I don't get it, why is suffering a good thing? And are mostly devout christians saying it like that...

I don't get it, why is suffering a good thing? And are mostly devout christians saying it like that? I know Dosto and Kierkegaard do, but why?
Suffering=physical or emotional pain=bad.
?

it's not the suffering, it's how you learn to deal with the suffering that's the good thing.

>pain = bad
chucked

read C&P

Redemption from sin (your own and others) is obtained through suffering

...

yeah like alcoholism and suicide and personality disorders

But I am! At page 685 atm and Porifi
said that stuff that's why I made this thread!
How about not having sins and not suffer in the first place, they are like "damn it feels good to not have this pain anymore" but I say "damn it feels good to never have pain in the first place"

>original sin
Even without original sin though, everyone sins.

Also, redemption for the sins of others (you see this in the sequel, the karamazov brothers).

#_#

read it through, the epilogue doesn't hand it to you or make it obvious, but it becomes clear that suffering is the catalyst for strength, patience, and ultimately love

My interpretation from reading The Brothers Karamazov was that dosto believed that suffering was what humbled us and is what equalized us. I don't think it was viewed as a good thing necessarily, but it was viewed as something necessary and a part that comes with everyday life.

Pain is what causes growth. A bit of heartache is good for the soul. Makes people stronger, by dealing with said pain, and realizing that they are capable of more.

That would be a very unhealthy way of dealing with your suffering.

Believe it or not, there's actually very healthy, very inspiring, and very good ways of dealing with it that cause you to actually grow and mature as a person.

To feel existential angst is to be truly human

I think its as simple as that

You hold simple hedonistic ideas. Enjoyment = good, pain = bad. Well that just doesn't have to be true.

>How about not having sins and not suffer in the first place, they are like "damn it feels good to not have this pain anymore" but I say "damn it feels good to never have pain in the first place"
In the latter situation, you don't really realize what you have avoided. You have to suffer to understand what God really offers. It's contrast, a sort of before-and-after commercial (except that it's on a spiritual level, ongoing within you).

That's how I see it at least, as an atheist.

>Believe it or not, there's actually very healthy, very inspiring, and very good ways of dealing with it that cause you to actually grow and mature as a person.

Could you elaborate on any of them?

Like....being a man? Learning to handle adversity, maybe even conquering it? Or taking your pain and suffering, and turning it into some form of art?

> (You)
>Like....being a man? Learning to handle adversity, maybe even conquering it? Or taking your pain and suffering, and turning it into some form of art?

Sorry I thought you had something enlightening to say about ways to cope with suffering instead of a stereotyped, meaningless answer

You realize it's your responsibility to provide your own answers, right?

Doctors without Borders
Fireman
Policeman

Everyday heroes that translate their suffering into helping others and saving lives. It's beautiful honestly.

You're a fucking arrogant ass. God doesn't owe anything to you, and nobody is going to give you a magical answer to fix your problems and issues. You've got to learn it by yourself.

>You realize it's your responsibility to provide your own answers, right?

Yes, and part of that task consists in listening to what others have to say.

I guess when it comes to suffering experience is key: on one side you can get a valuable insight from someone who has dealt with many tough experiencies. On the other hand, lack of experience could result in a poor coping response

>Yes, and part of that task consists in listening to what others have to say.

is it...?

>>You've got to learn it by yourself.

Yes.


>is it...?

Well, not necessarily, but it could be useful.

Actually, it's not his responsibility, since it was you (or maybe someone else, can't tell because anonymous) who introduced the notion that there were plenty of healthy ways to deal with suffering that make you grow. He obviously didn't know, which is why he asked the question. You pretended to provide it, but in reality you just said something meaningless and trite

>DUDE JUST BE A FIREMAN LMAO

teach me

...

nurses too, and some therapists/psychs (although most are assholes who learned everything they know from lectures and textbooks).

If you're going to dismiss the examples of people that translate their suffering into something beautiful then shut the fuck up and stay in /r9k/ complaining about how senseless is your life.

He doesn't have to grow. Nobody really cares if he doesn't. God probably doesn't either.

