Popular Books with plot holes that ruin them for you

The title says it all. I'll start:
Dune
Considered a classic of SF and often tops lists of 'best SF novels'.
I hate it for a number of reasons, but especially for this plothole
>Dr. Yueh is believed to be perfectly trustworthy because he has been through Imperial Conditioning, process designed to be the ultimate expression of man's ability to train the mind. People who have been through Imperial Conditioning are incapable of harming other or allowing harm to befall them through inaction. They cannot cheat, they cannot lie, they cannot betray. No matter what the threat, torture, or bribe, they CANNOT do these things. Imperial Conditioning is so perfect that those who have been through it are allowed to treat the Galactic Emperor.
>The Harkonnens have learned to do what is believed impossible - break Imperial Conditioning! They have learned how to force someone with the Imperial Conditioning to lie, cheat, betray, etc. even though this is considered totally impossible. The fact they can is so shocking, so incredible that they are forced to kill everyone who knows about it they can because if other noble houses or the Emperor knew the entire House Harkonnen would be wiped out to the last man.
>What is the secret? What incredible solution did they devise to break the unbreakable mental conditioning? How could they do the impossible to Dr. Yueh?!?!
>....they threatened his wife.
>Yup. That's all. No drugs, no torture, no reconditioning. Just 'kill your patients or we rough up the missus'. The galaxy's most perfect mind alteration is foiled by the first thing any street thug would think up.
There are more plot holes than that, but that is the one that ruined the book for me.
What about you guys?

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generally the best way to get someone suggestable to to break down their ego, keep them at a lower level of consiousness by fucking around with the basic drive of the human being.

while you also have to consider Dr.Yueh's back story. We only know that he is a doctor imperial conditioning, and works for house atredies, we also know that he loves his wife.

I haven't read anything beyond the first dune but I imagine Dr. Yueh maybe might have led a life of a complete r9k
that his wife was like the entire universe to him.

I mean imagine the training to undergo imperial conditioning, not to mention becoming a doctor at the furthest reaches in the future that the human mind could possibly imagine. guy probably led a pretty dull, and ardious life for quite sometime till he found his wife, became comepletley enamoured by her.

Dr. Yueh could have been a borderline case for imperial conditioning.

Dr. Yueh is mainly a vehicle to show how fucked up the harkonen are and what lengths they'll go to to achieve their aims.

>Dr. Yueh is mainly a vehicle to show how fucked up the harkonen are
Of course! That is obvious.
My my point remains - If it was so very easy for the Harkonnens to break the 'unbreakable' Imperial Conditioning, why does it have a reputation?
Also, the Atreides know the Hrkonens had something to do with the death/whatever or Yueh's wife but we not able to track communications between their family doctor and their arch-enemies when they are so paranoid they suspect the Duke's concubine and mother of the heir?
Besides, let's be honest - lots of guys are 'completely enamored' of their wives. That's why they marry them! If 'having your beloved wife threatened' is all it takes to overcome the 'unbreakable' Imperial Conditioning why hadn't it been done hundreds of times already? Why didn't the conditioners know about this weakness?
Sorry. I think it is just (like the rest of the books) terrible writing.

becuase every relationship is unqiue

and the way they knew they could break through yuehs imperial conditioning is through his wife.

they didn't really talk about the process

but the output of that process of breaking imperial conditioning led to the harkonenes "threatening" his wife.
I thought they killed her. And he was just a broken man after that.

Defend a plot hole all you want.
Still a plot hole.

its not a plot hole
dr. yueh is just a weak plot device

he didn't leave the shit hanging
he just kinda wrote it off.

