are not the only component as many humans demonstrate them at autopsy but were never noticeably demented. Also, any kind of inflamed tissue will display elevated cholesterol concentrations due to activated immune cells; that isn't necessarily indicative of upstream disease effects. Analogously, tumors will display elevated macronutrient uptake and content - that isn't necessarily indicative of fat, carbohydrate, protein, etc causing the tumor, rather the tumor could simply have higher metabolic rate relative to nearby tissue. One can't expect accurate portrayal of these caveats from a proselytizing diet book salesman with zero research experience or publications

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2604302

hi, thread. health vegan here

my theory is that meat is more difficult for your body to process and that it takes its toll on you over time. in the same way, chewing things finely is important. being vegan also makes caloric restriction insanely easy.

but if I were to eat one meat, what should it be and why?

Non essential amino acids

>12 creatine and carnitine are only in meat
There is plenty of B12 in milk/dairy and eggs.
Cheese and eggs have more B12 than pork or poultry, and even milk contains more B12 than most poultry.
Creatine and carnitine are not essential, but there is plenty of carnitine and some creatine in milk and dairy.

Eating no meat is not a problem at all, and there is no need for supplements as long as you still consume milk/dairy or eggs. However if you go without any food products coming from animals, you need to supplement B12.

terrible dubs, please go back to /b/

It can take a toll on your kidneys, but only on huge amounts.

Chicken. It is cheap, it is delicious, it is not that sapient, it cost almost nothing to raise enviromentally speaking, it is soft and tender, and it most likely won't offend a deity.

They are all vegan and vegetarian because they are retards.

ty

SOPA DE MACACO
>MONKEY SOUP
UMA DELÍCIA
>DELICIOUS

cui

u fucking idiot

I eat quite a lot of meat a week, it depends on what type of meat

A strictly plant based diet IS NOT optimal and is in fact lethal when practiced for too long. Especially vegetarianism, which is lethal. Do the research. The closest diet to optimal is paleo and includes plants, nuts, seeds, pasture raised meat and no dairy or wheat. Pretty much all disease in our culture is derived from a diet with too much wheat, dairy, and processed shit.

Got to keep the blood vessels clean

>got to keep the pseudoscience memes coming

We went from wild meat and fruit to husbandry and farming for a reason.
Lets not forget the importance of husbandry

> closest diet to optimal is paleo
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Egg has HDL though, not LDL. You should eat at least one per day.

>interpret an anti-low-carb meme as a pseudoscience meme
>post an anti-mercola meme in response
>fails to see irony, since ignorant of mercola's low-carb advocacy

>is so much of a zealot that he interprets me as siding with his rival diet religion
Tip top lel. Good point though. Pseudoscience is too much of a compliment. This is pure anti-science.

Excess cholesterol is only an issue if you consume too much refined sugar, then it can be fixed as arterial plaques. Without the presence of excess sugar it remains free and elevated levels of HDL/LDL are modulated as the body needs them like CoQ10/ubiquitin

>broscience

That's not how nutrition works at all, I'm afraid you have mistaken gravely, my friend.

The vitamins A B C D E K, minerals, the 20 amino acids and specific carbs and fats are the END-PRODUCTS of metabolism.

When you eat meat, you get thousands of different chemical species that ultimately are all turned into end-products.

Even if two foods have exactly the same end-products there can be astonishingly big difference in the quality of those foods. That is why getting vitamins from vitamin pills isnt same as eating carrots and tomatoes.

The question "how much meat should one be eating" is nonsensical question.

There's a lot of competing interests around nutrition, practically everybody wants you to buy their magazines, supplements and foods with their meme diets.

I trust you more than the broscience twats on Veeky Forums, so what do you guys eat, and with which priorities (taste, muscle gain, keeping weight, cardiovascular health, etc.)?

Clif bar and water for breakfast
Clif bar and water for lunch
2x TV dinner and a glass of milk for dinner

Trying to minimize cost and time spent making food

As OP says, is not about not eating meat, is about not having your daily diet revolving around it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet

Funny how all of the research about this population derives from the Willcox brothers, who sell diet books and programs related to it, and hasn't been replicated by some 3rd party group. Even so, one of the reasons they live long is due to (allegedly) not including large amounts of meat in the diet? You can't really causally conclude that from a cross-sectional ecological correlation. Also, healthspan=/=lifespan.

Yeah, it's not like anyone is doing papers about it or anything.

>healthspan=/=lifespan
There's also people arguing whether the Okinawa diet is actually a case of malnutrition vs a healthy lifestyle.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longevity_in_Okinawa#Research

That said, IMO is about the decreased quality of food (particularly meat) due heavy industrialization. I met my great granddad (died at 93+) and he ate meat, but he was a farmer and grew most of his food. So no prozac on his meat/milk unlike anything you can get at a supermarket.

The problem is that you can write thousands of speculatory papers on a single dataset that later turns out to be bunk. This happens all the time in these borderline soft science fields where it's hard to independently test hypotheses or even estimate biological plausibility with existing theoretical knowledge.