Help me understand why everyone claims this man was a quasi-prophet. So...

>"STATISTICS" instead of actually thinking
What? You are deliberately obfuscating the issue. Statistics are useful because it is the only way we can generalize to the public.. facts > hypothetical thinking.

Instead of telling me how nuanced Nietzsche is, you sure don't bring many arguments to the table frogposter.

i bet you legitimately use international happiness indices in arguments

>Me: using statistics to measure how religious a population is
>You: throwing out some intuitive bullshit about how there is a decline since the enlightenment

If you are right and I am wrong, then where is the social decline that supposedly ought to accompany the loss of faith? Oh yeah, it doesn't exist. We've murdered God and we are still doing great.

>Statistics
>only way we can generalize to the public

Yep, you're never gonna make it. You should honestly stop reading philosophy.

>facts > hypothetical thinking
"70% of people identify as being religious" is a mostly useless fact when considering true religiosity.

If you don't understand the difference between the average modern day "christian" and the christians who murdered and were tortured to death for jesus you are a complete retard and will never understand philosophical thought

Also, Nietszche clearly stated that true belief in God(s) is a separate thing than mere religiosity.

>>Me: using statistics to measure how religious a population is
wow yeah 50% of the population being christian is basically the same as 50% of the population living in medieval france and when you look at population increase since then means that we're actually having several medieval countries so the belief in god has actually statistically increased!

statistics is for scientists and morons

>w-we are still doing great.

>depression and anxiety at all time high
>lower class, lower IQ people continue to outbreed their superiors
>abysmal government approval ratings in almost all western countries
>trillions in unfunded liabilities/debt in all western countries
>almost half of children born to unwed mothers

These things are all statistically verafiable too, so even a sperg like you might understand

Degeneracy is the product of the Death of God.

When there's no moral systems put in place and nihilism sets in people become Hedonistic.
Pleasure replaces faith and higher powers. Selfish pleasure.
I'm not saying all people are hedonists but a majority of our culture has been affected by it.
You have men and women that have had casual sex rates skyrocket, marriage has stopped being as important which leads to a lack of strong families. A lack of strong healthy families are the basis of any good society.

Without the risk of going to hell or missing out on heaven people sin and believe it or not Sin at a grand scale is bad.

lel only like 120 aphorisms into The Gay Science and it's scary how many of them he hit on the mark

Around 80-ish I believe he talks about truth and knowledge becoming so common that eventually the elite will turn to folly and everyone will prefer that instead of the bland truth.

that one is still scary

>Without the risk of going to hell or missing out on heaven people sin and believe it or not Sin at a grand scale is bad.

Oh dear, the christians are at it again

>depression and anxiety at all time high
Doubtful. You'd be more depressed and anxious if you lived in the Victorian era.
>lower class, lower IQ people continue to outbreed their superiors
What is superior here? You certianly don't place value on a human life according to IQ, no? The majority of people have always been dumb and will always be that way. In fact, the mean IQ of Western population has actually increased so there's that, dummy.
>abysmal government approval ratings in almost all western countries
Uh what? Yeah, nobody likes Trump but many presidents before him had good ratings. I don't know too much about Europe, but considering Merkel has been in power for over a decade it seems she's well liked.
>trillions in unfunded liabilities/debt in all western countries
And this is somehow related to faith? Come again?
>almost half of children born to unwed mothers
[citation needed]

See this is a better argument I think. I agree with you that we've become more sexually "liberated" and we've given women so much power now that even a fetish like cuckolding has gone mainstream. This is really bad for the stability of a society. I'd be interested in exploring this argument without the need for God, though.. I gotta make some food first.

The Greeks, Hegel, Kant, Marx, Lacan, Zizek. don't bother with other philosophers, they will just lead you either astray on seeped in bullshit.

>You'd be more depressed and anxious if you lived in the Victorian era.
So you no longer care about statistics? You are a failure and a retard by your own standards

Im done responding to you

>Uh what? Yeah, nobody likes Trump but many presidents before him had good ratings. I don't know too much about Europe, but considering Merkel has been in power for over a decade it seems she's well liked.
Yep never had any hope of understanding nietszche in the first place

Not even religious boy-o

>I'd be interested in exploring this argument without the need for God, though..

That was what Nietzsche attempted to do. Create a structure for people to live a fruitful life without the need for a god.

