NASA just released a study which shows going into space causes your epigenetic triggers to go off "like fireworks...

NASA just released a study which shows going into space causes your epigenetic triggers to go off "like fireworks." Methylation is the process by which genes are switched on and off, something we call epigenetics. Travelling into space causes the body to trigger *thousands* of genes, as if we are somehow pre-programmed to recognize the condition and start making radical changes to our bodies.

I think this is the best evidence yet that humanity was deliberately designed, though by who or what I can't say.

Link to the article: nasa.gov/feature/fireworks-in-space-nasa-s-twins-study-explores-gene-expression

Other urls found in this thread:

lmgtfy.com/?q=c elegans clinorotation
phys.org/news/2015-02-worms-space-exploring-health-effects.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design#In_humans
ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19810017132.pdf
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Are you this much of a faggot all the time or just on weekends?

>body reacts differently in microgravity
Who would of thunk.

Is it God punishing us for leaving Earth?

Then why doesn't skydiving or taking rides on rollercoasters cause "fireworks" in your epigenetic triggers?

It doesn't have to be anything supernatural. For instance, it's possible that life was designed by another species, or that we're an ancestor simulation with artificial genes, and that going into space triggers changes to prepare us for the environments we will soon be exploring.

>It's another episode of "Christcuck takes literally anything and uses it as proof of God"

I think gravity is the best evidence that humanity was deliberately designed. Imagine if God had not invented gravity. We would all be flying away! It is such a perfect design!

Or maybe humans are an alien species that colonized Earth millennial ago, has since forgotten or lost all it's advanced technologies, and had genetically adapted to living on Earth via epigenetics.

I'm an atheist, as it happens. But I also think there's a great deal about the nature of being and the purpose of existence we don't understand yet, and there is some intriguing science emerging in every field which is suggesting deeper levels of reality than anything we previously imagined.

Yes, that occured to me too. I know there's an argument that we actually evolved for a Martian environment, and that everything from the frequency of back problems to flat feet shows we're supposed to be living in an environment of lighter gravity.

>Then why doesn't skydiving or taking rides on rollercoasters cause "fireworks" in your epigenetic triggers?
How do you know it doesn't, faggot? And these are not even close to replicating microgravity.

da interesting question would be: is the overall rate of caner in those in space higher than those on earth due to increased rates of gene transcription. if so it would support the idea of cancer arising from an evolutionary adaptation vs knudson's hypothesis

>Then why doesn't skydiving or taking rides on rollercoasters cause "fireworks" in your epigenetic triggers?
lmgtfy.com/?q=c elegans clinorotation
You can see the same sort of effects in worms without needing to send them into outer space using a microgravity simulator that rotates a liquid-filled chamber to give them a free fall environment.

>free fall environment

You mean a zero G environment.
Freefall =/= zero G

Fuck off you pseud.
phys.org/news/2015-02-worms-space-exploring-health-effects.html
>To prepare for worm experiments aboard the ISS, the researchers are using "clinorotation, " which is a ground-based microgravity simulator technique that rotates a liquid-filled chamber in such a way that the worms experience free fall.

So what's the connection and mechanism? Why should microgravity start hammering on your epigenetic switches like a gorilla with a mallet? It's not like microgravity could play any role in ordinary, passive, stochastic evolution.

Clearly worms were deliberately designed by aliens!

t. retard

>So what's the connection and mechanism?
>It's not like microgravity could play any role in ordinary, passive, stochastic evolution.
The gravity as it is on Earth played a role in evolution because successful organisms of the past able to reproduce and have offspring around today necessarily had to be organisms that functioned successfully with that level of gravity. When you put organisms that adapted to Earth gravity into an environment with different amounts of gravity e.g. much less gravity like in space or in a clinorotation device, then their biological processes will get warped in different ways because they're no longer getting the same environmental feedback they were adapted to.
>Why should microgravity start hammering on your epigenetic switches like a gorilla with a mallet?
It doesn't. You have it in your head that this is some deliberate orchestrated process that starts happening, probably because of that shitty fireworks analogy you read about, but it's really more like how your shoelaces gradually get untied when you walk around a lot. Physical processes were adapted to one environment and start to warp / fall into different configurations when taken out of that one environment.

>It's not like microgravity could play any role in ordinary, passive, stochastic evolution.
You fucking idiot, if all evolution of life has taken place under gravity, then we should EXPECT that taking away that constant factor has an effect.

Also, your design argument completely ignores the other known effects of microgravity, like T-cell deregulation. Why would aliens design humans to lose their immune responses and get sick in space?

