Would a brutally honest book about the female mind have any audience or immediately get shut down my feminists?

would a brutally honest book about the female mind have any audience or immediately get shut down my feminists?

provided it was written by a female

what if it was embedded in fiction?

it's been done. you'd have to get feminists to read it or talk about it for them to get upset, but that's just advertising.

>it's been done
which books?

>that's just advertising
true

>which books

Henry James comes to mind as the greatest male cartographer of the female mind. Try Portrait of a Lady if you want brutality, or The Golden Bowl if you want a more optimistic (but still very 'redpilled') view of what women are capable of. Although also be aware that The Golden Bowl is like the slowest book ever written.

There's also plenty of very honest books by women about women, but I don't think they're what you're looking for because they don't dwell so much on the points that, I imagine, seem important to you.

go and look at the movie "The Red Pill" and how degenerates treated it.

if it was fiction it would actually work if it´s not too preachy or visible.

i'm going to look into henry james, thanks for the rec

what points do they dwell on then?

i think that's partly because it was made by "the patriarchy".

the idea was to write a book from an internal point of view about an "average girl", not being preachy, just showing the mental gymnastics going on. i'd write it to expose the female mind. but it could be interesting for women to read because it "reassures" them in their wicked sense of thinking. might be that feminists would even love it for the "shameles honesty"

i'd let her go trough everyday situations, and ofc try to weave it into a captivating plot

i think it's about time to develope an indepth female character that isn't sugarcoated by men putting their protagonist (and females in general) on a pedestal or being bitter about women in general. i've never seen a genuine female character written by a woman. it's always their "what i wish girls were like" and not "what girls actually are like"

that actually sounds quite interesting

>the female mind

Oral fixation, mucus fixation, hybristophilia. The end.

>the idea was to write a book from an internal point of view about an "average girl", not being preachy, just showing the mental gymnastics going on. i'd write it to expose the female mind. but it could be interesting for women to read because it "reassures" them in their wicked sense of thinking. might be that feminists would even love it for the "shameles honesty"
i'm but not who still has a good rec. what you're talking about has been written about, try esther vilar's manipulated man. feminists hated it, but it's precise and fair.

you can get that kind of shit even if you don't go for the feminist crowd. steinbeck's east of eden has one of the best female antagonists in the history of literature. she's better than eve and more fleshed out than lilith was by any medium or writer. but one of the main criticisms was that she was unrealistic. that no such evil exists. even if she'd been male, some critics refused to believe that sociopaths exist or the book's main thrust was any good, because cathy is mean enough to make people who read for a living rage quit.

what would you expect from this book for it to be worthy of your time?

eh, i'd be more interested in the dynamics behind the ((reasoning)) than simple uncovering. it wouldn't be the intention to shock (like, let's say wetlands) or make the prot a disgusting filthy whore on purpose. roche is subhuman. i'd want my prot to be representative of the ((average girl)), not the slut that gobbles dicks like it's candy. i'd want it to be an accurate portrait

>vilar
>steinbeck

thanks a lot for the recs! looks like i got some reading to do

i want to know how bad it can be to make people rage quit

east of eden is long. it's a modern epic retelling of biblical proportion. save it for later if you want to get going on your idea, but it's definitely worth the time.

manipulated man is very short, you could probably get through it easily before the thread dies.

i guess i personally would want a proper scenario and not multiple "unrelated" scenarios but besides that the idea itself is enough to get me to read it

downloaded vilars and i'm not sure if it's worth it. she seems bitter. but sice it's such a short read, it can't hurt

you mean, it should be a proper story? that's what i had in mind. i wouldn't want it to be a rant about females like vilar's. i'd want the reader to discover the female mind without being aware of it because the story is interesting enough

The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar.

She was sent death threats by feminists. Probably still gets them.

>she seems bitter.
I don't know where you're getting that from, dude, the whole book is basically "my life will never suck as much as a dude's because society thinks my vagina makes me a delicate flower". sure, she's not happy she's not being treated like an equal, but considering her choices are "be treated how i want" and "be treated more than fairly" it's not really much to get bitter over.

she's bitter towards women. she generalizes them like any mgtow guy would. it's like a nigger joining the kkk.
being bitter is tinted and not honest.
and my main problem would be that she probably only does this to get sympathy from men. it's a perfidious way of attentionwhoring. not that mine would be any better. maybe a tiny bit because i am aware of it

keep in mind that i haven't dinished the book yet. maybe i'll change my mind about that

But...that's it. You can only write so many pages about sucking, oozing, and being choked.

