Damn. What did highly influential and critically lauded writer Ishmael Reed mean by this?

Damn. What did highly influential and critically lauded writer Ishmael Reed mean by this?

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youtube.com/watch?v=Ag6y6jz7bQQ
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What do you think?

somewhere in all those typos is the claim that white culture presented to us in the media is not what one will experience in the actual streets on a personable, granular level, and that institutions are adamantly pushing the fabrication of "Western Civilization" and it's "values", implying towards systemic whitewashing and historical revisionism.

Do niggers even think about anything except muh evil whitey pay da reparashuns?

Imagine being as dull and monothematic (autistic) as this poster.

he's right tho you cuck

Why are blacks so obsessed with whites?

So true hehe, glad we're turning into a cultureless hellhole

OP quote didn't say anything about reparations so yes.

Black culture > white "culture"

I believe means American cultural institutions are resisting the birth of a true American culture (I wish he would have been a bit more specific about which cultural institutions - perhaps in his day it was all of them, idk).

They do this by clinging to what Western Civilization was. These institutions are focused on maintaining that framework and advancing only within its bounds. In other words, Reed sees them as highly conservative.

This amounts to a "Whitetown" because people of color were not a part of Western cultural history. They were not permitted to be - in a full sense.

In opposition to this attitude, America is multicultural, and, therefore, a truly American culture is whatever comes out after the blending of our collective cultures has produced a new and stable culture as the byproduct of amalgamation.

Ishmael is basically saying Academic and Artistic institutions are afraid of a corruption of What Is, and so resist the culture sharing which must take place for a stable American culture to exist. Due to their resistance, we learn of one another's cultures not within cultural institutions, as we should (at least in part), but "on the streets," in the real world, from one another.

Essentially, this is a conservative v. liberal argument. In the purest sense. One side wishes to hold on, to preserve, to conserve, and one to move forward, to embrace, and to liberate control.

I don't know when he wrote this, but I think it is a bit outdated today.

preach it brother

>This amounts to a "Whitetown" because people of color were not a part of Western cultural history. They were not permitted to be - in a full sense.
Wow, a culture resisting outsiders, how unique.

American blacks don't have black culture. They have slave culture. You'd need to go somewhere else to find black culture, like Africa, Central America or Brazil.

It means that white culture looks like this high standard Shakespearian meme while actual white culture is going to starbucks and shit, ya dip.

That's just it. They weren't outsiders. They were made to be outsiders. At least when we're speaking of America.

Also, don't mistake me. I'm speaking matter-of-factly - not as a criticism. You shouldn't take it as one. I see no point in criticizing the dead.

Who cares, let's just try to have a culture

Nonsense.

Much of American culture is born of African American culture. African American culture has been shaping American culture since the 18th century, and since slavery was eradicated, its impact has been large.

Without African Americans, you have no American culture. It would be something completely different than it is - dramatically so.

You need to erase that bias - it's blinding you.

Everyone has a culture.

Niggers have been degenerating culture for centuries, with such outstanding contributions as rap music, peanut butter, and ebonics.

Thanks black people!

Maybe American culture wouldn't be so bad if the blacks never went there.

how convenient

Popculture*
Real culture would still be intact

Yours is an uneducated response.

As is yours.

Ya didn't even fucking read my sentence properly you blind fuck.
Black culture in the US barely has origins in african culture, it's literally just slave culture you deluded cunt.

I guess. Since we can't escape culture, we have no way of knowing whether or not it's convenient.

Another uneducated response.

No, you're the educated one here. Henry James and Orson Welles wouldn't exist without black culture.

Why do you think every post that denigrates black "culture" is uneducated?

Your thinking is poor.

Slave culture? So all slaves share a culture do they? No, they don't.

No black culture? If they are black and have a culture - it is a black culture.

I understand what you're getting at, but it really is too shallow. If you attempt to analyze African American culture exclusively through the lens of "they were slaves" you won't understand it.

What makes black USA culture so tragic is that it was literally slaves imitating their masters. Even now, the slaves descendents still can't throw off that slave mentality.