Nobody owes him an explanation, or sets a path in front of them to follow.

It's called freedom. being a free person has quite a bit of drawback, the main being that everything is up to you. This can also be a massive strength if used correctly, but can also make someone a useless, demanding, entitled pile of shit.

If you want, go ahead and believe that life is all suffering, there's no way out of it, there's no way to assuage it, so you should in turn do nothing and become an alcoholic or such, to cope. Nobody ultimately cares if you do that.

Personally...i've been there, and seen where that leads you, so I wouldn't recommend it. But I don't really care if you don't believe me. Everything in your life is up to you.

I never pretended to have the answers, you did. I can criticize your shitty quarter-assed responses all I want

Nobody does owe him anything, but one user was enough of a faggot to pretend that he had the answers, but of course when asked to elaborate he had to either own up to the fact that he was bullshitting or try to pathetically turn the tables with muh 'I don't owe you nuthin'

>worshiping a dead kike on a stick who is a passive aggressive slave idolizer

So you don't provide an answer by yourself and instead try to tear down anything your interlocutor says? Have you considered that the point of a conversation is not that? Your arrogance is too big.

what answers?

Stating that there's people in life that find healthy ways to deal with suffering?

Is that some sort of revelation? You can pick up tons of books and find examples of great books written by people who found this to be true, or wrote about characters who found this. You can watch youtube videos of tons of people who are genuinely content in life, despite their suffering. You can go to the grocery store and ask content looking people about it too. This is not news here...

If you want to know the answers as to how you can do it, then only you can answer it.

I'll start you off because you seem a slow learned.

Question 1: Where do you want to be in life?

Question 2: Why aren't you there?

If you read a book and didn't enjoy it, are you allowed to tell somebody you didn't think it was good? Or do you have to write your own superior book in order to be allowed to speak?

For a "folksy" "common sense" kinda guy you sure write like a spooked teen

Dang, that sure stung.

1. This isn't a criticism buffet where you get to tear down any of your opponents arguments without making one of your own.
2. Provide a meaningful answer. Until now you've only made nonsensical excuses.

>2. Provide a meaningful answer. Until now you've only made nonsensical excuses.

Cool. Then you're right. 100%. There's no people in life at all who can actually cope with their suffering, not that there would be any value in doing so if they could.

So there you go. that's the answer you want.

>dude it's physically impossible for me to deal with suffering lmao
Weakling

well there's the whole penance thing that many sects believe in to some degree, and there have been many influential people that tried to make Christianity all about guilt and you can imagine how that affects people, but a lot of it, I would say over half, is in believing that enduring suffering makes you a better person-- makes you stronger, makes you appreciative, makes you careful, makes you want to really experience life, makes you want to help others who are suffering, etc.

>Increscunt animi, virescit volnere virtus
Heh... Remember that... Kidd...

>Fag: God! There's no answers in life, this is bullshit!
>God: There's plenty of answers, look around, people find them all the time.
>Fag: So fine! Tell me then!
>God: well I gave you a free mind, it's a really great thing, you can use it to find your own answers, you don't need me.
>Fag: No! YOU tell me the answers!
>God: I don't haveto. Actually, motherfucker I gave you a free mind...which is kind of a lot, so I think I did enough here....
>Fag: So great! Tell me the answers.
>God: Dude....ok fine, there's no answers, there you go.
>Fag: See! Told you there's no answers!

Actually, it is a criticism buffet. Since you said you had answers and I didn't claim to. Your responses were shit and were not at all thought-out. I don't have better ones, but your answers are still shit regardless. The fact that I don't have answers doesn't make your pretend answers not shit.

>Since you said you had answers

i did...?

>people who haven't lived a comfy NEET life like me and may have actually had problems that I am not aware of are all just weaklings lmao. Just grow a pair life's not that hard!

That's a cool opinion. When are you publishing your manifesto?

this user did >That would be a very unhealthy way of dealing with your suffering.
>Believe it or not, there's actually very healthy, very inspiring, and very good ways of dealing with it that cause you to actually grow and mature as a person.