Another one
Atlas Shrugged.
Sure, sure - a million plot holes. But the one that made me embrace the book as unintentional comedy was....
>John Galt has created a hidden enclave high in the Colorado Rockies. Only 3 people live there permanently. One guy plants and orchard. One guy has dairy cows and chickens. Another plants wheat and tobacco.
>Later, after a major event, hundreds of people flood into the enclave, called Galt's Gulch. They are totally isolated from the outside world.
>No one starves to death.
The 'let's plant tobacco in Colorado at 8,000' elevation' part made me laugh out loud for real, BTW.
Colorado at that altitude is dry, windy, cold, and has a very short growing season. Wheat will be one crop a year with low yield. Even a large chicken coop will not produce a lot of eggs and meat ('a chicken in every pot' was a phrase that meant 'great wealth'). Orchards take a minimum of 3 years to produce *anything*. Dairy cows can be steady, but you will need a LOT of pasturage at that altitude and a lot MORE hayfields for the long winters.
Three guys running a dairy/chicken farm, a wheat farm (ignore the idea of tobacco!), and an orchard might, *might*, produce enough excess to feed 20 more people than themselves. And doing so would be brutal, back-breaking labor for 10+ hours every day even with a lot of automation.
Oh. The diet would be almost exclusively whole wheat bread, milk, butter, and farmer's cheese, with an egg or two a day and chicken stew once a week. On special days (2-3 times a year) you get a small piece of beef.
After a few years? Apples, too, 2 medium apples a week. And between about November and about June those will be dried apples.
The logistics of just the food are ridiculous.

Another one from Dune.
The House Shields.
>The main palace of the leaders has shield generators that protect the entire building. Dr. Yueh's treachery was to turn them off. Then the fucktardery begins
>First, shields only protect from high-speed attacks. You can walk through them. But we are told during the attack that artillery is essentially a forgotten tech because of personal shields. But if they aren't to protect against artillery, what are house shields *for*? Nukes are effectively banned; artillery is forgotten; people wear personal shields, making them immune to snipers; commandos can just walk through them. The House Shields *serve no purpose* and turning them off would have no real impact on the ability of House Atreides to defend the Duke's compound
more

what about you stop reading retarded shit? i mean, dune, okay, but atlas shrugged? atlas shrugged is the most evil book ever and you choose to attack it because of a plot hole?

Please friends remember that reality itself is full of plotholes.

Novels shouldn't - and that's why Aristotle said that fiction holds more truth than history does.

However we can at least remain lenient with fiction, when it happens to be as irrational as the real world is.

>the most evil book ever
Hey man I liked it. It's kind of naive and superficial, and Rand's philosophy isn't internally consistent but there are truths in there.

>there are truths in there
like what? that book is one big strawman argument and rand's so-called philosophy is basically 'muh egoism, also rape is great if it's in the sphere of economy'.

Artillery is essentially a forgotten tech only because everyone is assumed to have shields up all the time. The Harkonnens actually stationed artillery in the hills above the house and used it to open attack routes for their soldiers unless I misremember. It was meant to be a way to display their conniving evil, that only someone as disposed to war and destruction as a Harkonnen would remember this nearly-forgotten part of warfare.

The notion that you should take pride in whatever you do because YOUR WORK matters, for one. The idea that people who are talented and effective should do what they do as much as possible, for the good of society. It's a pretty clear reaction against Stalinism/Leninism, where for the sake of keeping control great leaders destroyed everything else in society by hamstringing the people who "turned the wheels of the world."

The characters in AS are like those little dudes who appear on your shoulders when you need to make a decision. Hank Rearden isn't a real character so much as he is a mythical example of good behavior, and the President and the other bad guys who use corruption and manipulation to get their way as the reverse image. If you read AS and found it hard to identify with the characters, that's normal. You don't identify with Jesus Christ, you let his example motivate you. The same idea is at work here.

