Why isn't science and intellectual inquiry at the forefront of the public mind...

Oh and I forgot the most important one:
Learning about the scientific method and the scientific concepts of chemistry and physics, turns people into ignorant, mindless sheep?

Honestly please explain because from what I can tell you're just repeating nonsensical talking points, cultural cliches "The government doesn't want us to be educated"

No shit, that's the exact problem I'm pointing out in the OP, and somehow you are falling for the deluded conservative propaganda based talking point that public education is the culprit

>Learning about the scientific method and the scientific concepts of chemistry and physics, turns people into ignorant, mindless sheep?
>Learning math turns people into ignorant, mindless sheep?
>Learning about the history of human civilization turns people into ignorant, mindless sheep?
>Learning about the literature written in the past and present turns people into ignorant, mindless sheep?
>Learning about geography, politics, and how governments work, turns people into ignorant, mindless sheep?
None of these are public school-exclusive, I'm not sure why you mentioned these

>What ideas in particular do public schools habitually teach people that turn them into ignorant, mindless sheep?
they don't teach ideas well or sometimes at all, that's the point, quality of education is higher by almost all metrics for private schools

>Please elaborate because honestly I think you are very misled and maybe didn't do too well in school.
I did fine in school, at least well enough to get into all 10 university programs I applied to

>None of these are public school-exclusive, I'm not sure why you mentioned these
Did I say they're public school exclusive? This is what is taught at school, yet you said that school just turns people into mindless sheep

>they don't teach ideas well or sometimes at all, that's the point, quality of education is higher by almost all metrics for private schools
If this is true it is only because private schools pay teachers more and can therefore get better teachers, because they are more exclusive and for rich people. If this was applied to every school then the benefits would be negated entirely since they would still be paid public school wages.

The real issue is education funding as a whole

>I did fine in school, at least well enough to get into all 10 university programs I applied to
Okay then I find it a bit ironic that you still hold the sheep level opinion that school is only meant to turn you into a sheep. Why are you going to university if it's only meant to turn you into a mindless sheep? Your actions don't reflect your stated beliefs. It's clear you're just repeating talking points

That's funny, because it seems like conservative politicians are more concerned with cutting taxes than educating the public. Even leaving aside how wildly misinformed most republican leaders are in terms of geology, climate, and biology as a function of their religious platforms, conservatives don't like the idea of helping others (even if that ultimately means helping themselves; e.g. making their country more technologically powerful through education of the masses and federal investment in sciences).

>Did I say they're public school exclusive? This is what is taught at school, yet you said that school just turns people into mindless sheep
These things are also taught at private schools, if I thought those turned people into mindless sheep than the people at private schools would also be turning into mindless sheep, in which case I wouldn't be advocating for private schooling.

>If this is true it is only because private schools pay teachers more and can therefore get better teachers, because they are more exclusive and for rich people. If this was applied to every school then the benefits would be negated entirely since they would still be paid public school wages.
It is true, and there's far more differences between public and private schooling than how much teachers get paid.

>Why are you going to university if it's only meant to turn you into a mindless sheep? Your actions don't reflect your stated beliefs. It's clear you're just repeating talking points
I've only gone to private schools, I'm not sure how that somehow doesn't reflect my stated beliefs. It's clear you're just repeating that I'm repeating talking points because you think if you say it enough it makes it true

Okay just ignore every point that refutes you and repeat what I've already refuted

Private schools are not a reason to funding to remove public schools

School does not turn you into a mindless sheep

>Okay just ignore every point that refutes you and repeat what I've already refuted
Which were...?

>Private schools are not a reason to funding to remove public schools
Please rewrite this

>School does not turn you into a mindless sheep
School certainly 'can' turn you into a mindless sheep, so you'll have to back up why you think this is true

>Please rewrite this
Oops. "The arguable education benefits of public schools in some circumstances is not a reason to remove funding to public schools"

>School certainly 'can' turn you into a mindless sheep, so you'll have to back up why you think this is true
How, no you back it up, you claimed it first and I've already demonstrated how it's not true by listing the topics taught in schools

>benefits of public schools
Oops again. "benefits of private schools"

>the American Left likes to "educate" people into ignorant, mindless sheep since such people are easier to tax
Fun fact, my english professor was told in her masters program that teaching in the US is about making lawful citizens and not learning until you get to college.

