None of his works survived and the anecdotes attributed to him are likely falsehoods. I'm not claiming he wasn't great but there is no way others can possibly know if he was, yet they speak as if it's concrete fact. Some people don't even know that his works haven't survived and I've actually seen people making posts on here such as: "Read Diogenes bro, he told Alexander to move and shit bro, based bro blah blah" People like him exist now, but they're hospitalised with mental illness and called degenerates, bums, punks, tramps, druggies, losers, etc.
Is he the ultimate pseudo-intellectual hero?
Lincoln Wood
Peiple "like" Diogenes the same way that people "like" Stirner or Nietzsche.
Lincoln Nguyen
I like the anecdotes around him. I also like degenerates, bums, punks. tramps, druggies, losers, slackers, shut ins etc. they're my people.
Ryder Cook
He's like Socrates, we only know what people wrote about him, though much more was written about Socrates. Doesn't make him any less based.
Camden Campbell
You can sort of piece together his general philosophy by reading the sayings and anecdotes attributed to him. He's essentially Marcus Aurelius on steroids. The most useful thing I picked up in reading about him is the idea that we should always be training ourselves for the worst possible situation, which is really what the Diogenes lifestyle is all about - training your mind and body for the possibility of having to live in extreme poverty, skipping a meal today through your own choice so that if next week you have to skip a meal by necessity it's not so hard a burden to bear.
Austin Morales
>pseudo-intellectual
That was sort of the point. He was the anithesis to the stuffy philosophy of academia. He provided a necessary counterpoint to them to get that dialectic rolling. Think of him as instrumental
Camden Sanchez
Because no one actually likes Diogenes. What they like is a blank slate with a few aphorisms attributed to him that they can dump their own personal philosophy on to.
Angel Allen
But Nietzsche is a real philosopher. He's also a destiny, and he's so wise, and his books are so good.
Charles Flores
Contraians that shits on pretentiousness is important for nipping decadence in the bud.
Samuel Martinez
>degenerates, bums, punks. tramps, druggies, losers, slackers, shut ins literally all applicable to me goddamn
Robert Torres
>this makes Kant cry
Adam Perez
Crusties on my Veeky Forums?
Matthew Gonzalez
He's a '>reads philosophy once' figure like every other major Hellenistic figure or movement.
HAHA IM SO TOUGH AND LOGICAL BRO I LOVE STOICISM HEARD ABOUT THEM LAST TERM WHEN I TOOK THAT PHILOSOPHY 101 ELECTIVE PRETTY GAY OVERALL BUT STOICS WERE COOL
Disgusting
Justin Brown
we'd make fast friends.
Luis Adams
This. We need more weird fuckers.
Levi Hughes
>None of his works survived >his works
r u fucking serious?
Juan Scott
what faggot?
Josiah Robinson
there are no works by him cause he never actually wrote anything down
Carson Powell
false
Levi Butler
>mad because am too cucked to ever do what diogenes did >mad because can't relate with man who is satisfied living alone among the dogs >mad because more libertine spirits identify with the mercurial zen-like spirit of ancient hobo lmao son try to be less mad
Brandon Jackson
>No writings of Diogenes have survived even though he is reported to have authored several books. All we have is a number of anecdotes concerning his life and sayings attributed to him in a number of scattered classical sources, none of them definitive.
Daniel Price
noice
Gabriel Young
>spotted the edgy teenagers Yes, tell me how rebellious you are while browsing the world wide web on your Apple iPhone while sporting Converse shoes and other brand named clothing stitched together by starving slaves from third world countries
Yes... you're just like Diogenes, just like him!
Adam Bennett
Not a crusty, nor an advocate for the crusty lifestyle - but the "you can't participate in Capitalism if you don't support it" argument doesn't hold up
John Peterson
>Doesn't hold up It doesn't hold up because you're a consumer just like everyone else, but you wish you weren't. You don't want it to hold up. You're no rebel. You're no punk.
Josiah Walker
>You're no rebel. You're no punk. And I never claimed to be. But the choice is that you participate in Capitalism or starve to death.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure this is bait so I'll duck out quietly
Jack Thomas
>But the choice is that you participate in Capitalism or starve to death. No it isn't, you fucking autist.
>I'm pretty sure this is bait The only one baiting is you. You're a retard with no arguments
Isaac Jenkins
this is why I like degenerates, bums, punks. tramps, druggies, losers, slackers, shut ins etc.
they're based and got mad chill
Colton Edwards
Not liking Diogenes is the most Reddit thing I can think of.
Hunter Williams
>No it isn't, you fucking autist yes, it is you fucking classcuck
Jacob Rivera
What does capitalism mean to you, or in other words, what am I being forced to do where the alternative is death by starvation?
Bentley Gutierrez
It doesn't matter what Capitalism means to me. It is an economic system which we live in.
Purchasing anything or selling your labour is participating in Capitalism
Henry Scott
Based.
Adam Rogers
You don't have to buy anything and you don't have to work for anyone. There's incentive for people to do those things because they generally improve a persons quality of life but nobody is forcing you to buy things or work for them. A person can make whatever they need and create their own food all by themselves so there is an alternative aside from death by starvation.