More House Shields
>The Atreides are aware than Harkonnens are trying to sneak in lasguns
>If you shoot a shield with a lasgun both the lasgun and shield generator explode like mini-nukes
>Atreides had no plans set up to deal with the fact they might have to turn off the house shields to avoid a mini-nike
More on shields
>Harkonnens and Sardaukar surprise the Atreides because the Atreides are used to fighting with shields
>Most of the fighting is inside the area where there are no worms, so Atreides *could* use shields
>Atreides had been preparing to move here and hadn't shifted tactics to cover no shields during all the preparation of a force 'so well trained and so skillful they were within a hair of Imperial forces'
nonsensical
[more]

>The Harkonnens actually stationed artillery in the hills above the house and used it to open attack routes for their soldiers u
That was inside the area where there were no worms so the Atreides troops would have shields so - the artillery should have been useless, right?
But no! It works for reasons, so it is a plot hole.

>The notion that you should take pride in whatever you do because YOUR WORK matters, for one.
who is able to do that in his working life? it's just an analgesic to make people go to work without being pissed about it
>The idea that people who are talented and effective should do what they do as much as possible, for the good of society.
this is pure fantasy. people are only in it for the money and always will be and no crudely written sci-fi novel will change that.
>Hank Rearden isn't a real character so much as he is a mythical example of good behavior, and the President and the other bad guys who use corruption and manipulation to get their way as the reverse image.
strawmen, larger-than-life characters and inventions from cloudcuckooland don't make a good argument. and speaking of good behaviour, hr is a rape fetishist, but i'm sure that's a great example i should emulate.

Last on house shields
>Generators for the shields for the house are deep below ground, hard to get to
>They get sabotaged and the Harkonnens attack with the Imperial Sardaukar aiding them - it is a massive clusterfuck bloodbath with Atreides troops dropping like flies as they are overwhelmed.
>Later the imperial soldiers are firing lasguns as they chase the protagonists and POW! They explode
>One of the Atreides troops had A) taken the time to get the shield generators out of the palace as it was being slammed with waves of troops and artillery, B) After lugging it out of the basement vault, he had loaded it into an ornithopter, C) He had repaired the sabotage while running for his life, D) He found the protagonists after, E) Leaving the repaired generator in juuuuust the right spot to F) Wipe out pursuit at just the right time
fucking ridiculous

Atlas Shrugged Protagonists
>Lie, cheat, commit massive fraud, steal, engage in wanton destruction, impoverish millions, all while preening about how moral they are
Guess why mentally healthy people don't identify with them.

they're just like jesus, don't you get it?

...

Dude what the fuck are you talking about. Did you actually read the novels or just the wikipedia article? Having shields over your whole city is to prevent airborne attacks and troop carriers from landing. But you can't use shields on Arrakis because they attract worms. Also pretty sure the ornithopters have their own shield generators. ALSO just because people in the novel THINK that Suk school condition is unbreakable doesn't mean it really is.

>Having shields over your whole city is to prevent airborne attacks and troop carriers from landing
They don't have shields over entire cities, just over buildings.
And the primary combat area when House Atreides is destroyed is in the worm -free area *as I pointed out more than once* which is why they could have a house shield on as well as personal shields.
And my problem isn't 'the unbreakable conditioning is breakable' it is 'the unbreakable conditioning is breakable by about the most obvious, accessible means there are'.
>Did you actually read the novels
Yes. But you obviously didn't even read these posts!

Any more popular novels with glaring plot holes?

Haven't you got an anti-fa protest to be attending?

Here is a much bigger one for Atlas Shrugged-
The 'strike' would never work.
Look at Reardon - he walks way and his plant shuts down.
Why would it do that?
There are thousands of workers that do their job very competently that don't need him to keep doing their job. He has foremen, supervisors, accountants, HR, etc. Hell, his staff can certainly make Rearden Metal without him - they do it during the book!
Oh, they might have to hire a new CEO to run the business *and* a new metallurgist or two to replace him, but so what? He wasn't running the blast furnaces, accounting, loading docks, and setting up work schedules all by himself.
Same with essentially everyone else. They quit and walk off and a competent person would replace 95% of them immediately. The other 5% would take a month or two.

don't you have a containment board to go to?