>nihilism is the same thing as hedonism
>hedonism is the same thing as selfish pleasure
>vague claim about "majority of the culture" being concretely effected by a thing
>unjustified, unreasoned claims about the "good society" which isn't even a real thing anyway
>capped with the classic claim that "if people weren't treated with carrots and sticks like mules they would stop believing in my beloved nonsense!"

W E W L A D

>Not even religious boy-o
Yes, you are. You have christian values inculcated into you, it doesnt matter if you pray or accept him as your savior.

People where I live aren't religious. Many people identify as Christians, but they do not take it seriously at all. I do not even know anybody who goes to church.

So many people have fallen to nihilism. You may think that since there are not just a bunch of meme grade nihilists running around that nihilism is not prevalent, but nihilism manifests itself in different ways. Look into Nietzsche's last man and I am fairly sure that you will be able to think of and identify many of them around you.

>nihilism is the same thing as hedonism
Nihilism leads to hedonistic behavior much more often than not

>hedonism is the same thing as selfish pleasure
Hedonism is about maxmizing self pleasure, are you arguing that that's not selfish?

>capped with the classic claim that "if people weren't treated with carrots and sticks like mules they would stop believing in my beloved nonsense!"

I think you overestimate the ability for people to create their own values and rely on their inner compass.

Why? Because I believe in the family unit? Because I believe that one shouldn't be a hedonist and instead contribute to society?

How is any of that purely Christian?

Because you fell for the sin and heaven/hell meme

Also fell for the "selfish pleasure" meme

I live in Texas and literally EVERYONE goes to church here. nice anecdote kid

>Nihilism leads to hedonistic behavior much more often than not
Vague statement that can't be verified by deduction or induction
>Hedonism is about maxmizing self pleasure, are you arguing that that's not selfish?
Learn the difference between "maximizing selfish pleasure" and "maximizing sensual pleasure." Hedonism advocates the latter. Yes, I am saying that hedonism is not "selfish," because it isn't. It posits that pleasure is a good.
>I think you overestimate the ability for people to create their own values and rely on their inner compass.
I think you're a poncy decadent slave-moralizing fuckboy. Have I "overestimated" or "underestimated"?

figured this would be a good thread to ask

can anybody explain what the adjective "Nietzschean" is supposed to mean? I'm familiar with his ideas but don't really understand the usage of that word

you sound really angry, have you sorted yourself out lately?

>slave morality
>bad
Nice spook fag

>Nice
Spooky

>stating that someone is a slave-moralizer is the same thing as judging their morality on the basis of morality
This is like equating the statement "That's a pig" with "It's bad to be a pig."

Thanks for the rare Stirner though, into the folder it goes

I inferred that the poster was saying it was bad.

nominalist
anti-realist
historicist

>infering what wasnt even implied

Looks like you spooked yourself kiddo

I am that poster, you inferred incorrectly. I mean, I don't think it's "bad" in the sense that it's "morally wrong," that would be silly; I'm not so euphoric I put on my leather fedora, leather trench coat, and leather fingerless gloves to go outside and tell Christians that they're not allowed to be Christian.

I do, on the other hand, laugh at them if they try to argue in favor of their position, and call them mean names on Veeky Forums because their reactions are sometimes funny, and Veeky Forums is really the only place one can hurl malicious insults with impunity. And Nietzsche came up with some pretty good insults

>Going to church and identifying as a Christian doesnt a true believer make, very few christians actually believe in the bible and are willing to die/kill/live for it.

Do you have any proof that every christian before the enlightenment truly believed in God? If you do not, how do you know that the rate of christian that believe in God today is any different?

thanks senpai

>>depression and anxiety at all time high
>>lower class, lower IQ people continue to outbreed their superiors
>>abysmal government approval ratings in almost all western countries
>>trillions in unfunded liabilities/debt in all western countries
>>almost half of children born to unwed mothers

All this has been true for the majority of human history.

Its almost as if humans were better off in prehistoric times?

Hmmm really made me think

i guess we better go back to the good ol' times when we had to crawl to work at a coal mine!!! yay

kill yourself faggot

No, you are the one who is spooked. I am correct in my assessment, now silence my property.

It is fun to laugh at christfags but I also find it fun to laugh at Nietzsche and his obsession with life affirmation. Don't you? But Nietzche did have some wicked banter

Thus Spoke Zarathustra should.be in the.Bible after new testament

How do you know if there is no history to be had?