Even more so than money, reparations would have to involve total destruction and rebuilding of black American culture to repair damage done to them by slave owners. This will never happen, of course, so the USA is probably fucked.

>Maybe American culture wouldn't be so bad if the blacks never went there.

it's not like they invaded, you ignorant fuck. Whitey imported them. It's not their fault they're here, it's ours.

Thank you. I am the educated one here.

It isn't that they denigrate black culture.

It is the simple perspective those views stem from.

I guess we should just adopt a low class culture then.

So educate me. What great high cultural achievements would we lack without you?

it would be boring as fuck. Like Canada.

Hmm… something like The Dukes of Hazzard re-runs and Coors Lite?

Yes, every white person was colluding to bring them in.
You don't know their perspective.

I guess lower crime rates could be described as boring, but I would prefer it.

That's exactly my point. You don't shill for lowclass white culture, so why shill for black culture?

Or 50 Cent and purple drank.
But blacks did appropriate a lot of their culture from poor southern whites.

True. Some also migrated legally the same as every one else. There were even black landowners and interracial marriages prior to the instituting of slavery.

However, that is past. What we really should all speak on isn't who is or is not to blame for the state of modern society. Why does there need to be blame anyway?

We should discuss the ways the cultural blending and cultural preservation Reed alluded to should take place.

In truth, it is already taking place, and will continue to, but it would be interesting to discuss what is worth conserving and what changes are worth embracing.

Oh, but I do. Perhaps you can't glean it from their choice of words, but I can, and experience has proven me right in these matters.

Not that any of this will benefit you at all.

No, you're just making unfounded assumptions.

Then bless our naive little souls with something concrete to back up your statements.

Because you're a dumb racist, look at who voted for Trump.

I... I honestly don't know. I'm aghast.

I'm not even white tho

>Blacks
Spearchucking in Africa and banging the bongo's like a bunch of untalented autists while seemingly being stuck in time since they have not progressed in the past 2000 years.

>Whites and Asians
Composing some of the most amazing music (Schubert, Beethoven, Bach), making beautiful paintings, buildings and having years and years of building civalization with rises and falls of gigantic empires.

the point is that "low class culture" is generated by ignorant normies of any color. "ignorant normies" are the majority, of course. but denigrating examples of one type because they are other than you is primitive thinking.

>asians
>any of that

All the best American musicians, athletes, and intellectuals are of African origin, so I'd say it's more than that.

>musicians
He meant actual music
>intellectuals
Lel

Hip-hop is more intellectually stimulating than bland white music.
Name one good white American public intellectual.

I didnt mean modern pop culture you spastic. I meant actual western culture. Which has existed before black people tried to destroy it and will continue to exist once black people are finally thrown back in the African shithole they belong.

Also, enlighten me. Which great black musicians have lived in Europe? Which great black intellectuals have lived in Europe?

I wouldn't even care about useless crap like this but you cannot say that black "culture" is any better or even better defined that white culture without expecting a shitstorm of people ready to correct your narrow minded view.

I guess you win. Sorry :(

>Hip-hop is more intellectually stimulating than bland white music.
What the fuck? Okay, I get that you're trolling now. Very funny. "I was only pretending to be autistic and moronic, haha I am so funny". Great post.

>look at who voted for Trump.

Hardworking middle class people?

Listen to some good, non-mainstream hip-hop artists for once, you ignorant cunt.

>le experimental hip hop is better than Bach

It's just basketball that's mostly black, because it's one of the least expensive sports and there's no barrier to entry for poor as shit black people. Oh, and certain track and field events, but to be fair it's mostly immigrants from East Africa that excel at those, not Jamal and Daquandrias.

Says the person who thinks hip-hop is more intellectually stimulating than actually good music. I don't even hate hip-hop but your stance is moronic. Please end thyself.

I laughed out loud.

"lemme at dem white bitches doe you raciss crackas, fuck paying fo dat"
Admitedly in very elegant acedemic prose.

I wish /pol/ would leave...

they have no culture

/thread

I'm sorry but that's literally what he meant by that. He wants to be up so high trying to get a peice of that apple pie; to reiterate in a more middle-brow manner.