>who is able to do that in his working life? it's just an analgesic to make people go to work without being pissed about it

Underage b&!

>atlas shrugged
>evil
This is the equivalent of some Muslim saying Harry Potter is evil. You're a retard.

>books are evil
Wew lad

how is that underage? if you had worked even 1 day in your life you'd know what i'm talking about.

I don't know. If you say bad characters, bad writing, bad dialog, and bad plotting are all morally bad it might be evil *that* way

the rand fanclub has arrived. they don't have arguments, so they shit all over the place, like their idol.

Fuck, son, I unironically love my job.

brainlet

Interesting b8

Not him but haven't you an argument to make?

>haha Randroids are here guys no arguments
>books are evil because reasons

if you'd read this thread you'd seen me making arguments so shut up

that is not a plothole
that is what one calls bad writing

OP, what it comes down to is that the Harkonnens found a way past learned helplessness.

>Suk conditioning makes you unable to stand the infliction of suffering, to the point where you cannot even tolerate its passive occurrence
>Normally this makes the subject unable to do any sort of harm, nor allow any harm to be done
>Under normal conditions, if a subject were given a situation in which both action and inaction caused horrific harm, they would shut down in what psychologists refer to as "learned helplessness"
>Whatever form of conditioning was used was designed to cause such emotional agony that no threat of, as you put it, what any street thug would immediately come up with would suffice to shift the balance one way or the other and break the state of learned helplessness

What the Harkonnen did was discover that Yueh cared enough about his wife that whatever specific thing that they did to her was, in his mind, sufficient enough to break his conditioning. They found a way to inflict such pain and horror that it could break someone who was conditioned to shut down when presented with such a thing that it was a threat. What the Harkonnen found, specifically, was the threshold beyond which the conditioning could not cope with.

Now ask yourself how many Suk doctors they had to try this out on in order to figure out precisely how to do it, how many various Houses employed Suk doctors, and how if this were discovered it would make the Baron an imminent threat to so many people that he would be destroyed almost immediately.

>caring about potholes
Can't think of a more pleb activity desu

...

But that's bullshit, and I'll tell you why three ways
1) Within the books they explain that Suk conditioning was unbroken for 100 generations; that no recipient of the conditioning had *ever* broken it in *any* despite *any* torture, counter-conditioning, threats of mass violence, etc.
2) 'B-b-bu-bu-but Yueh *loved* his *wife, hurr durr!" Isn't an argument because we have to assume everyone who was married loved their wives, that in the previous 100 generations leverage against wives, mothers, children, pets, entire cities, etc. had been tried and it all failed.
3) In Real Life there have been many accounts of men with nothing but a strong moral code, let alone mental programming, refusing to break their morals when faced with the death of someone they dearly loved. From men tortured to death during the Balkans Wars because they refused to torture others up to garrison commanders in the Spanish Civil War who bid their own children farewell rather than surrender their commands, then watched their children executed in front of them.
So plenty of people in Real Life ignored a bullshit threshold like 'kill innocent people who trust you or I'll kill your loved one'.
.
So - its bullshit.

...

in the iliad everything is made of bronze but in book 17 line 424 he calls the fight an "iron tumult"

1. Because most people stopped trying past a certain point. The Harkonnen were not most people.
2. They didn't just use leverage against his wife, they actively did something to her that hurt Yueh to know worse than whatever the response his conditioning triggered was.
3. Everybody breaks under torture. Having a loved on kidnapped is a reason for IRL spymasters to be removed from the field because it is such a point of compromise. You have an overly romantic idea of what is normal behavior, and it has no bearing on our discussion.

If we are talking about actual psychologically conditioning, then here is what Suk conditioning would actually look like.