>Why isn't science and intellectual inquiry at the forefront of the public mind?
Because science is a bummer and your average person isn't fit for hard monist nihilism.

>What the hell are you talking about
Look who hasn't stepped out of his basement today.

Honestly, how can you even call yourself an intellectual without possessing an iota of civic know-how?

Wait you're not sheltered, you're just a liberal?

Guess that explains a lot.

I occasionally listen to some cuckservative talk radio to see what these people actually care about and yammer on about.
They, meaning all the big conservative dipshits have actually been pushing this idea that schools and college are not just wasteful but evil purposefully ruining the youth.

These fucking people are waging a war against education. Not even faggy liberal arts but sciences and engineering.

We have gotten to a point that these people are so fucked up that they are not redeemable they cannot and do not want to be saved. The sooner these people and their ideologies are removed from society the better. There is no purpose to argue or attempt to reason with them. These people need to be purged and there way of life erased from existence.

>We have gotten to a point that these people are so fucked up that they are not redeemable they cannot and do not want to be saved. The sooner these people and their ideologies are removed from society the better. There is no purpose to argue or attempt to reason with them. These people need to be purged and there way of life erased from existence.
hello antifa

Looks like even Veeky Forums isn't free from the grasp of conservative idiots with nothing to say

I've responded to these claims and asked for elaboration but have received none. School isn't meant to brainwash people, it doesn't turn you into a sheep, and public education is one of the most important investments we can possibly make for the future

You people are delusional

>School isn't meant to brainwash people, it doesn't turn you into a sheep
oh the irony

>oh the irony
This OP is specifically talking about people like you

Instead of typing out a 3 word sentence expressing no actual information, how about you justify whatever point you're trying to make? If it's so obvious and we just aren't getting it, it should be easy for you to explain

I'm not stupid. If you have a point, make it. But saying "oh the irony" isn't making a point and don't even pretend that it is

I think you have nothing to say

>If you have a point, make it. But saying "oh the irony" isn't making a point and don't even pretend that it is
but it is, can you really not process what might be implied by responding to someone claiming ">School isn't meant to brainwash people, it doesn't turn you into a sheep" with "oh the irony"?

It's not really even lawfulness that they're going for, because they don't teach you any kind of morality. They just want you to learn complacency and obedience. But to be fair, you can't teach empathy.

>What the hell are you talking about?
He's wrong about it being the left, but a day in the average high school is almost identical to one in an office job.

>but it is, can you really not process what might be implied by responding to someone claiming ">School isn't meant to brainwash people, it doesn't turn you into a sheep" with "oh the irony"?
You're trying to imply that it's ironic that I'm claiming school doesn't brainwash you, because according to you I'm only claiming that because I've been brainwashed, no?

Do not give me "can you really not process" because seeing the intent of your inherently meaningless statement does not give it meaning

Elaborate and demonstrate how school brainwashes people. If you can't do it then leave the thread. This is a thread about intellectuality and its fall in society, and you're putting forth anti-intellectual modes of discussion. "Oh the irony" without elaborating while only hinting at there being a greater meaning behind your unsubstantiated claims.

This is the language style of people with nothing to say, who want to seem as if they have things to say. I'm not an idiot bro I've been around this block many times before, you are not the first. I don't even know why I'm bothering to type this out to you because you will not see the light on this issue.

>You're trying to imply that it's ironic that I'm claiming school doesn't brainwash you, because according to you I'm only claiming that because I've been brainwashed, no?
You got it! Good work!