What has been said outside of maybe 2 sentences concerning Trump which sounds like /pol/ to you? There was just some troll who said that hip-hop sounds better than Bach and Schubert and some people went after him and gave him the replies he wanted. If anything this is more like a /mu/ thread.

It isn't as simple as making a list. This is a serious problem with Americans today. You want to understand complex things, but you want the answers to be presented to you in neat little fast-food helpings.

The truth which needs to be grasped is that our coexistence has affected us all. It has affected our forefathers'-forefathers'-forefathers. American culture is a product of a predominantly Caucasoid and Negro nation. Without one another we would not be ourselves. I'm not saying it has all been for good or for bad on either side, but that it is an indissoluble admixture, and the fear/hatred-of-the-other only hinders our advancement.

That said, the arts have been heavily influenced by African American culture since the early 20th century, at least. Although the influence is most obvious in music and dance (Jazz, Blues, by extension, Rock, then Rap, and into modern music where the influence is still obvious), it is pervasive. African American cultural influence is found in every art - and this is becoming increasingly true. It is clearly visible in American music, dance, fashion, cinema, comedy, television, poetry, literature, and everything else.

Likewise, it is becoming increasingly true that the influence is spreading beyond the arts. The primary reason it was contained to the arts for most of the twentieth century is segregation.

Again, this is not a critique on Whites, but only a statement of fact.

This containment is due to a number of factors: (a) little culture sharing, (b) artistic innovation can be done intuitively, thus not necessitating highly or even well educated participants, (c) poor educations, (d) little to no opportunity for significant entrepreneurship or growth.

For example, Blackwell was a Ph.D Mathematician who acquired his Ph.D. at the early age of 22. However, in spite of his prodigious talent, he was denied positions in Mathematical departments and even barred from joining the AMA. Then you have instances like the town razings and mass murders which occured in Tulsa, Oklahoma. In other words, fear-of-the-other prevented greater contributions of blacks to American culture.

Which almost brings us full circle, as it is the residual effects of this mentality which Ishmael Reed seems to be addressing.

Anyway, I've digressed.

Although it would be easy to show you, were we speaking in person, writing a comprehensive explanation would take more time, and research to provide you the supporting data you would surely prefer, than I am willing to give at present.

In short, I'm not willing to do your research for you. I already know these things.

However, you can take my word for it that if you keep in mind that African American influence is everywhere within the arts (for good and ill, like anything), you will see it for yourself. I don't know how much or how little you know of the arts, but since we're on Veeky Forums I'll assume you're familiar enough to do this with little effort.

I bear no burden of proof. Believe me, or don't - it is one to me.

>you will never be this autistic

Hi, Louis.

Look at this tryhard psued and laugh

Nope, American culture is the product of educated Englishmen.

>all this text
>still no answer to the questiom asked outside of m-muh hip-hop and other trivial pop-culture which will be forgotten within 100 years

Louis? Louis Armstrong?

If so, I'll take that complement.

Someone doesn't know how to read.

Only a true plebeian considers effort worth insult.

You want to be a fat, ugly nigger?

>the lights dim on a packed auditorium and the audience comes to a hush
>the heavy beats of drums are heard from the stage
youtube.com/watch?v=Ag6y6jz7bQQ
>a red spotlight flashes a light onto the black nubian bodies of dozens of men naked except for masks, all dancing in two lines line
>the crowd bursts into a tribal cheer
>the lines split, and a fat black buckwoddles forward with ((((Louis CK)))), bound in chains, on a rope, and throws him forward
>the crowd begins screaming at the top of their lungs in joy
>Louis gets up, pulls down his gag, and picks up the microphone
>BOOOOOOOOOOOO

"I know I know I'll put it back on in a second, WHO HERE LIKES BIG BLACK COCK?"

>the crowd begins roaring and moaning in joy
>Louis claps his hands and two black bulls bring in his naked daughter, limbs tied to a spit

"How many you think'll fit guys? One, maybe two?"

>the crowd begins screaming numbers at random

"Let's see, how many beautiful black bucks do we have here? Not just on stage guys come on!"