1. Pavlovian association of Positive and possibly Negative punishment with actions or thoughts of betrayal and harm.
2. Conditioning would have to be irregular enough over a long period of time to the point where extinction was effectively a non-occurrence even over decades, perhaps due to self-reinforcing conditioning.
3. In the event that someone were to pull an "I have your wife" type of scenario, or "kill them or I genocide the population with nerve gas" scenario, learned helplessness would have to be triggered as a result of the conditioning, meaning that the emotional agony of both situations would have to be so evenly matched as to act as a paralytic and thus induce the state of learned helplessness.

The only way to break that is if whatever you are doing is so heinous that it breaks any equilibrium of learned helplessness by making the pain of both action and inaction no longer comparable.

>t. psych minor

>fight an "iron tumult"
metaphoric poetic license?

it's a wrong poetic license

it doesn't make sense he even calls the sky "brazen" two words later

homer is a hack

1- bullshit
2- typical stuff that happens in real life
3- I'm a former 98G/98C3PL from the 519thMIBN so keep the 'IRL spymaster' and 'what torture does' conjecture to yourself, m'kay? And despite your 'overly romantic' jibe, the fact remains - real life people sustain a lot more emotional pressure that did Yueh.

And I do love your amateur assertion of what 207th Century mental conditioning would look like. While you're defending gaping plot holes in a third-rate SF novel, why don't you explain how Idaho got the shield generators into the middle of the desert?

>What is 'liberties in translation', Alex?
Were you reading it in the original Greek?

>he did SIGINT

Whoa man!

Lets asume that it is not a plot hole, why then was this supposed imperial conditioning perfect and foolproof? Could it be that the empire's methods are in fact not? Remember that the whole thing relies on spice, so there are bound to be imperfections in such a hige system, houses, trading and travel entities, schools and so on. Maybe the conditioning is in fact not perfect, it could also be a way of implementing spies easily without suspicion.

Also you're probably right, but I still have to give you shit for being an intel nerd. We have to either conclude that Suk conditioning was overrated, that the Baron wasn't giving us the whole story, that Yueh was a singular case, or that there is a plot hole.

I am not allowed to use that abbreviation.
Seriously
I think two things mean we should accept it as a plot hole
1) Occam's razor.
The first book in particular spends a lot of ink talking about how *SHOCKING*!! it is that a Suk doctor would turn, but the reason is mundane. It also mirrors some of herbert's earlier works where he seems to attach a rather great deal of emotional weight to rather mundane things in really weird ways that make plot holes.
2) The book has plenty of others, too, so it fits a pattern. Book two is far worse, IMO

Its not a plot hole, you are a hack. You can create nothing of your own, so 'your creation' (inflation of your ego) is to attempt to 'destroy' by way of bird (shittery, storm) something others hold up as a 'decent, or more' creation.

Kudos, imagine I am now pressing a gold sticker star unto your lapel, you won, you win. You are better than Dune.

I know that SIGINT people can't say SIGINT. I heard it from some Navy friends who had to say exploitation instead of hacking.

>plot hole

I'm willing to accept the premise while presuming that there is something else at play other than "we have your wife" that was not fully explained. Yueh was a plot device anyway.

I see you have no idea who Lattimore is.

Why didn't Sun Wukong just fly the scriptures to china?

Since we are on the subject of Dune, I recently finished chapterhouse and I was wondering whether I absolutely need to read the butlerian jihad fanfiction before reading hunters of dune. I more or have an idea of what I'm in for, or at least I think I do, just wanted to make certain if I could skip those.

The Oxford edition explains these inconsistencies as arising from structural necessities. Something like that. I think the ships are also described as being 'fast' while they're moored on a beach head.

The Butlerian Jihad stuff is sort of okay sci-fi if you view it as fundamentally distinct from the Dune continuity. The "House X" prequels are no good, nor are the ones continued where the original series left off.

what do you do senpai?

You probably should have stopped at God Emperor, to be honest.

I know this is going to go over your head, but I feel compelled to point it out anyway. One of the overarching themes of the Dune series is technology vs biology, and that biology, pushed to and beyond the breaking point of human capability, is as or more capable than technology.