What are you even trying to talk about? I linked an article that shows clinorotation is used to give worms a free fall environment because you or some other user apparently don't believe that counts as "free fall" when that's exactly what it is.

Sarcasm is not your strong suit.

No, I get that you're using sarcasm, I just don't know why you're using it in response to my post.

I'm making fun of the retarded OP, retard.

Isn't it more about to do with radiation triggering genes than micro gravity? It just goes on to say that now we are even more sure of the importance of radiation shielding in space.

Then reply to a relevant post next time, that has nothing to do with the clinorotation issue I was arguing about.

>Why would aliens design humans to lose their immune responses and get sick in space?
You have it the wrong way around. Travelling between stars in a sterile environment, there's no need for an immune response to hostrile microorganisms. There are none. The epigenetic trigger for manufacturing an immune system protective response comes from the experience of gravity. Remove the gravity, the immune system deactivates.

>You have it the wrong way around. Travelling between stars in a sterile environment
Unfortunately for astronauts, any environment containing humans cannot be sterile. And you didn't answer the question, why design the immune system to be switched on and off by gravity at all? There is no benefit to turning off the immune system in space.

How is it not relevant that by OP's argument, the effect of microgravity on worms would mean that worms are designed?

You're assuming me evolved here. If we evoled elsewhere and travelled here in sterile ships, we didn't need an immune system. Our genes were programmed to begin creating an immune system only once we'd reached our destination.

>Our genes were programmed to begin creating an immune system only once we'd reached our destination.
Again, this makes no sense and fails to address the question. Why do you only want to turn on the immune system once we've reached earth? If we were created in a sterile environment, then there is no downside to having a working immune system which has nothing to operate on until it suddenly does. If we were actually designed intelligently, we would have an immune system that does not care about gravity. The fact that we do is just another piece of evidence on the massive pile of evidence that we were not designed intelligently.

That would make sense if you replied to my first post about worms. You didn't though, you replied a post where I was having an argument with someone about whether it counted as "free fall." That makes me have to try to figure out if you're just the same guy who started that argument making some incomprehensible attempt at a new argument, hence why you should reply to relevant posts instead.

>That would make sense if you replied to my first post about worms.
I replied to your latest post about worms after thinking about why OP is so retard. Who cares? Calm down autist.

>That makes me have to try to figure out if you're just the same guy who started that argument making some incomprehensible attempt at a new argument, hence why you should reply to relevant posts instead.
Yes, that makes perfect sense idiot. I made a joke agreeing with you because I knew that you would turn into a turbo-autist demanding that I only post jokes in response to the first relevant post you make and not the second. Jesus Fucking Christ.

Of course it makes sense. There's even precedent for it. There's a mutation in our myelin which makes us artificially weak compared to most other animals. Gorillas can lift ten times their own weight over their heads with ease. If humans were as strong, we could lift a car over our heads. But we lost all that strength to allow for our big brains, which use up about 30% of all the calories we consume; humans who didn't get the myelin mutation died over repeated famines, leaving only those who had it.

If we came to Earth in generation ships, then energy would be at a premium. Turning off unnecessary biologic systems, especially something as metabolically costly as an immune response, would make total sense.

>I replied to your latest post about worms after thinking about why OP is so retard. Who cares?
I care because I was defending use of the word "free fall" and then you showed up and made an inexplicable attempted insult post meant to be a response for a totally separate context.

>But we lost all that strength to allow for our big brains, which use up about 30% of all the calories we consume
We are not as strong because our bodies are more focused on fine motor control than simply having muscle. Chimps have more muscle but cannot control that muscle well.

>If we came to Earth in generation ships, then energy would be at a premium. Turning off unnecessary biologic systems, especially something as metabolically costly as an immune response, would make total sense.
There is no immune response if there is nothing to react to. You're contradicting yourself. If there was a sterile environment, then there was no immune response and no energy use. If there was not a sterile environment, then immune responses were necessary. Either way, there is no reason to design T-cell regulation to be changed by gravity. It does not take any significant amount of energy to simply have T-cells in the body ready to trigger the immune system. Reduction of T-cells by microgravity can be seen as nothing but a flaw, there is no benefit. See this list for more flaws that disprove intelligent design:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design#In_humans

>I care because I was defending use of the word "free fall"
So what dude? Why are you even having a tantrum over this? Get over it.

It's biosemiotics

Yeah it has nothing to do with receiving 100x the yearly allotted radiation dose over a matter of hours.

wow, radiation makes methylation goes nuts. how obvious.

What if god is radiation?