>Elaborate and demonstrate how school brainwashes people. If you can't do it then leave the thread. This is a thread about intellectuality and its fall in society, and you're putting forth anti-intellectual modes of discussion.
There's been plenty of publications about this, you really should bother reading some of it before coming in guns blazing with your baseless thoughts on the matter. Try reading pic related or even his 'The Underground History of American Education' and then try again

>This is the language style of people with nothing to say, who want to seem as if they have things to say
Again with the irony

>I'm not an idiot bro I've been around this block many times before, you are not the first.
I seriously doubt it, or at least if you really have "been around this block" then you've been stuck in an echo chamber of people unfamiliar with education systems

>There's been plenty of publications about this, you really should bother reading some of it
It really bothers me when dumb people make good points. You're totally right about school brainwashing people, but that "it's in a book, so it must be true" is a giant part of the problem. People see the public school system as infallible, and you can't complain about it until you're out, by which time it's usually too late.

>There's been plenty of publications about this, you really should bother reading some of it before coming in guns blazing with your baseless thoughts on the matter. Try reading pic related or even his 'The Underground History of American Education' and then try again
Regardless of your unsupported claims and this book you've posted, the conservative method of removing funding for education is not going to fix your purported problem. I'm done here, have wasted enough time on you

Math and science at the very least are not brainwashing anyone. At most it's social studies and similar, and even then if you apply a modicum of critical thinking you will not end up brainwashed. It's memorization of facts for a test

I have not been brainwashed, I am perfectly capable of critical thinking. Maybe this is a problem for those of us with a lower general intelligence

>Maybe this is a problem for those of us with a lower general intelligence
Intelligence is qualitative first, quantitative second. It's not an RPG stat.

>the conservative method of removing funding for education is not going to fix your purported problem
That's your opinion

>Math and science at the very least are not brainwashing anyone.
Why do you keep bringing up subjects taught in both public and private schools? For the second time, I've made no claim that those subjects are brainwashing anyone, such a claim would contradict my support for private schools, so I don't see why you repeat this over and over

If you think the only thing your mind learned at school is textbook knowledge then I truly feel sorry for you

>but that "it's in a book, so it must be true" is a giant part of the problem
I don't see where you got this implication, I linked a specific book, I'm certainly not claiming horoscopes and pseudoscience are true just because they're in books

a fundamental flaw in public schooling philosophy is that its focus is educating the collective, not educating individuals

You presented a book containing the argument rather than the argument itself. What you were doing was pic related, unless you actually think it would be productive for him to go out, read up on books trying to convince him of your ideology, then come back weeks later to this archived thread.

To be honest though, the whole argument in this thread is basically just a slap-fight because he called you a retard.

>You presented a book containing the argument rather than the argument itself. What you were doing was pic related, unless you actually think it would be productive for him to go out, read up on books trying to convince him of your ideology, then come back weeks later to this archived thread.
Someone writing things like "I'm not an idiot bro I've been around this block many times before, you are not the first." has already closed his or her mind to facts conflicting with their previous hold notions. I do actually think it would be a good learning experience for him/her to read the book though.

Or maybe you could make some actual points instead of holding up the magic knowledge box that makes him as 'enlightened' as you.

>Or maybe you could make some actual points
Someone writing things like "I'm not an idiot bro I've been around this block many times before, you are not the first." has already closed his or her mind to facts conflicting with their previous hold notions.

>instead of holding up the magic knowledge box that makes him as 'enlightened' as you.
Reading one book will certainly not make him/her as enlightened as myself, please stop coming to these strange conclusions

The forefront of the public mind is occupied with how to pay down the mortage, how to get through the workweek without causing too much harm, how to find a partner and raise kids, all while managing to remain healthy and sane.

Everything else, science, religion, politics, freemansory, esports, sodomy - it's only of secondary importance.

They don't care about you zealots too much as long as you don't cause much harm and don't try to take away their jobs.

If you do try - expect pic related.

>Why isn't science and intellectual inquiry at the forefront of the public mind
Because republicans

My answer is unironically Jews. They control all aspects of finance, thus, our lives. They intentionally flood all first-world countries with third world immigration... blah blah blah you get the idea. An intelligent population realizes it has no use for the government or whoever enforces the status quo. So... keep them stupid.

there isn't much agreement on what science actually is, there are always loopholes

for instance standards of proof, if you can clearly observe that the grass is green someone could demand a spectral analysis of each blade of grass to prove it, you might lower standards of proof, however now someone can look at a chart and say "I don't see a correlation" and their casual observation is just as valid as a more thorough statistical analysis

Why are you on a science board if you don't understand what science is

>Trump beats the most well-funded/corrupt candidate in history
Dumb
>DeVos wants to use vouchers in education sustem.
You clearly don't understand how it works. Its to keep brainlets like you away from kids who want to actually learn something but live in a shitskin neighborhood.
At least know what you're talking about before you post faggot.