While Dune seems to favour the biological over the technological, Yueh is an example of the inherent weakness of using a biological agent in place of a technological agent. The planning for Dune started in the fifties, which means it has its roots in the postwar eugenics backlash, and the 'double-agent' panic of the opening days of the Cold War. Both of these issues present themselves in Yueh's character. No matter how well you program a double-agent, they still have individual autonomy (Yueh ultimately turned his assassination into a potential attack on his tormentor) and no matter how well-programmed your biological machine is, it will still be vulnerable in ways which technology is not (Yueh's programming being undone by love). These themes present themselves repeatedly throughout the first four Dune books.

I often find, with plot holes, that most of them disappear after a little critical thought is applied to the text.

The only thing I liked about God emperor were leto's monologues, the romance part s really put me off and didnt really like neither Duncan or siona.
Thing is I'm set or reading hunters and sandworms even knowing they are awful, I just want to know if I need to read the jihad ones.

It's been a while but... he never had a wife in the first place, right? They just made him think he did.

Instead of googling a plot hole, i'm gonna be the first to talk about a book I've actually read.

Hagrid says that there hasn't been a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. Then we fucking meet Pettigrew. I mean, what the fuck. How can I enjoy this book now?

>reading Dune for secure plot structure

l m a o

I just checked the Greek and indeed he uses an adjective related to iron and then one about bronze, in the next line. But this "plot hole" is known for a long time and it's not just these two lines, there is a number of references to iron age weapons and warfare techniques although the poem is supposed to take place in the late bronze age. So what? It subtracts absolutely zero from the beauty and value of the poem.

they had Iron during the bronze age.

Who gives a shit about plots? Stop reading genre fiction.

They didnt simply threaten his wife
They revealed that his long believed dead wife was alive and in their captivity
And it turns out he did in fact remain loyal

>The Harkonnens have learned to do what is believed impossible - break Imperial Conditioning!
No, that's what they led themselves to believe. In fact Yueh co-operated willingly, because he saw a way to assassinate Baron Harkonnen. "Wheels within wheels," and all that ...

Yueh considers Duke Leto a dead man ("You were dead anyway, my poor duke.") So he arranges a demise for him which allows him to strike at his enemy (by means of the poison tooth.)

Don't forget that it's Yueh who saves Paul and Jessica. He is only doing what any surgeon does: cutting away dead tissue so the living might survive.

>God Emperor is a good Dune novel

When will this meme die? It's just a huge chunk of clunky exposition to set up the next two novels.

OK, I suck and am riven with envy.
Still a plot hole.
Like the shield generators

Sure, plot device. That's fine.
Let's look at the title of the OP - this is about the subjective, personal response of particular readers to bad writing. You can have bad writing that doesn't prevent you from enjoying a book
>Flowers in the Attic sold 40+ million copies, after all
but people are different.
I was hoping to start a discussion of how popular works can have bad plotting/pacing/plot holes/etc. and still be popular but NOW I am fascinated with the people *very determined* to prove to me that a bullshit plot event that makes no sense as written isn't so.
I mean - is this a group case of 'you better fucking like Dune or else, you bastard!'?

this is true.

I am a technical sales engineer for a major computer hardware and software manufacturer

>"I know this is going to go over your head..."
>Follows that with the well-known analysis of Dune regurgitated by every in depth review or Cliff Notes-style summary since 1970
Yes, yes, and Yueh giving Paul a copy of the Orange Catholic bible symbolized his own internal struggles with morality in the face of the choices he was making while unknowingly beginning the path of Paul to becoming Muad'Dib, the foundation of a new religion, and the creation of a new galactic political order, showing how the political machinations of the Harkonnens, the Emperor, the Guild, and even the manipulative Bene Gesserit are powerless in the face of religious fervor.
Yes, I get it. Yes, I know what the goal was.
That isn't the point.
The point is - how hard would it have been for Herbert to either tone down the 'totally unbreakable mental conditioning' discussion OR simply add in 1-3 lines about a new, secret technique cooked up in a lab?