We're *both* arguing from conclusions, but the difference is I'm trying to craft a hypothesis to account for all the available data. You're simply discarding any data which doesn't fall on your nice straight line as noise. It's intellectually dishonest.

I can conceive of conditions which create the known data. For instance, hypothesize intelligent life which has travelled in space for so long that it has evolved to those conditions, and which seeds intelligence around the galaxy as it goes. They adapt their own genetics to each environment, but do not start from scratch, so that you end up with palimsests of genetic code. They don't need an immune response, but those they seeded here did. But when we re-enter conditions under which our creators evolved, their genetics reassert themselves.

I'm not saying that's the case, but I've created a valid hypothesis which accounts for the known data.

its biosemiotics, an organism needs to minimize free energy and maintain stable baselines to be alive and when something goes out of whack this signals the body to do something about it., meaning the change is interpreted by a sign logic (epigenetics) to mean something
>ordinary, passive stochastic evolution
but evolution isn't passive or stochastic

>Why are you even having a tantrum over this?

He's mad because he thinks that there is gravity in space i.e. free fall

>We're *both* arguing from conclusions, but the difference is I'm trying to craft a hypothesis to account for all the available data.
As I've already shown you, your hypotheses not only doesn't explain shit, it implies the opposite of reality.

>You're simply discarding any data which doesn't fall on your nice straight line as noise. It's intellectually dishonest.
Which data have I ignored? You're projecting.

>They don't need an immune response, but those they seeded here did. But when we re-enter conditions under which our creators evolved, their genetics reassert themselves.
I already addressed this. If they added an immune system to protect us on Earth, then why have it be turned on by gravity? Why not just have it work? The only thing that can explain this is non-intelligent evolution under gravity.

And you have not responded to the fact that we see the same flaws in other organisms. Were worms also designed by aliens? If all life was seeded on Earth by aliens, why would there be diseases and organisms which necessitate an immune response in the first place? None of this shit makes sense, but it all make sense if life evolved naturally, which is and always will be the simplest explanation.

>naturally
What makes intelligent panspermia any less "natural" than four billion years of stochastic collision between particles turning into an iPod? The problem with your naturalistic argument if that Boltzman brains and ancestor simulations are even MORE likely, statistically speaking, than your model of evolution.

Even scientists recognize that reason has limits, and sometimes you have to throw a Hail Mary pass on intuition alone and hope there's something there to catch it. We do this by creating interesting hypotheses which just *feel* right. Having our epigenetic triggers go suddenly and inexplicably haywire the instant we leave the surface of the planet certainly seems significant to me on an intuitive level. Doesn't it seem like that to you?

That is not punishment...This is a reward...
Th-this means we were per-programmed to notice the change...
Like a fish out of water...

W-were we destined for space?

no, radiation is just a mechanic.

There's an argument, possibly a good one, that space is where we came from. Certainly with our bad backs and fallen arches and postural syncope and blown valsalvas, it seems like we aren't well adapted for gravity this strong.

...

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAANIIIIIII!?!??!

*explodes*

>What makes intelligent panspermia any less "natural" than four billion years of stochastic collision between particles turning into an iPod?
The fact that it's not parsimonious and therefore not science.

>The problem with your naturalistic argument if that Boltzman brains and ancestor simulations are even MORE likely, statistically speaking, than your model of evolution.
You have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, Boltzmann brains would be more likely than any universe containing aliens. Second the fact that we don't observe Boltzmann brains indicates it did not originate according to Boltzmann's base assumption of a stochastic process. Third the ancestor simulation argument does not conclude that ancestor simulation is likely, only that it is one of three possible likely conclusions. One can conclude as easily that such a simulation is impossible or unwanted.

>aliens designed our immune system to only work in gravity
>but forgot about our backs
Yeah sure thing buddy.

intelligent design fags btfo

>Then why doesn't skydiving or taking rides on rollercoasters cause "fireworks" in your epigenetic triggers?
i want to see your brain postmortem

literally guarantee there will be missing parts

Some of our biological pathways rely (at least partially) on gravity. Bone morphology for example is surely, among other factors, regulated through pressure excerted by gravitational force. Also, there are many signaling pathways which rely on local blood pressure which instantly changes in microgravity (that's why astronauts get "puffy face syndrome").

Really, there is nothing special about it. Just our biology going nuts when gravity is gone.

>I read an interesting science article, therefore God.

>I'm smart and you're a retard.

Ok, that about covers the thread so far. Anything else?

In the early days of space travel, they were super worried about bringing back space germs. Or that somehow a human being in space would change their DNA someway. For decades we shrugged that initial fear off as childish and impossible. Now NASA says it's all fucking true!!! SPACE GERMS ARE REAL!

which begs the question, is this new "scientific discovery" truly a novel discovery? or is it just science disproving a lie that was told to silence conspiracy theorists and calm people's fears?

