I am not sure if Veeky Forums is the right place to post this but fuck it, it's related to science/medicine...

I am not sure if Veeky Forums is the right place to post this but fuck it, it's related to science/medicine. Does anyone else become legitimately scared by the disconnect between the pharmaceutical industry and the lack of PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE by the physicians? It's so funny to me that drugs like Ambien (Zolpidem) and Adderall (Dextroamphetamine) are prescribed left and right when literally any sane human being could just take one dose of either of these and conclude that they are an awful idea to give to people. Never mind the fact that the Adderall is prescribed to children more than anything, lol

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>Does anyone else become legitimately scared by the disconnect between the pharmaceutical industry and the lack of PRACTICAL KNOWLEDGE by the physicians?
What?

>literally any sane human being could just take one dose of either of these and conclude that they are an awful idea to give to people
Then don't take them.

>Never mind the fact that the Adderall is prescribed to children more than anything, lol
American health care is strictly for-profit, what else is new

Its like you dont know how capitalism works. Nobody has your best interest in mind other than yourself. Everyone else just wants to make money off you. This is why universal healthcare should be mandatory. Now before anyone goes off on the “muh freedom” rant, consider the following:
If the government has to pay for your medical treatment, they are less likely to allow companies to sell you shit thats bad for your health. It creates a situation where the profits of the most powerful people in the country are dependent on keeping the average American healthy. Things like brominated vegetable oil would be outlawed as food additives overnight. As it stands currently, in the US you cant be denied necessary medical care due to financial ability anyway. Those who cant afford their medical bills just dont pay them. Their credit gets fucked, and the cost gets passed onto the next guy who has insurance or millions in pocket change. Thats why medical costs are so absurd, its not because medical treatment costs tens of thousands to perform. Its because hospitals are buisinesses which nearly everyone needs the services of, but many do not pay for those services. They still need to make a profit to stay in operation, so the costs will be covered somewhere(see everyone else).

can you two faggots keep your /pol/tard autism contained for two seconds and just appreciate the absurdity of giving children dextroamphetamine? or giving grown people ambien? it's a miracle more people aren't driving off cliffs

these
but op is right that the fact that the "doctor" knows little of the prescribed drugs.
ffs i needed to tell my doctor what to prescribe me as in what substances should be put in my anti bacterial cream. ( altho i live in a third world shithole) but still. a fucking doctor should at least know what he/she is doing

there was nothing pol about those two posts tho user. keep calm

>it was a bait thread
You didn't surprise me, mate.

Please, learn to write and express yourself properly. I couldn’t even understand you.

Not that I care, though. What little I can understand of your rant allows me to safely conclude that you are a retard with retarded opinions.

I personally haven't become concerned, becaues I know that in recent decades the field of Biostatistics was created and tons of very well-funded Biostats programs were created with the express purpose of making this knowledge accessible to those in the medical field.

I mean expecting a good response out of the internet hate machine is foolhardy at best.

I think it's weird, OP.

>implying that someone who's entire knowledge base is based on rotely memorized information is interested in anything remotely resembling "truth"
>implying that people become doctors for any reason other than to make mad scrilla while feeling good about themselves that they're helping people
>implying that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't literally bribe doctors to prescribe their products

I feel for ya user. "They know not what they do" and all that, but it's still super fucked up. Do you have any personal experience with physicians/psychiatrists in this context?
You appear to be genuine and intelligent, so my humble advice is to take solace in the fact that you have realized these things, and that most people, including those on this board, will never do so.

I agree with your point about people's best interests etc., but living in Canada, I have the impression that the ways of the pharmaceutical industry are just as prevalent as they are in the states. massive overprescription of anti-depressants, stimulants, narcotic painkillers, etc. Some of you americanos seem to think the grass is not only greener over here, but is in fact perfumed roses and not grass at all.

I realize its not perfect but its a hell of a lot better than the system in the states.

Psychology is a joke, what else is new?

Bipolar, adhd, etc are over diagnosed in kids mainly as a result of shitty teachers and parents.

However, Adderall and Ambien are absolutely fine. They are an effective treatment for people who actually have these disorders.

>can you two faggots keep your /pol/tard autism contained for two seconds and just appreciate the absurdity of giving children dextroamphetamine?

normally, yes. but we live in a hyper-competitive world. if your options are take this drug or fall behind, you take the drug. there's nothing inherently wrong with wanting to reach your potential.

children are rarely prescribed amphetamine anyway, ritalin is usually the first line treatment.

as if ritalin is any better than adderall

it's definitely different. some research suggests that it's a bit safer, from what i can understand.

i get a better vibe from it than amphetamine, although amphetamine is unquestionably more potent.

The government allowing large private businesses to manipulate them to the point of making laws, regulations, and policies that favor the large private businesses only and stifle smaller, more efficient and cheaper ones from popping up and allowing for a true free market to exist is what put is in this situation in the first place. Giving the government complete power over healthcare decisions isn't going to stop medical prices from skyrocketing. It will just transfer all of the debt from the individual to the country at large. Yes, that means the individual isn't going to get buried in debt, but eventually, the country is going to end up imploding under that debt and we're all screwed. This doesn't solve the problem of why medications and procedures are so expensive.
The problem is that private corps and the federal government are too intertwined. This isn't an argument against Medicare and Medicaid, as much as it is against the special interests that use the government to prioritize their company or the large company in their field.
How does the pharmaceutical industry in Canada work as opposed to the industry in the US? Is it completely privatized and how much funding do they get for drug and treatment research? I personally think a big problem with the industry is that, while it is true that they lie about the cost of research, it is still a lot of money to perform said research.