>various men of color and women with strap-ons pile into the aisles and climb up the stage
>the drumming reaches a climax as Louis's daughter is untied from the spit and black bodies begin to descend on her

"Well guys! Looks like my job here is done!"

>Louis puts his gag back on, and the nubian god that pulled him in puts his gag back on and drags him to the onstage orgey, throwing him into the torrent of black bodies

>African American cultural influence is found in every art - and this is becoming increasingly true. It is clearly visible in American music, dance, fashion, cinema, comedy, television, poetry, literature, and everything else.
All these things were done before black people got into it and were done better before black people got into it.
>Likewise, it is becoming increasingly true that the influence is spreading beyond the arts. The primary reason it was contained to the arts for most of the twentieth century is segregation.
He says without posting any examples.

this

I did and you didn't answer the question, dumbass. You keep talking about how hip-hop and some shitty 90's black comedy's are important to American culture. They are all trivial pop-culture. It's like comparing Andy Warhol to Michelangelo. The Rolling Stones to Bach. John Green to Dante. The former will be forgotten within 100 years while the latter will be discussed for centuries to come.

Also, and I will tell you this for your benefit, you need to look at the pinnacle of human achievement as a sort of cosmic river - or a long conversation man is having with himself.

All the greats of every branch of thought, be it art or science, are entering this conversation and contributing to it. This is the point of mastery - be it Academic or otherwise.

Hip Hop won't be forgotten - it was a part of the conversation. It was a child of the movements before it, and those who have since joined the conversation are in communication with it on a global scale.

When students of art history study the artistic movements of the early 21st century in order to understand the movements of the late 21st century, and so on ad infinitum, they will need to understand Hip Hop's influence. Not only in America either.

The same is true of Jazz and Blues to understanding the artistic movements of the 20th century.

Everything is interconnected. Unless a movement is particularly small it will not be forgotten for some time.

I would love to be a talented genius of any shape or race.

How is it you don't see that defining a man by such things as whether he is fat or black is the definition of shallow, and therefore, stupid?

You've lost sight, entirely, of the discussion - and your insults don't build your argument (which is already invalid).

It will be discussed on the same artistic level as pro wrestling.

If you can't see the increasing influence yourself - you're either blind, dumb, or not an American, and, therefore, a stranger to the domain in question.

Race is a big determining factor in your life. Blowing into a horn doesn't make you a better person.

If you actually believe that, you need help from a good teacher(s).

not an argument. just throwing some insults without even trying to counter-argument what I said is not how discussing works.

Oh my you're a special brand of stupid. Hip-hop will be remembered in the same branch as disco music and hair-metal has. Garbage which your dad likes. Saying it hold any kind of importance is childish.

I don't even know how to respond to thinking that simple.

Read more.

I agree. In the year 2300 people will talk about Eat Dat Watermellon (attr. Nick Cannon) as the apotheosis of post-emanicipation black thought as exemplified by songs like Flip Mode, Candy Shop, and Laffy Taffy.

please tell my why it wouldn't. make me laugh.

Read about the science of race. It's much more than colour.
Why? Wrestling is as big as hip-hop culturally. It's as artistically involved, too.

No, it wasn't an argument. I'm glad you noticed.

Neither of us are gaining anything from speaking with each other, so I'll bid you farewell.

I hope you grow as a person.

All human traits are substantially heritable.

Just wrong.

Thanks at least for agreeing with me that you are too stupid to form an argument ;^)

Of course it is more than color.

I don't want to talk to you kid. I'm sorry, but you're just too far below my level of thinking.

What I really hoped for when I entered this thread was an actual discussion of the implications of OP's quote and the current trends born of the amalgamation of culture in modern America.

Instead, you have all focused on the past and entrenched yourself in racially biased views - a surefire way to have no realizations of any kind and to leave this thread with none of us gaining anything.

So good day.

>I'm sorry, but you're just too far below my level of thinking.
Talking like this makes you sound really stupid. And your stupidity is proved by the fact that you were unable to see that the OP posted some weak /pol/ bait.

Bye, Destiny. Run away everytime you get BTFO.