>my
s p o o k y

Instinct, remembering past lives, etc

I never said I believed in heaven or hell
Hedonism can say that it's not selfish but there's no society that could support it besides Some kind of Huxley-like nightmare state

Never implied you did, youre an unnuanced idiot

>Hedonism can say that it's not selfish but there's no society that could support it besides Some kind of Huxley-like nightmare state
>he thinks any relevant information can be gleaned from this clusterfuck of a statement

First off, let me say again that hedonist ethics are not "selfish." Hedonists believe that sensual pleasure is the highest moral good. They explicitly remove the "self" from the equation and focus instead on what is "generally good" for "all humans."

Secondly, the way you're using "selfish" is the Christian way, so you're probably spooked in some sense. Stirner explains this pretty well:
>Selfishness,[Eigennutz, literally “own-use”] in the Christian sense, means something like this: I look only to see whether anything is of use to me as a sensual man. But is sensuality then the whole of my ownness? Am I in my own senses when I am given up to sensuality? Do I follow myself, my own determination, when I follow that? I am my own only when I am master of myself, instead of being mastered either by sensuality or by anything else (God, man, authority, law, State, Church, etc.); what is of use to me, this self-owned or self-appertaining one, my selfishness pursues.

Thirdly, what "society can support" is of no concern whatever to me.

>discarding our old Gods leaves us vulnerable to nihilism
But it doesn't. A religious person is no less vulnerable to nihilism than an atheist. This was the entire point of Nietzsche's philosophy about life-affirming vs life-denying. You're actually nihilist no matter what, and it's just a matter of whether you realize it or not. If you think, then you are nihilist(unless you are ubermensch). If you don't think, then you are incapable of assigning meaning. Either way, there is no meaning. The kind of regressive mentality that
>discarding our old Gods leaves us vulnerable to nihilism
may lead to is pure nostalgia; it's recalling something that never actually happened.

>My life used to have meaning
Doesn't logically follow from
>I now think there is no meaning, and I didn't used to think that there was no meaning
Not thinking about meaning at all is not the same thing as having meaning.

The stereotypical Texan is a religious retard in cowboy boots who never bothers to leave Texas. Nice anecdote, nobody has proven anything.

Slave morality is for slaves, which is not in of itself bad. But do you consider yourself a slave?

>Hedonism can say that it's not selfish but there's no society that could support it besides Some kind of Huxley-like nightmare state
>he thinks any relevant information can be gleaned from this clusterfuck of a statement

You get a society built around happy pills, orgies and constant stimulation because it's the "best pleasure for people" you can argue that this is good if you want

>Thirdly, what "society can support" is of no concern whatever to me
That's unfortunate, but your choice. I thought Stirner worshipping on lit was a meme.

so nietzsche thought we're all bunch of nihlisists deep down and we make up shit, be it science or religion, to keep us from thinking about how life has really no meaning?

na man, fuck that mentality. that's assuming life has no meaning in itself, but that's just a hypothesis.

>You get a society built around happy pills, orgies and constant stimulation because it's the "best pleasure for people" you can argue that this is good if you want
Yeah, and history shows us how good religion is at preventing this.

But there is meaning. That was the point of
>(unless you are ubermensch)

It does
What are you referring to?

did he ever explain how one gets to be ubermensch or was it just some poppsych bullshit like "actualize the self"

ITT: people who've never read nietzsche argue with those who've shallow read nietzsche

Nietzsche talks about the serious decline in the ability of people to be able to truly believe in God. Most religious people today do not come to their faith through in depth knowledge of source material and internal reflection of God. Moreover, the line between religion and politics has blurred, so much so that some believe belief in one constitutes belief in the other, distorting the true meaning of faith (see Americans, the Christian lobby, the entirety of Israel).

God loses his meaning when one conflates religion with other things, and then follow the other things.

How many "Christians" that you know have read and digested even a basic amount of the western Canon? Most have yet to read the Bible. The meaning of God and religion is not found in politics or any other discipline, but in the true study and internal deliberation. Nietzsche disdained the true lack of faith he noticed between "believers", and when he says that God has died, he means mankind as a whole has lost the ability to identify what God actually is.