He did not elaborate (unless he was the guy who just responded with 'be a fireman'), so it's apparent that he was full of shit. I'm allowed to call him out for being full of shit without being required to supply my own set of answers, since I never claimed to have any in the first place

get out of Veeky Forums

I don't see where he, (actually me, but no idea who you're really talking about anymore), claims to have, "Answers". Not really sure what you even mean by answers anymore.

So....you're saying that nobody in life finds good ways of dealing with suffering?

Original sin = kids are egocentric cunts. It's unavoidable.

Getting over that is sublime, makes the world a better place. It involves a willingness to be annihilated, a terrifying concept for the ego. It always includes suffering or some sort.

t. Not a Christian, but they did the best they could in a retarded age.

No, I'm saying that I don't know of any 'healthy, inspiring' way to 'deal' with existential despair that isn't just predicated on distracting yourself from thinking (which is not my idea of healthy). People who might be sad that take up running to get not-sad, or somebody who is concerned about starving children who joins Doctors without Borders are not at all what I'm talking about, because for all I know their despair is not the same as mine, and simply participating in an activity that releases endorphins or getting a job where you help people would not be a viable strategy to alleviate what is mostly existential suffering and constant feelings of meaninglessness that are not alleviated by forcing an arbitrary purpose onto one's life

Catholic tradition is really obsessed wth suffering, sacrifice, and martyrdom
I say this coming from a catholic background and even I get these "sacrificial" impulses a lot where I feel I need to punish myself in order to reach higher attainment.

When you think about it though, exasperating your own suffering is a bit silly and only acts as a distraction from the real legitimate suffering you have in your life.
You create suffering you can control in order to avoid confeonting what you think you cannot.

Remember Socrates/Plato said: What you can't understand is that to me, the best life is a life spent asking about how to live a good life.

t. letzter mensch
>retarded age
Wrong, back to ribbit

Kek, are you one of those people who thinks progress has been a bad thing? What has any of this got to do with rebbit? You just seem like a thoughtless buzzword spammer to me.

>No, I'm saying that I don't know of any 'healthy, inspiring' way to 'deal' with existential despair that isn't just predicated on distracting yourself from thinking (which is not my idea of healthy

Maybe that's why you're not where you want to be in life. Naturally, because you haven't found your answers, and probably haven't even looked for them, then in your eyes nobody else could possibly have either. You've tried nothing, and nothing works to solve your suffering. Surely everyone else is in the same situation as you.

>Kek
>progress
>buzzword
>spammer

yeah, I'm definitely the one doing that

...

>we've tried nothing, and we're all out of options.

Care to respind properly to the point then? I'm interesting to know why you would argue that the age of early Christianity was less retarded than now?

People who think suffering is "good" are edge lords who misunderstood Nietzsche

...

Nietzsche has extremely little to do with this concept

>probably haven't even looked for them
>You've tried nothing

Actually, it's practically the only thing I think about, and I've tried myriad strategies. Exercise, therapy, medication, volunteering, drugs, trying to be more social. It doesn't solve my fundamental problems, which are not serotonergic or related to personal purposelessness

Reading is the only thing that helps, and that's mostly just because I can commiserate with minds greater than my own, who can give voice to experiences I feel I share but can never articulate

>Exercise, therapy, medication, volunteering, drugs, trying to be more socia

I've bet you've tried everything, except what you know you need to do.

I don't care about your life story btw, I don't care if you ever do find your answers, almost nobody does....except maybe you.

Honestly doing these sorts of things without the spiritual backing behind them really just turns them into hollow ritual

cool, i'm sure you're right. you're always right.

I'm only telling you because you're dismissively making assumptions about my life, like this one

>I've bet you've tried everything, except what you know you need to do.

Easy there, Dr. Phil. Keep being a spiritual guru

>I don't get it, why is suffering a good thing?

Stockholm syndrome basically

What is the spiritual backing if not the certainty that this other user says he already doesn't have? What a stupidly circular argument.

>Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Suffering Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away From The Sadness Like Nigga Close Your Eyes Haha

just like I instantly knew you were an unhappy person by reading your first post.

Way off on that one.

