What is keeping women out of STEM fields, Veeky Forums? Is it cultural? Or is it genetic?

That's certainly an interesting way of putting it, but I would posit that technological jobs can do just as much good for society as a nurse or a social worker. Those jobs touch the lives of, what, a few thousand people? Technology touches the lives of billions.

patriarchy. also it doesn't

i really dont believe that women are not taken seriously. it can be argued that hillary didnt win because woment are not taken as seriously as men but the fact that everyone thought she was going to win should be proof that women are taken seriously by the majority of our society these days. i dont think that this is the cause of them not chosing to go into those fields. it has an inherent biological basis. take legos for example in 2012 they launched their most succesful girl oriented toys i think they're called "friends". over the last few years girls have increased in lego demographics from about 9% to somewhere around 28% of the children asking for legos are girls. all girls have the choice to play with these toys no one would dare stop them today. and yet they only make up 30% of the market. they are just not interested in it.

Just playing double's avocado here, but couldn't it be said that societal pressures are the things responsible for pushing girls away from legos?

Why do you want irrational simians in STEM?

Only autistic women should be in STEM any twittertard shouldnt be allowed.

No I agree, but it's not about that it's about the perception^tm. I would say like maaabye an old professor would say you don't belong in STEM or something(like that one scientist) honestly if it stops them from going into STEM chances are they were not that interested. Some girls even join STEM to be special. I think overall there is no real discrimination

such as? i'm in stem because that's what i like to do, i didn't really give it any more thought than that.

i really cant see any societal pressures that girls are facing that doesnt have an equal pressure for boys. i would in fact say that girls actually have more opportunities in modern society than many males do. especially when you take intelligence into account. we are closing many avenues of work that our lowest iq population used to do for us. but now we dont need them. and most of these are males losing their jobs. the hard menial labour that is now being done by computers and machines. this is only going to be more problematic as time progresses. girls are already attending college at almost 4:1 i believe.

Here's why :

youtube.com/watch?v=XNL6sPIRLLc

The differences in interests between men and women, although the overlap between their interests is bigger than their divergence, explains why women don't go into STEM fields at the same rate men do, at least for the traditional STEM fields - mathematics, physics, computer science, etc. However, women outrank men in other domains, like medicine, presumably because it allows them to interact more with people (patients). So it's clearly not cultural, because if it were, then it'd be difficult to explain how come women managed to get into medicine (which traditionally was a male-dominated field), but not engineering ; it would also be difficult because you'd have to show, contrary to the literature, that genetics play a smaller role than culture.

In mathematics departments it's 50/50 (maybe even more women than men).
It's only engineering and physics autist who have no women in their amphitheaters.

Why do you think that is, though?

Not him, but because physics is so fucking autistic. And by that I mean it is so granular and obscure now that even two physicists might have a hard time having an interesting discussion if their subfields differ even a bit too much. Same goes for philosophy actually.
This is actually a big deal, because as a professional, you'll be in situations where you have to prove yourself, to people who are not of the field. And women naturally still are more likely to encounter incredulity toward their competences.

Take your average history PhD or comparative litterature PhD and invite them to some cultural show on national radio. Will they be able to say interesting things for an hour to the audience? Fuck yeah. Take your average physics PhD to the same show, and he'll wonder what he has to say about metallic glass or III-V ternary alloys that will not bore the audience to death, or that they simply won't understand.
Read the history PhD thesis as a layman and you'll feel amazed at the erudition of the writer, and uplifted. Read the physics PhD thesis and you'll fall asleep and wonder what the fuck you just read. Same probably goes for the philosophy thesis.

Being more exposed to the need to justify their intellectual status, I thus think women gravitate more towards field with a rich cultural capital. Hence their preference for things like lit of course, but also chemistry and medicine.

I am dubious about the whole math 50/50 claim. It is certainly less masculine than physics but I didn't know parity was reached. First years don't count, as students don't know what they get into.

/thread

And afaik in some asian countries the difference is CS/IT and engineering is non-existent. So it could be argued that most of the difference is cultural. And where it isn't, men being more autistic about their interests covers for that, which is also a societal thing that is brought on by the nature of human sexual dimorphism as well as the sexual liberation of the 21st century.

>Read the physics PhD thesis and you'll fall asleep and wonder what the fuck you just read

Obviously if you Math level begin calculus.

>some countries the difference in CS/IT and engineering is non-existent
Do you have a source for that?

But what you like to do has a lot to do with your upbringing. If you grew up in a black neighborhood being made fun of every time you missed a shot in basketball you'd probably not like playing.