Conservatives cut Federal funds that make states compete for money siphoned off taxpayers with bullshit standardized tests for funds because education should be a matter of the states. The Fed Department of education didn't exist before 1979. Did schools not exist then dumbfuck? You know nothing about conservatism besides what you see on the Daily Show or Colbert. You're a fucking twat. Its a proven fact that comservative voters have a higher income bracket, education level, and IQ than lib voters because they actually know how our political/economic system works.

State matter not federal. Fuck off Berniebro. Read a book

Helping others should be done in the private sector not by way of force by a government you stupid twat.

Yeah the way public education is being FORCED down on our poor children is terrible

>Do these people not realize the amazing use cases for mathematical and scientific knowledge
no. even if they did they don't possess the capabilities to advance science

Scientific progress takes time, more time than it takes for the govt. to give brainlets a food stamp to feed them and their families day to day.

In Ontario 50% of kids in grade 6 (like 12 yo) didn't meet the government standards for reading and math recently. I totally blame the Minecraft, Roblox etc generation for this. My cousins are that age and they've been immersed in distracting technology their entire lives. I'm not one to talk because I had a Gameboy from a really young age but never even got close to failing an EQAO test (the Ontario standard test).

Maybe if we were blunt and showed them the multiverse and robotics tech we were capable of it might inspire them to do better. Very few role models left in the world.

In short. We need a Platinum Age of Western Animation.

>At least know what you're talking about before you post faggot.
Why the homophobia?

The reality is that we are still apes that feel. Just about everything we do is still based on feelings rather than logic. Even scientific breakthroughs were based on curiosity that was embedded in feeling, some sort of inherent feel to do something.

Until we can overcome this critical flaw in our sapience we will continue to advance slowly.

As for you OP, considering you're a fag, are you willing to give up all your primitive feelings? Happiness, love, empathy, sympathy? And are you willing to give up your urges and needs? Food (that is not necessary i.e. simplified nutrition, no more "that tastes good so I'll eat it"), sex et al.

If you aren't, then you have your answer.

public schools should be abolished, there's too much of a conflict of interest when the government is involved in education

IQ and trait openness (aspects of which are 'openness to experience', 'intellect': interest in ideas + aesthetics) are normally distributed.

Therefore, powerful-intellectually creative individuals are rare.

Think about it this way...

An IQ in the 95th percentile, would put you in the top 5% of the population for intelligence.

That's approximately 375 million people out of 7.5 billion.

The same applies for those who score in the 95th percentile for trait openness.

However, scoring in the 95th percentile or above for both IQ and openness is even rarer; therefore, there really aren't that many powerful-intellectually creative individuals on the planet.

Now, intellect has very little correlation with wisdom (defined here as: how well one's system is correlated with the external environment, in relation to one's fundamental needs and desires).

In fact, intelligent and intellectual folk tend to be very good at convincing themselves and others that terrible ideas are actually undeniable truths; think of the rise of Marxist ideologies and their proliferation through the intellectual sphere.

It also has little to do with moral character, which is an undeniably important aspect of one's psyche, due to its profound impact on social interaction (regardless of what one thinks of morality's prospects for objectivity).

>Do they not comprehend that adherence to the intellectual status quo holds our species back from reaching its full potential

You really want to watch that inclination towards positive liberty, OP.

It's what underpinned the various justifications for the horrors of 20th century authoritarianism.

>How can we overcome this without trampling the rights of the unwashed idiotic masses

Again, this sort of characterisation etches out a slippery slope that descends into moral depravity.

Pay attention to your language, OP.

Additionally, the fact that you may be intelligent and intellectually creative is somewhat irrelevant, in relation to the advancement of our abstract understanding of reality.

While IQ and intellect follow a normal distribution, it appears that all forms of pragmatic - creative –production follow a power law probability distribution referred to as the Pareto distribution.