I feel like science is so close minded sometimes that anytime a conspiracy theorist suggests something the scientific community dismisses it out of hand and immediately shuts it down and continues to do so even after it's been they've been proven correct.

It's probably caused by radiation, in both a positive and negative sense. Absence of historically near omnipresent range of frequencies, presence of novel frequencies patterns.

NASA already knows this, and has since the 60's.
ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19810017132.pdf

Networks of cells are more or less coupled oscillators. They're regulated by membrane mediated signal transduction and amplification, the bulk of which is based around intercellular resonant frequencies. Altered gravity would affect fluid dynamics and thus may allow a greater effect of magnetism. Membrane bound glycoproteins have charged sialic acid terminals, and being in space would also alter conformational behavior.

>I think this is the best evidence yet that humanity was deliberately designed,
Interesting idea. I have a similar suspicion, but don't really think it's playing out here. Any organism reacts in a similar way. We're machines, and the engineer is still constrained by the underlying logic of the universe. Hard mechanical constraints.

wait, so newtypes are a real possibility?

Does this mean looking at photos of space could lead to these same effects as it creates a space-time exposure to the cosmic rays?

There is gravity in space? Gravity just doesn't stop once you exit the atmosphere.

In before new types.

Holy shit you cunts are retarded. Space is a terrible environment for almost all known organisms. The radiation increase by itself is extremely detrimental.

...

>I feel like science is so close minded sometimes that anytime a conspiracy theorist suggests something the scientific community dismisses it out of hand and immediately shuts it down and continues to do so even after it's been they've been proven correct.
Because "science" has processes and standards that eliminate bullshit and hasty conclusions. Some retard on the internet making some outlandish claim with no valid evidence or structure, is not going even be noticed by anyone relevant. Let alone considered.

there is no gravity or heat in the universe, force can't exist in a vacuum

You're the reason why people like Sir Roger Penrose and Julian Jaynes and Rupert Sheldrake are or were forced to publish some of their work directly to the public, bypassing peer review. They knew that their work was too revolutionary to get a fair hearing from the scientific establishment which has become politicized and governed more by which attitudes are likely to get rewarded by corporate sponsorship than any real scientific rigour.

Explain further, because it's a pretty well know fact that gravity waves travel through space, and exists. Even if I'm out of the atmosphere, I'm stil being affected by gravity.

gravity is a force, a vector, acting on every particle everywhere. it starts at the center of big masses e.g. the sun or the earth and propagates outwards

it can't propagate to space, so gravity does not exist in space. this is also why other forces, like heat or air currents do not exist in space.

I think this is a false equivalency. The three people you mentioned there didn't just pull their theories from their ass, they theorized, tested the theory etc. They still went through the scientific process, they simply just didn't have it peer reviewed. That doesn't make the process any less scientific, just that it wasn't ever "confirmed". People theorizing about space germs and being shut down is different, because those people theorizing about space germs had no way to test their theory. That's why they were dismissed, they had no evidence.

This post is godly

Ok, that's fair. But then how do celestial bodies gravitationally pull on each other? I get what you're saying, I'm terms of force can't exist in space (no action without reaction) but isn't the fact that both of these bodies are pulling on each other with the same amount of gravitational force a testament that it exists?

>science is all about what feels right :^) WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB
The absolute state of sci

There's a scene at the very end of Battlestar Galactica where there's only 40,000 left to the entire human race, and they say they need to interbreed with the native primitives to keep their species alive. Then they dump their technology and spaceships into the nearest star.

Going to mock these guys too?

"When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. " -- Buckminster Fuller

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." -- Albert Einstein

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." -- Niels Bohr

None of them are saying
>lol whatever feels right is true just trust your feelings bro

And that's not what I wrote either. I was referring to the role of mysticism -- that is, revealed knowledge -- in creating hypotheses. In the Aristotlian model there are three ways of obtaining knowledge: empiricism, rationalism, and revelation. The application of pure empiricism is science, the application of pure rationalism is philosophy, and the application of pure revelation is mysticism.

Mysticism refers to any non-conscious process of the human mind. "Hunches" and intuition and aesthetic appreciation and a sense of the mysterious are all forms of mysticism. And all of them are important in breaking new ground by creating hypotheses.

Why do people who think of themselves as science fanatics never understand the semiotics of it?

Signum est quod se ipsum sensui et praeter se aliquid animo ostendit; De dial.