Nerd/geek stereotype, makes people Math/science/tech saw as subhuman education.

But wouldn't that just select for people who were better at basketball anyways?

The only societal pressure I see is constant empowerment and encouragement of girls while young boys are ignored and left behind.

How hard is it to stretch that hard to constantly dangle yourself from a cross?

What?

Women aren't into these fields because they don't want to be. They're even encouraged to and given free rides but its just not appealing to them.

Malaysia: cs.cmu.edu/~cfrieze/courses/malaysia.pdf

It's not the math, it's the incredibly byzantine vocabulary and subculture that develops in every subfield of physics.

>But what you like to do has a lot to do with your upbringing. If you grew up in a black neighborhood being made fun of every time you missed a shot in basketball you'd probably not like playing.

my peers were mostly indifferent. i did not receive any substantial encouragement.

That's certainly very interesting, but what would you say about some of the nordic countries who have tried for years to promote more women into the fields of engineering without success?
oecd.org/sweden/Closing the Gender Gap - Sweden FINAL.pdf

Weird how a country ranked 42nd for gender equality surpasses countries in the top ten.

Different cultures probably, in my experience western women tend to focus too much on their appearance, they're very rarely people you'd like to hang with beyond sexual relationships. This is especially visible with Anglo-Germanic culture imo. IIRC Southern Euro countries like Bulgaria and Cyprus have much higher % of female engineers. And the girls there are more interesting to talk to, what a coincidence. Not that there are no autists in western countries, but the split between women autists and male autists is probably a lot higher as well.

And by "culture", I don't mean le mean sexist rape culture perpetrated by men, but rather the promotion of the view that a woman can and SHOULD exploit her sexual promiscuity and superior position in the sex market to live a comfortable life. And I guess that's not a bad thing, if you're a woman who has no ambition, but, you know, whatever.

That's just how I see it anyway.

>Is it cultural? Or is it genetic?
it's not genetic, because women can have "intelligent" genes that produce a high IQ STEMlord son

it's hormonal. by that i mean women are not as interested in "objects" and the systematizing that's required in STEM because of prenatal hormones that drastically influence brain development.

>>mfw he tries to tell me there aren't enough regular computer scientists for microsoft to hire
there aren't

there's an abundancy of code monkeys, but not that many "good" computer scientists.

It's a pointless debate really, with self proclaimed lean-in feminists demanding handouts of high paying jobs on the left and retarded sexism on the right. Regardless, who gives a shit about population trends anyways. The majority of people are stupid in any big group of people.

I can say for programming in particular it's probably more biological than cultural because a number of very wealthy and powerful organizations have been pouring money into forcing gender parity in coding hires for a pretty long time now without very much progress. You can hire female programmers, but at the end of the day you need to run a business where the people working for you can actually write programs, and no matter how hard they want to force this political agenda eventually businesses will behave like businesses and get rid of dead weight.

Being one of the few women in a male-dominated field can be intimidating. I feel like women also don't have many female scientist role models and so don't really identify with that career.

What the fuck did you just say you disgusting misogynistic sexist pigs?

>being one of the few women in a male-dominated field can be intimidating
Isn't that the whole point of women in science and engineering groups? Also, does the same thing apply to males who enter female-dominated fields (such as nursing or elementary education)?
>I feel like women dont have scientist role models
if women can't find female role models in the STEM fields then they aren't looking at all.

...

Men have earlier experience in particle physics because of how they pee. Hence they are able to get their "pH"D's at a young age. They have also developed a "flow" for learning new material which lets them "whiz" by in STEM courses.
>tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/taking-pee-out-physics-how-boys-are-getting-a-leg

this person cannot be fucking serious

bump

There is a lot of evidence to sugest innate biological difference in terms of our psychological imperatives. An alternate explanation is that in places like india and china, the competition is brutal and all the comforts that exist in western countries aren't accesible to all. So this competition and need to succeed makes society push everyone they can into practical fields such as engineering. There's also a disparity as to what men and women want to do with their degree. Men tend to go for academia at much higher ratea than women. But in the end, who givea a fuck? Merit is what's do on these fields nowdays.

Do you got the studies on that?

He's dead, jim

Unfortunately, nobody's really looked into it from that angle, and I don't have the resources to do a study on it by myself.

Pregnancy

gregnant

keep in mind that math/science numbers are skewed by people who are going to teach in highschool, which are predominantly female. You don't have those in engineering/cs
I remember having 40/60 female/male split in my first semester and only around 10-20% women in my grad classes

It is the autistic equivalent of shitposting

isnt that pretty much every post on Veeky Forums?