>pic related

This essentially means that, regardless of how smart and intellectually productive you may be, the likelihood of you producing something with pragmatic value is extremely low; hence, there are only a handful of Einsteins, Maxwells, Piagets, Dostoyevskys, Warren Buffets and the like.

Should those people look upon you with the distain that you express toward the ordinary – everyday – man, due to their extraordinary creative successes?

I’m sure that you would hope not; therefore, I recommend that you reconsider your view of the masses.

You're always going to be somebody's pleb; remember that, OP.

>Until we can overcome this critical flaw in our sapience we will continue to advance slowly.

>Until we have no values, which would mean that we would be completely unable to orient ourselves in the world or take any action, including scientific thought.

Try to think about that for longer than three seconds, user.

my cousins (12 years old) are very into video games. one of them plays overwatch and minecraft a lot since they were 5 or 6
however, he really likes math, is the best at his level in his school and, even if he doesn't read much, his reading skills are perfectly normal or above average
I really think it's more of an education and social environment thing than some bullshit about "generation this" or "generation that"
H

I've been thinking this exact same thing.

The problem seems to be directly connected to the prevalence of social media. It has made it easy for the dumb and the insecure to share in their dumb and insecure thoughts, find others like them, and come together in organized groups. Thus, movements like the Flat Earth Retards got their resurgence.

Extreme religion, anti-vaccination, alternative medicine, extreme left liberals (and extreme right conservatives), fucking crystal power worshipers... these people always existed. But they were of relatively low IQ, isolated in face of the commonly accepted, fact-based scientific world views and education, in a sense they lacked the ability and the drive to get organized. They were just lost souls that didn't belong, and nobody cared.

Now all that bottled up frustration and confusion from their stupidity and weakness has an outlet in the various social media groups. Now, for the first time in a long time (since the dark fucking ages I imagine), these people that were previously unable to find a voice, have been given a tool for it.

You know what's even more worrisome? The smarter people, us elite, with our patronizing reactions, insults, and disbelief to their stupidity, are only further estranging them from us. These people who don't feel they belong, are driven even further away the second they bring up their inanely stupid ideas. Instead of treating them like a father would his child, we treat them like an ugly, stinking and ill-mannered street dog. And you can bet that there are all manner of organizations that just love driving this wedge deeper and deeper. If you were seeking for a way to create imbalances in a rival country, for instance, driving a wedge between their people, crippling their political machines for a long time, would be a goddamn fine way to go about that.

>(cont..)
But as for what to do, well, not much.

Education can't fix stupidity. I mean, there are FET people even in scandinavian countries. Countries where you get the highest level education for free, whether you want it or not, and poverty or background plays no part in it. It's impossible to NOT be given the necessary tools to fight such misinformation here.

But reason, rationality, logic, intellect, knowledge, information... these things have no bearing on the dumb. Remember, around 50% of the people are below an IQ of 100. In our academic, specialized jobs it's difficult to fathom exactly how dumb that is. But it is dumb.

I imagine that since social media is already here, there's not a lot we can do. We might try to appease them, and hope they want to be with us again, even though they don't understand what the fuck it is we're talking about. On the other hand, we might try to limit them. Take away their freedoms, their right to vote. But that would make us monsters, and would result in civil war all over the place.

Or, as it is now, we can try to live on with them. Have them fuck up our politics, our science, our education, and our entertainment... but at least, whether their stupidity leads us to war or one crazy fucking existence, we'll be doing it all as a nation.

There are no wins here. Just choices, each good and bad in their own ways.

Thanks user I think you're right over all

I think we need more qualified science educators. It's a shame that the few public intellectuals in the scientific sphere are people like Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson who are now steeped in liberal conspiracy and are clearly arrogant and really loving their positions right now.

We need more modest people like Carl Sagan who open the mind in an almost fatherly way for the uneducated public and make them see what needs to be done. But even then, many of these people just laugh at him and dislike him and don't consider him

I don't know what to do

>The smarter people, us elite
lul

Because if the public was well educated and not antiscience they would vote for things that make sense and not things they are brainwashed to vote for.