>epigenetics and consequently transcription frequency is changed when entering a wildly new environment.

Color me surprised. Do you think that things don't change when you deep sea dive or climb a mountain? I really want to understand the physical mechanism behind gravity's effect on methylation.

Holy shit this thread is cancer. Is this what happens when mathematicians try into biology?

>biology isn't mathematical

Do you even Golden Ratio?

>Yes, that occured to me too. I know there's an argument that we actually evolved for a Martian environment, and that everything from the frequency of back problems to flat feet shows we're supposed to be living in an environment of lighter gravity.

Uh huh, and I guess all the fossils of hominids were painstakingly planted by aliens to trick us.

Seems legit..

Newtypes incoming

Is your post god judging this board for being full of faggots

>le golden ratio meme
not all logarithmic patterns conform to the golden ratio.

Why doesn't anybody put the fusion in chromosome 2 in schizophrenia and fusion induced gravitational waves together? Those people are fucking ridiculous.

>implying they don't have methheads at the Space Station

It's probably simple trasferrance of transport medium from gravity to phosphate light pulsewaves. Don't care if you aren't a Satanist my country represents The Church of Satan so I must as a Citizen Scientist. And of course I often choose to, Satanism is fuckin' cool.

>Because "science" has processes
This part is true.
>and standards
This is getting towards a grey area.
>that eliminate bullshit and hasty conclusions.
This, connected to the former, is false. Put in a direct way, you were taught by your environment, implicitly and explicitly, that science is perfect. And by association, scientists are perfect. It sounds asinine when you put it that way, because it is. And it's how you think whether you realize it or not.

It's all about group dynamics, vertical control structures, and personal desire. People are generally irrational and dishonest on multiple levels. This can be deliberately induced, used, and twisted, by social and economic factors. Something can be branded "conspiratorial" and "wrong" to a point where no one has the will or courage to engage with it. Most ignore it, some lightly engage it to prove they're not one of the "other" and that they're with the perceived consensus of the group, some engage it because they're genuinely retarded. Their voices are the loudest and their arguments are readily deconstructed and proven categorically false, unfortunately generally to no avail. Cultural engineering is that powerful. Divide and conquer and induced tribalism are the oldest methods of governance.

Put concisely, the "processes" you believe in are the following:
-Funding
-Status with your peers and conformance to standards of belief and behavior
-Keeping your job. Debt peonage ensures that after investing so much into education, losing your job, being blacklisted / alienated from your field, etc, means loss of everything and anything you have or want. Debt is another old trick to ensure cultural indoctrination and control of an individual's behavior. ie, don't rock the boat unless you're willing and able to rock it all the way.

Anyway. Sucks man, but that's the way it is. There is no grand lofty plane where everything is objective, honest, well defined, and above all, valuing the truth.

I didn't have enough characters, but to add on, Orwell (among others) had a lot to say about this. There is at least some relationship between language and fundamental logic, and certainly a relationship between language and higher thought. Nebulous terms like "conspiracy theorist" are an obvious example. It's a trigger phrase, drags in a number of implicit underlying dispositions and associations. Gets people to think and act how you want them to act. Etc.

Usually if you have to explain this to someone it means they'll never really understand in a global sense, but maybe I'm wrong.

Also, there's Planck's sentiment towards the whole deal. "Science advances one funeral at a time." Unfortunately progress is often conflated with motion towards truth and betterment. Progress is always perceived, and never a self referential absolute. And from what I've seen, moments of "progress" are usually net bullshit, and shit for just about everyone.

Ironic.
You're the one throwing a tantrum from my third party perspective. He explained the source of miscommunication calmly and you're being a fucking cunt about it.

No it's just your body adapting to a new environment

>Then why doesn't skydiving or taking rides on rollercoasters cause "fireworks" in your epigenetic triggers?
Maybe because they don't last A FUCKING YEAR, which was how long Scott Kelly was in space for? Yeah, I'm gonna say it's that.

Or maybe humans are the result of billions of years of evolution, which is essentially an arms race which has resulted in more and more complex organisms which are better and better at conquering the environment of Earth? Yeah I'm gonna say it's that.

What a fucking sad state of this shit hole. I had to travel to Veeky Forums and read a shitty thread to kek within the first 3 seconds and /b/ has not had a good YLYL in almost 4 years.

What they said does not inherently relate to creationism. They didn't say "God", you did.

Atheism is a religion.

>hurr

No, you.

your mom

Oh.

see? atheism is no religion.

Your phenotype has been judged as

I N A D E Q U A T E

>randomly switching genes on and off is good

fuck Veeky Forums