she doesn't sound bitter towards women from my perspective. if anything she sounds condescending to men, as though she has to explain to them they are being used. most people who find it unfair to women would think it's very unfair to women to ask them to perform the same social responsibilities as men, which is normally a division of the sexes which does hold that women shouldn't do dirty work or expect to.

i don't think those would even make an appearance. i donmt see the necessiy. as i already said, i'm not interested in describing her life from a "observe her suck, ooze and get choked" perspective but more from a "wtf was she thinking" one. and then actually write down WHAT she was thinking. maybe yes, whilst oozing.

that's true. there's a very condescending undertone. i don't want that either. i don't think it's unfair. it just doesn't really reflect my own experiences. the women i know are not helpless creatures that are playing the "damsell in distress" card. that might have been true for vilars generation. but i want it to be about women today. and i know most of the girls i know would (for example) change their tires on their own without a second thought. her main complaint is that women are lazy pieces of shit that play dumb and incapable to get men to do th dirty work for them. which some do, undoubtedly. but i don't think it's very accurate anymore. i want it to be broader and less antiquated

i guess the main thing i'd want to do different that vilar is to not manipulate the readers opinion about the insights he gets. i just want the pure train of thoughts and then let the reader make of it whatever he wants. it's not my job to tell the reader what to think.

It's pretty accurate still imo. I know lots of women give up on finding something with pockets still, and those that do have pockets in their skirt/pants tend not to have "utility knife" high on the list of things its likely to contain.

I know more girls change their own tires, but I think amongst the ones who would turn down a male who offered to help with it, there's a paranoia of males driving it- i.e. they're probably turning it down because they believe the male might be an uncontrollable animal, or because they need to prove their independence, which are not reasons any male would turn down help. They also bitch about it more, and I know more girls who have got a man to pay for their mechanic than I know boys who got a woman to pay for their mechanic. The second's a non-entity, while the first is a common enough phenomenon.

Even if you think about the sugar daddy websites and shit propping up everywhere, and most women reporting still they intend to rely financially on a man in retirement, it's hard to ignore a lot of women are willing to use men in ways men would never dream of.

Most people who tell me they know strong women are just unaware of when their female friends damsel to them in my experience. Give your female friends some points for shrewdness, because they hide it better than a sugarbaby.

i don't wear clothes with extra pockes either. but i have an army knive in my handbag. women donmt have to do everything the same as men for it to be valid...

to stay with the example:
i know i've changed my tires on my own not because i could not have been getting male help or because i was paranoid about random guys being serial killers. i did so because i can do it myself just fine and there's no need to bother others with it. just because i could delegate doesn't mean i will.
it might be to some degree that i'm not willing to be dependent. because wtf would you do if your tires need changing in the middle of nowwhere and nobody you can ask for help? sit on the ground and wallow in selfpitty? i don't know if independence is not something guys would also strive for. i'd say so. ofc it would be silly to turn down help if you actually need it just to not "need help". but turning it down because you actually don't need it seems legitimate.
to get back tl the one instance i changed my bloody tire, just when i was finished, an elderly man stopped and asked if i need any help. i thanked him for his offer but told him i'm already finished. he didn't believe me and insisted on cheking if the bolt are secured correctly. he then drove of in utter disbelieve.

i get that i wonmt be able to represent ALL woman. but that's not my goal either. i might only be able to portray myself with 100% accuracy. which sucks but is true. i can only assume things about other women or take their word for it.

i don't deny that there are women that are more than willing to just lean back and sleep comfortably on their mens money. but what i want to do is show that there's variety. i mean, i'm not completely innnocent in those regards either.
it's also not my goal to portray the prot as a saint. i want it to be like reading the mind of a somewhat average girl that isn't on the far end of being a gold digger, a dyke or a princess. something from all worlds would go in.

i never said the women i rever to are strong women. but i know some of them pretty well (my sister for example). don't glorify them. they (and i...) do a fair share of typical female bullshit and i would definitely use that.