It's not that the people are stupid. It's that our rulers are smart and selfish, but also short sighted. They are master manipulators. The long term health of our civilization is being permanently damaged by the disinformation that the political and economic elite they spread. I expect the world to be a lot worse for the average person. We will become a slave caste while the elite play.

The mass majority of people aren't mentally capable of advancing intellectually. There were people in my high school who weren't able to pass pre algebra. The problem does not necessarily lie in society l, but in the individual, and the values that were instilled by their parents/guardians. I know many bright people who self taught valuable skills and went on to achieve great things. But I know even more who would rather watch anime all day rather than learn a new skill

Get a mathematics and science degree then run for office. Making a lot of money before you run helps.

Public education is good? Let me tell you about the education when I was in high school. We had lgbtq and blm posters everywhere. Straight couples were yelled at by the teachers for PDA in the hallways, while gay and lesbian couples were encouraged to do so. If you were Caucasian or Spanish, you were taught that your ancestors are evil and you should be ashamed of yourself. English class was a joke because all we ever discussed and wrote essays about was BLM and lgbtq problems. Teachers were fired for having conservative view points. Should I tell you more. Sociology taught me one thing: if you are a male you're a misogynist who upholds patriarchy. Should I give you more examples?

LMAO, sucks that you had high school through that media phase.

It was aids

Politicians must cater to brainlets.

The way the schooling system is set up, from kindergarten to university kills actual education.

It is about indoctrination and money.

It's about money for the government. If the government didn't subsidize loans and gave out such large packages, this wouldn't be a problem. Which is why a private uni so much better

I never said anything about values or morality you braindead fucknut

Your first mistake is believing that education equals wealth and advancement. No one is a real job has ever said, "school sure did prepare me for this." Not engineers, not scientists, no one. The real world and its technological innovations are not driven by people creating complex mathematical representations of their ideas, and then executing but by slow stochastic tinkering with the known and arriving at a final product which may or may not prove to be of use. Education does not lead to wealth and advancement, but rather the other way around.

>relatively low
Relative to what? Ourselves? How can our own average be low?

Public schools need to be completely defunded

one of the biggest statist scams together with social security

>No one is a real job has ever said, "school sure did prepare me for this." Not engineers, not scientists, no one
...but you're wrong?

So they don't use any of the math they used in school? They could have skipped school and been fine engineers? You're just full of shit, do you actually think this or is it a talking point?

Do you have a STEM degree by any chance?

I use knowledge learned during my degree every single day and I work on complex low latency ML systems

blame the american dream for that

Pseudo-intellectuals and anti-intellectuals can all go to hell.
Non-intellectuals are cool bois.

because most people are average, majorities control things, and average for humanity is pretty stupid

it's a self perpetuating problem with no foreseeable solution barring a global dictator that genocides brainlets

Eugenics

With current genetics, you will never have more than a tiny population that is intellectual. The vast majority of the population just doesn't have the physical capacity to be good or think about the larger world. If I was an elite I would keep normies on a tight leash too but I would also invest more in sci&tech.

I bet you just love Rick and Morty

I do indeed. Also Bo Burnham. It's an acquired taste.

>Because science is a bummer

This it's interesting, I know that after grunge america got obssesed with being visible happy.

But this paradigm it's slowly changing and people don't take as many happy pills anymore, maybe they are ready to return to hard earned hope for the future instead of mindless escapism.

The thing is, a lot of degrees are legitimately useless and a waste of time and money. Not only that, but colleges charge way to much money for tuition. Though yes, I do agree that the evil thing is exaggerated.

The problem with just about every argument on this site is that everyone treats the world so black and white. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they should be purged, dipshit. How about using this high IQ that you fags boast on about, and try seeing the elements of both sides of the argument, then offering a counter solution? Oh wait, that's not possible for many of you to comprehend. This place is full of idiots jerking each other off over their online IQ test, and ultimately being ignorant to any rational thought.

...

Your hearts in the right place but it is not always the case that a 'rational middleground' is ideal or possible

>Implying sleeping with a man is beneficial to the survival and progress of the human race.

But.. muh netflix is more accessible.

>This whole damn thread