It works pretty much the same way as far as I can tell, because our companies are just
the canadian divisions of the multinational u.s. corps. And physicians here get paid as "consultants" (lmao) too, maybe not to the same degree as the states, but it's still sketchy.

Plus to all the dumbasses who think our gov't mandated health insurance is the solution to everything, the truth is that gov't here doesn't pay for certain things, like psychologists. So anyone with any sort of mental health issue (PTSD,depression, etc..) who could benefit from therapy, instead just gets loaded up with drugs that are prescribed by a GP or psychiatrist. And since the more patients a physician gets through her office, the more money she makes, there is literally zero incentive for physicians to want to change the system for the benefit of patients.

>It works pretty much the same way as far as I can tell, because our companies are just
the canadian divisions of the multinational u.s. corps.
The big problem that pharma corps claim that keeps their prices so high here is the high price of research. Do you think government subsidization into research would work? I can find instances where it possibly could cause problems and stifle innovation, like if they start to dictate what can and cannot be researched. However, just for price controlling, would it work? Even if it is just for rare diseases that don't make the company much money?
>Plus to all the dumbasses who think our gov't mandated health insurance is the solution to everything, the truth is that gov't here doesn't pay for certain things, like psychologists.
I can already see the next argument that they'll make, that psychologists should be covered under government care then. I feel like this puts too much strains on the government's budget, but of course, people will argue that why should that matter when lives are at stake.
>And physicians here get paid as "consultants" (lmao) too, maybe not to the same degree as the states, but it's still sketchy.
>And since the more patients a physician gets through her office, the more money she makes, there is literally zero incentive for physicians to want to change the system for the benefit of patients.
It seems like this is a pretty unsolvable problem without causing other problems. You could force the physicians to do this change, but then you could end up with a lot less people wanting to become a physician, and thus a physician shortage. At that point, the idea usually comes up to subsidize the physician's education. However, if I am a physician, even if the school is free from my perspective, why wouldn't I just go do something else instead of spending 6-10 years living off scraps just to make the same to less money than I would by going into another industry?

basically what said
I have a ton of health problems, and the only medications which I have found to be necessary to my life are antihistamines, epinephrine, albuterol, and occasionally ibuprofen for headache. And that is out of probably a hundred taken. I'm not saying there aren't hundreds of well-researched and effective medications, those are just the ones that matter to me.

Everything else is basically a will it/won't it. GPs and specialists alike use a glorified version of WebMD combined with the stuff the memorized in school, yet are annoyed if you even let on you did a bit of research yourself. Most medications are band-aids. There is little importance placed on prevention, diet, or exercise (as a whole, I know some doctors do talk about that). You basically get a guess, and a drug that might help with what you might have based on that guess. Drug doesn't work? try another one. Maybe they will guess again in a few months. It's horseshit. If they can't make a diagnosis based on hard numbers from a blood/stool work, or various scans or other tests, have fun. Mental health care? hah. You will go from GAD to depression to borderline to panic disorder to add to bipolar to schizo until they find a drug that shuts you up and leaves you a normie brainlet.

They literally do not care about you or what happens to you. Their job is to maintain your status quo or patch up obvious problems. Maybe things are different if you have some top tier insurance. Sorry I just really hate the whole flawed system.

and by system I don't mean privatized vs universal, I mean everything from affirmative action and international students in US universities, to the standard pre-med-med school path, to big pharma's influence, to public education about being as healthy as you can be and knowing when something is actually worth a visit to the doctor

I had a professor once tell me that the medical field isn't for intelligent people, just people with a high capacity of memorization that want to make a lot of money. I always thought she was just spewing salt because maybe she didn't get accepted into med school. After seeing the people that I graduated with who did go to med school and how most GP's and specialists treat you, I don't think that anymore. I think she was right.

I agree that giving amphetamines to children is absurd, but they are a very powerful class of drugs; and therefore, like opiates, they have their uses despite the obvious negative effects. Drugs are dangerous. So are automobiles, heavy machinery, chemical plants, etc. If you know how to use any of these things properly the payoff is worth the risk.

Also take into account that less than 50 years ago, you could buy amphetamine inhalers from any pharmacy in the US (and plenty of other places) without a prescription. Change takes time. On the other hand, 50 years ago, plenty of products contained chemicals which are now known to be toxic and carcinogenic, and amphetamine in comparison is pretty benign.

that's been my experience

>Also take into account that less than 50 years ago, you could buy amphetamine inhalers from any pharmacy in the US (and plenty of other places) without a prescription

tfw junkies ruined it for everyone

>Yes, that means the individual isn't going to get buried in debt, but eventually, the country is going to end up imploding under that debt and we're all screwed.

Oh is that what happened to Canada? Like i said, i know government controlled healthcare isnt perfect, but it makes sense for a government to be financially responsible for the health of the people they govern. Reguardless of what changes need to happen to our healthcare to make that possible, it should be mandatory for all 1st world countries. Otherwise you end up with shit like this
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_LAC
Yes, they didnt know if zinc cadmium sulfide was hazardous to health at the time but they would have made damn sure beforehand if they had to pay for the outcome.

No universal best interest exists
Let interest be constructed privately
Bada bing bada boom

Dixies are an effective treatment for ADHD.

The problem is that every child who rather go run around outside instead of sit in front of a desk studying is diagnosed with ADHD.

Dude what the fuck did you expect when med school is just memorization? No thinking goes into the course!