I bet you have trouble believing that people can see right through you, and they avoid you because they can see right away that you're an exceptionally unhappy and unpleasant person. They avoid you because they don't want you dragging them into your awful little world, that you've imprisoned yourself in, where you're always right, everyone thinks exactly as you do, nothing ever gets accomplished, and happiness is never found, and nobody else could possibly live differently.

The real question is: if god loves humans so much, then why does he let them suffer?

>inb4 "muh free will!"

This is not an answer.

Assuming you are right, user, do you honestly think you are helping him right now? Honestly you seem like a miserable shit yourself. So much vested interest in proving that you are wise and that existential problems can be solved. Maybe try offering something more constructive than "you're wrong."

why do they let themselves suffer?

I did. He says it's not possible. So...

They are not really suffering. Above the suffering they are blissful. The suffering is just another move in the dance.

>pain=bad
This is actually the limit of the intelligence of normies

Progress is a buzzword, it doesn't exist.

What was your advice? I can't tell who is who but so far it has just been "look for answers" and "be spiritual." Fucking pleb tier vague self help ranting platitudes.

Oh, so you think all times are equal? If you had the choice to be reincarnated into the same time of your death or medieval times you'd not have a care?

Yes it is an answer, read more you child.

>reincarnated
I'm not a Pagan

Actually I've never assumed that everyone thinks like me or is incapable of finding happiness. I'm sure people have their own problems, and I'm sure people find effective ways of dealing with them. But they are not my problems, and their strategies do not work for me. I do think that it's unlikely that people can see 'right through me,' just as I think it's unlikely anybody can see right through anybody because we all have different contextual qualia of experience. It is you who holds that believe, as you've demonstrated time and again by making assumptions about me that are without fail ridiculous and incorrect. It seems you have the desperate need to try to sum up the world into a convenient definition, which might not be the case but that's how it seems to me, and that is a common thing that a lot of people do. But it will hold you back from ever empathizing with people, and you'll exist in a combative, dismissive state of misunderstanding for your entire life

Find your answers.

Don't want to find your answers? Ok...then stop bitching.

Once again, nobody owes you an answer to your gay ass problems, they're your problems, it's your responsibility to solve them. If you don't solve them, nobody will. You're the only one who can. You have that freedom, you can sit around and suffer the rest of your life, or find your way out.

If you don't, nobody cares. You're just another of the trillions who didn't.

I obviously can't tell you what the solutions to YOUR problems are, as I obviously don't know them, and I don't particularly even care what they are, as I have my own to work on.

If you look around the world, you might notice that are a lot of people who have found their answers, however, if you doubt that it can be done.

It's called a hypothetical. Obviously you don't know yourself enough to answer it.

There is no answer is an answer. And you are here talking about yours just as much as he.

Get the fuck over yourself.

>pain=good
>normies

This is actually the limit of the intelligence of teenagers

dude just psychoanalyze urself lmao xDDDDD

Don't you have a party to go to, sorority whore?

I don't fall for meme hypotheticals. State it free of '''''spiritual''''' ideology or fuck off.

I did that too. I asked the question two ways. How about you fuck off, seeing as you clearly are not interested in discussion.

>If you had the choice to be reincarnated into the time in which you developed all your relative faculties of adaptation, would you live in that time or a different time in which you can't possibly imagine what it would have been like to live in?

Yeah, great question user

>he said normies think pain is absolutely bad so therefore he must think it's an absolute good
Fuck off normie

Completely missing the point, samefag.

If you want that to be the answer, then there you go.

So there you go, there's no way out, and you'll suffer for the rest of your life, and never find anything different.

>discussion is good
More pagan ideology.
Not same, sorry sorority whore.

Don't you have some vagina ethics paper to complete?

How are you not getting that I'm not that other user? I just think (while we're doling out life advice) if your worldview lends itself to this much of a vapid arrogance then it needs a little fine tuning.

A aaah, this must be one of those Internet Trolls people have warned me about. A rare sighting!

If you don't care so much about that user's problems, why do you keep spewing out Anthony Robbins-tier life hax as if they mean anything, and repeatedly going on in post after post about how nobody owes anybody any answers?

It seems you care a lot more than you pretend to

>other user