>complains a lot about changing tire
>thinks a second pair of eyes is harmful
you know it's completely normal to get guys to move your apartment for you and women do it openly as an abuse of the male obligation as described in the book. the memes it's talking about aren't extreme or bitter, and i don't know why you're trying to disconfirm them when anything approaching a normie would know them. i think if you want to make it about an average girl, you're not going to make it honest. i think you're trying to write a mary sue tbph, and one with little self awareness

it was the example vilar used first in her book so i went with that.

if a second pair of eyes would be usefull, then the help wouldn't be unnecessary. sometimes it just doesn't need a second pair of eyes. (for example if my bf insists on carrying the groceries on his own if we could just split the bags and be done with it).
if someone's moving, i consider it normal that you help each other. not related to gender. when my brother moved, i onviously went and helped him just the same as he helped me when i moved. what's your point? that only males should help males and females can only help females or else it is some sort of abuse? really?

we'll see about that. might be that my idea is stupid and the exectution turns out horrible but that won't keep me from giving it a try.

one thing i noticed about vilar that i dislike; she's quick to judge people. males are stupid and females are manipulative.
i think there's a difference between calling someone an idiot and telling him he's acting like an idiot.

i'm saying your reaction is much like the female norm vilar describes, and which i gave examples of, and not the reaction of male or even a female without manipulation.

i think you're quick to judge vilar because you're aware she's right and if you admit that shit still is normal, you might have to do something about it. i think you're dismissing a fairly obvious reality which is well detailed in its observations as a reactionary move. i don't think your goal is honesty at all considering that, or that "bitter" doesn't sound judgmental.

it's kind of incredible you don't want to give females agency in that regard but want to insist on their agency. if a 140lb male asked his male friends to help him move the reaction would be much different to a 140lb female, on average. if you want to write about averages, you don't try to make out the average is an abnormal case which doesn't happen any more. that's just dumb and will come across as unrealistic, not just dishonest.

Are you racist op?

OP, this here () is the issue with writing such a book.

If you write something that doesn't match all the expectations and cliches espoused by the MGTOW group, your work will be decried as inauthentic and dishonest.

If you do write something that appeals to their stereotypes, you will be being inauthentic and dishonest to yourself.

The only winning move is not to play.

The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar
Read it.

My man.

>If you write something that doesn't match all the expectations and cliches espoused by the MGTOW group
>user must be male
OP's already made us all girls for the purposes of this discussion. You're an idiot if the best retort you have is "it must be because a MAN wrote it", so fuck off, Suzie.

Reading comprehension. Get some.

Revise your sentence fragments, Suzie.

>one thing i noticed about vilar that i dislike; she's quick to judge people. males are stupid and females are manipulative.
You're missing the point. Do you understand the word "generalizing", or the term "reading between the lines"? It's been a while since I've read the book but I'm fairly certain that at least in one place does she specifically clarify that what she's talking about cannot be applied to any and all women. You should look at that she writes about, all the parts about manipulation in regards to what women do and all the parts about the willful act of being manipulated in regards to what men do, and think of it in levels, or layers. What she is generally describing is the perfect ideal of what she considers to be the female manipulation, and the perfect ideal of the manipulated male. In real life, it will all blend together in various ways, with some women using some of the forms of manipulation to a certain degree, and others to another degree, same with men and exactly how much they are willing to be manipulated, so to say.

>man thinks he knows how the "average girl" is like
It could work, but only if you have female friends and a great capacity for accurate observation and empathy.

OP here, i'm going to a family gathering, so i won't reply for a while but i hope the thread will still be around when i'm back. i'd like to keep this discussion up. it's been very helpfull so far

Hitler's Furies
- shows women are liable to the same insanity as men without the fetishistic sensationalism associated with nazi women. Objectively there is very little more to discover/expose of the female mind than there is of the male mind. It is a mere matter of perspective.

Just write a book you edgy fag, stop making excuses for why people dont like it before you made it.

Men ARE supposed to do manual and other sorts of work for women, but feminists ruined them by making girls all ungrateful cunts.

>brutally honest book about the female

>womyn r simply infirior

>t. user

There, I saved you the trouble. Go earn millions.

It kind of makes me think, "Oh....I see why guys used to repress women and subjugate them. Look what happens when you give them everything they want and let the free, they just become whiney cunts who still hate you."

I agree that Aester seems bitter and he writing is everything but distant. She just generates sympathy, but I very well believe she believes what she wrote.

But why do YOU want to shame lions that they kill baby gazelles? It's just biology. Or maybe you don’t. But for some reason I doubt your intentions.
Please describe your own involvement that makes you think of this topic, and who do you know that agrees one the “actual mean-ness” of women.

>and i know most of the girls i know would (for example) change their tires on their own without a second thought.
Women use Tinder to get free food ordered and sent to them and also invite men to fix stuff in their apartment - without the intention of having sex with those guys/without being attracted to those guys profiles.
And men enjoy "doing". And men like being the "heroes". (And hope or expect sex too, of course.)
So that surely is still happening a lot.