So, let me get this straight. Science is telling us we live in a multiverse, not because that's what is most logical...

So, let me get this straight. Science is telling us we live in a multiverse, not because that's what is most logical, but it's the only way scientists can answer why the universe has fine-tuned constants. Personally, I find that to be a huge leap of fatih, far greater than saying that we live in a virtual reality with some kind of creator(s). What do you guys believe? I think at this point in time, science demands just as much faith as religion.

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>science demands just as much faith as religion
it has always been that way

>science is telling us we live in a multiverse
It doesn't.

I first got 'redpilled' like this in college physics, my professor was talking about dark matter, I asked him why scientists believe dark matter exists if they have never seen or observed it, and he said scientists invented it to make sense of all the numerical anomalies which have come up in the past few decades of research.

>Science is telling us we live in a multiverse

Not really? It's far from a settled concept, if you look around physicists are rather against it, it's more of a pop science thing

That's a massive oversimplification.

You might as well say that gravity was just invented to make sense of a bunch of numerical anomalies. Technically true but misses the point.

Science is not telling us this.

Dark energy is more of an invention that dark matter. 'Dark matter' is just a placeholder name for what is clearly a kind of matter that interacts with baryonic matter through gravitation. It has observable effects and we wouldn't be here without it.

It does though. Pretty much all physicists are jumping on the inflation+string theory.

listen

my guy

my pal

my duderoni

popsci ain't science. it's science as explained by people who don't understand science to people who don't understand science

you're like those people that believe quantum mechanics is magic or some shit

We haven't even touched on the holographic universe idea, OP. Bring it up some time. Watch the materialists shuck and jive as they talk about how the universe is a creation, but still try to deny the existence of a creator.

that feel when to intelligent to care about the nature of reality

Yeah, dark matter/energy really smacks of epicycles in geocentrism to me.

Science, religion, philosophy, they're all go hand-in-hand when trying to understand the universe. Neither is more important than the other, and they fail when a person fails/refuses to properly engage. Science and philosophy have a steeper learning curve, which encourages newcomers to try harder. Religion, on the other hand, you're usually just born into, meaning that you just take it for what it is without engaging with it yourself, as you should. Religion that is practiced properly is just as sophisticated as the highest science.

t. a spiritual seeker who has learned more about religion in a few months by studying it himself than he ever did in 12 years of Catholic school

What the hell? Brian Greene and Lawrence Krauss are actual physicists and yes, they do spread science to make it interesting and hip to all the kids, but that doesn't disqualify their research.

All I've heard in this thread so far is "that's not what science tells us" without any alternative explanation. I'm giving you the mainstream idea that's ongoing since the fucking 60s: string theory. If you're still stuck in your newtonian era, that's your problem.

not this most elegant way of putting the idea, but yes. Science requires "assumptions", I think "leap of faith" is a bit strong though.

Check out "What is this Thing Called Science?", its a good introduction into the philosophy of science.

But yeah, Scientific Realism is an ideology just like any religion.

>scientists posit a substance to account for the phenomena
>I'm redpilled on science now

Scientists are full of shit. Did you know the speed of light isn't constant?

youtube.com/watch?v=JKHUaNAxsTg

you're the same guy from last night aren't you?
i'm not getting into this again
stop getting your science from youtube videos

>me, reading this thread

We live in a universe. "BUT WHAT IF THERE'S LIKE MORE THAN ONE EXISTENCE?"

The way I use the word "universe" is the way it's always been used up until michio-kaku types thought it'd be clever to ignore the meaning behind the word and just single out the fact that 'uni' can be changed to 'multi'. Universe just means existence. Also known as "everything."

BUT WHAT IF THERE ARE LIKE, SEVERAL EVERYTHINGS?

Yeah, okay.

No I'm not, I have no idea what you're talking about, but this guy is right people like Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins are just as dogmatic as religious people. Also, are you implying that science cannot be communicated through video and audio?

t. pseud

hahah cool meme bro

The difference between 'faith' and 'hypotheses' is that a hypothesis, once tested and found incorrect, is discarded. One only tests faith to confirm it.

Multiverse is a hypothesis which accounts for some numerical loose ends. If something else comes along that fits the hole more cleanly, multiverse will be discarded. It is a far cry from religious dogma.

haha look how profound i am ALL THESE THINGS ARE GOOD I AM LE SMARTY MIDDLE GROUND MAN
The test is dependent on faith, so it's still faith. Fuck off to ribbit.

But it becomes dogma when used in debate. People like Krauss and Harris, self-proclaimed atheists, argue that a creator makes no sense, but somehow a substance or a string at the foundations of reality is a SOUND ALTERNATIVE explanation.

I agree that some people attempt to weild science as dogma, but that's the failing of those individuals. Do yourself a favour and disregard their nonsense.

>The test is dependent on faith, so it's still faith.
This is bad reasoning, and you should feel bad for posting it.

>reasoning is good
Back to ribbit

>haha look how profound i am ALL THESE THINGS ARE GOOD I AM LE SMARTY MIDDLE GROUND MAN

Funnily enough my friends call me The Fence Sitter

No they are not. String is still viewed as a joke. What is this obsession you people have with talking things you don't know shit about? It's disgusting.

More like scientists looked at their data and it made no fucking sense, so they made themself up a band aid they could put over their numbers to make things not so broken.

youtube.com/watch?v=UhShuyX9Ud4&t=1s