>You get a society built around happy pills, orgies and constant stimulation because it's the "best pleasure for people" you can argue that this is good if you want
>That's unfortunate, but your choice. I thought Stirner worshipping on lit was a meme.

>he thinks Brave New World was a parable against hedonism, and that it actually happened
>he thinks I'm arguing for hedonism
>he thinks quoting a relevant author is the same as worshiping that author

Oh, I get it, you're retarded. Anything else I have to say would just crash against that non-porous density you call a skull

No one "gets to be" ubermensch, it's just the polar opposite of a stoic sage.

If you believe that life has meaning, you can act on it even without knowing what that meaning is through pursuing instrumental goals. Whatever your goal is, advancing knowledge will make that goal more achievable. So just believing there is a goal at all is enough to give life meaning.

Say that to me on discord

Do you have any relevant quotes, because i'm pretty sure that is contradictory to slave mentality and the will to power.

>A critique of a philosopher you didn't read

Don't post here ever again kiddo.

Fuck off Stirner.
Nothing is bad to you, therefore nothing is good either. Fucking worthless nihilist.

>people asking and using stats while talking about Nietzsche

Anyone here wants to read my emotional intuition to Kant's logic?

This is what Stirner really looked like

yes of course religion still exists

the point is it doesn't mean anything or have any purpose anymore

this is what Nietzsche actually means when he says "God is dead"

He's a shame to philosophy. Luckily, there are some fine lads like Kant, Hegel, Adorno, Marx.

even adorno pays tribute to nietzsche, pls

There are no actual pictures of Stirner, all that remains of his image are those two drawings by Engels.

That picture just comes up on Google Images when you search "Max Stirner".

>shame to philosophy
>only the second most important 19th century philosopher, the first one being Hegel

Pff.

platypus1917.org/wp-content/uploads/readings/nietzscheneed_frankfurtschool_constellations8_1_wiggershaus.pdf

I never approved of his leniency towards Nietzsche. Luckily, we have Lukakcs' text on Nietzsche (it has some Stalinist undertones but the core of his analysis is very accurate).

only good post itt

Actually, yes, we do know that before the Enlightenment, and later on, most people truly believed in God and other supernatural forces. People's attitudes towards these things have drastically shifted and we can observe this is practices that have changed and events like witch trials.

>nice anecdote kid I happen to have an anecdote of my own hehe
Shut the fuck up retard. Religion is not as important to people as it used to be. Here churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html

Sure why not? Just about everyone on this board is.

>Nietzsche predicted the world wars
"The strength to will, and to will one thing for a long time, is ... strongest of all and most astonishing in that huge empire‑in‑between, where Europe as it were flows back into Asia, in Russia. There the strength to will has for long been stored up and kept in reserve, there the will is waiting menacingly ... in readiness to discharge itself.

... I mean such an increase in the Russian threat that Europe would have to resolve to become equally threatening, namely to acquire a single will by means of a new caste dominating all Europe, a protracted terrible will of its own which could set its objectives thousands of years ahead ‑ so that the long-drawn-out comedy of its petty states and the divided will of its dynasties and democracies should finally come to an end. The time for petty politics is past: the very next century will bring with it the struggle for mastery over the whole earth ‑ the compulsion to grand politics."

>Help me understand why everyone claims this man was a quasi-prophet.

as a lover of the absurd, i praise kek daily that i was born in this timeline, where everyday is like a chapter of Celine*

the good celine, by which i mean only Journey

>clash in economic ideologies
It's like we're territorial animals, and our only long term hope is being "sons of God" in some sense.

wtf is up with the text in this post

We can evolve beyond tribalism, the neo of the era hasn't woke up yet. If you can understand the reference as the one who will change our core values.We have change our behavior through what we call revolution.

>We can evolve past evolution

It is a cycle, like a wheel is always comes around.

>retarded unrelated analogies

Wow

Educate me since you know

>We can evolve past evolution
We can certainly evolve beyond certainly evolutionary traits, like tribalism for instance.

Case in point: we had to evolve into tribalism in the first place.

Evolution = Tribalism

Which one you suposse are we in, right now?

No, tribal people always beat non tribal people in competition (basic game theory)

Also, preferring your own children and family is a form of tribalism and the evolutionary advantage of this will never go away

You think evolution end?

No?

Tribalism is a step human can go further.

Thats like saying humans can evolve past having brains

Also: learn English