So - you don't think it meets the goal of OP?

>Conditioning makes it impossible for him to take a life
>but he killed an innocent woman
>Conditioning makes it impossible for him to lie
>he lied all the time
>Conditioning makes it impossible for him to betray others
>He betrayed his benefactor and turned him into a suicide weapon
Uh-huh

>sales engineer
What did he mean by this?

see

sokanu.com/careers/sales-engineer/

That makes some sense but I doubt Herbert put that much hidden meaning behind it, since he really liked info dumping and exposition, why wouldnt this come up?

Imperial Conditioning is described in the glossary as "the highest conditioning against taking human life."

"Highest" implies a scale of fallibility, and that no conditioning method is foolproof. In fact it stands to reason that one conditioning programme can be undone by another. Yueh uses a lot of justifications for his actions which presumably amount to a home-brewed counter-conditioning.

We keep coming back to how its fallible.
Yeah. Obviously.
My complaint is the rather... pedestrian nature. Here is a direct quote from the book:
>"The obvious suspect is Dr. Yueh, who is indeed our agent. But Hawat has investigated and found that our doctor is a Suk School graduate with Imperial Conditioning — supposedly safe enough to minister even to the Emperor. Great store is set on Imperial Conditioning. It's assumed that ultimate conditioning cannot be removed without killing the subject. However, as someone once observed, given the right lever you can move a planet. We found the lever that moved the doctor."
See? The text makes it clear that everyone assumes that any Suk doctor of ithe Inner School will die before his conditioning is broken.
Cool premise! I mean - ho *do* you subvert conditioning so strong it is assumed all who have it will die first? Think of the many martyrs of religion in the Real World that underwent extreme torture, the death of their loved ones, and more for their moral convictions! Think of the military officers that have faced the same for duty! What *possible* leverage could break such condition? A telepath? A new drug? Years of counter-programming?
Nope.
They *threatened his wife*.
That's what killed it.
It's like
>"It is the ultimate expression of main battle tank armor. It is assumed that even a nuke couldn't harm it, even if the crew died. But we found a way!"
>"Ooooh! What is it?"
>"We shot it - WITH A PISTOL!!!!"
Just - fuck.

There was more to it than just threatening his wife. Leto's death is inevitable ("For the father, nothing.") because the Emperor has decided to destroy the Atreides. Within that context Yueh is acting intelligently, even compassionately, to mitigate the disaster.

I agree that Herbert over-emphasises Yueh's conditioning, but this isn't solely what throws Hawat off the scent. His main suspect is Jessica, after all. It's not a plot-breaker in itself.

>However, as someone once observed, given the right lever you can move a planet. We found the lever that moved the doctor."

However, as someone once observed, given the right lever you can move a planet. We found the lever that moved the doctor."

However, as someone once observed, given the right lever you can move a planet. We found the lever that moved the doctor."

However, as someone once observed, given the right lever you can move a planet. We found the lever that moved the doctor."

Youre entire ""problem"" was his purposeful point.


Epici peiciciceicicei HARDCORE CONDITIONINg.. impossible!!! to break!!! impossible impossible!!!!

Oh, it can be broken... I GUESS THEY WERE WRONG... I GUESS ITS POSSIBLE TO BE WRONG

Animal Farm - animals CANNOT ORGANIZE

What do you call the Trump administration?

That's not a plot hole.

Woefully disorganized.

>naive

How?

>The Bible

>virgin birth

...

Fake and gay.

That's hardly a plot hole. Talk about frank's insistance to always tell and never show. Or about how each and every character in that story is horribly one-dimensional. Or maybe how no matter how long you spend worldbuilding, it only makes a shitty story more wordy.

...

[gayness intensifies]