Even if, for the sake of argument I accept this idea that only alternative to participating in capitalism is starvation that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing from a moral standpoint. If an animal doesn't hunt for his food then it probably isn't going to eat and it will starve to death, this is a natural life process that serves to weed out the weak and it's the same for humans. We only need to hunt in a different way, like working for somebody or buying and selling products.
Caleb Sanchez
>make whatever they need With whose materials? >create their own food With whose plot of land?
>Even if, for the sake of argument...
I'm not here to disprove the efficacy of Capitalism as a method of natural selection - I only said that one must participate or die. This, I should add, is fairly self-evident.
Liam Jackson
In The Myth of Sisyphus, Camus discusses living ones own philosophy. In Sisyphus obviously he is asking whether or not to kill one's self on principle of philosophy. The book decides to live in the end, but he cites life deniers who lived (with full stomachs at that).
Diogenes, while having a different philosophy, absolutely lived what he believed. He provided his own light, despite throwing himself into darkness.
Regardless of what our beliefs are, we should throw ourselves into them as readily as he did.
Ayden Young
You can go to Alaska right no and take possession of certain unsettled land. If you live their for 5 years the government sign it over to you and it becomes yours at no cost to you. There's a lot of federal property throughout the US where it's completely legal to live on, hunt, and forage. You could also take advantage of the ocean.
Carson King
How am I going to get there from merry old England? Shall I sail the channel on a leaf, since commercial travel is, of course, forbidden?
When I arrive - assuming I can get there without a Visa - how will I account for the fact that owning private property, granted to me by the American government after 5 years of residence, is participating in Capitalism of which private ownership of land is a feature?
Carter Brown
wew lad, 2017 is exactly like ancient Greece am i right?
Dominic Johnson
You defined capitalism as buying things and being forced to sell your labor, I fail to see how being given property falls under this purview. Build yourself a boat.
Jaxson Edwards
Then find a forest in your desiccated empire of a country to live in. Instead of looking for reasons why others are wrong, look for ways to succeed despite the pitfalls.
Connor Reyes
Furthermore, personal property and private property are two different things. Living on your own and sustaining yourself is the closest an individual can get to escaping capitalism in this age.
Nathan Jenkins
Nobody is forcing you to take possession of any property.
Chase Richardson
>You defined capitalism as buying things and being forced to sell your labor
Incorrect. I defined it as the economic system which we live in. I mentioned purchasing and selling labour as two aspects to address your earlier point directed at the "punks". The existence of private property is an essential feature of Capitalism - though one does not necessarily have to own private property oneself to participate in Capitalism.
Forests are by-and-large privately or nationally owned. If I could avoid being arrested for vagrancy, public urination/defecation, public nudity etc., I would still have to contend with the practical absence of any forageable foods.
>Instead of looking for reasons why others are wrong, look for ways to succeed despite the pitfalls.
Again, I am not here to criticise Capitalism; only your misguided statement that one can choose not to participate.
I don't believe I said anything about personal property. Ownership of land is private property, which is capitalist.
Mason Martinez
>Purchasing anything or selling your labour is participating in Capitalism
Tyler Miller
Do you have an argument?
Landon Evans
Of course, but this level of retardation warrants nothing but an image macro.
Dylan Sanders
If you purchase anything, you are exchanging money for goods. If you sell your labour, you are exchanging your services for money.
This is plainly Capitalism. You have no argument.
Asher Smith
found the kerouac fan jk i secretly like him too
Joseph Torres
Wew, lad.
Brandon Perez
capitalism, in the sense that anyone who uses the word means, is a whole social system of productive and exchange relations, not an isolated exchange
Alexander Butler
Yes, I know. The point is that these are isolated acts of participating in the economic system, which is the only point I intended to make
Luke Thompson
what's the point in always being prepared for extreme poverty by living in extreme poverty all the time? doesnt make sense to force yourself into poverty, in the off chance that you might end up in poverty. i dont think that's what diogenes was trying to say, more that an ascetic life is inherently better than an excessive one really? reddit love easily quotable philosophical cathphrases
Brandon Moore
>what's the point in always being prepared for extreme poverty by living in extreme poverty all the time? doesnt make sense to force yourself into poverty, in the off chance that you might end up in poverty. i dont think that's what diogenes was trying to say, more that an ascetic life is inherently better than an excessive one
In some sense it's a way of lowering your expectations and finding happiness.
Jose Mitchell
So live as a bum then. Grow your own food. Live off the land. You're just an edgelord who thinks it's cool to be a rebel anti-capitalist despite typing your posts from a computer some 12 year old chink lost their limbs making. Fuck off.
People have exchanged goods and services since forever. The best hunter gets more/the best meat. You're just mad that you're the loser in the game. Someone has to lose friendo, and that's you. Stay bitter
Hudson Phillips
I've already made plain here that I'm not here to criticise capitalism, just the idea that one can somehow choose not to participate.
Your understanding is about as good as that 12 year old chink's. Go back to /pol/
Michael Myers
What's the point?
Xavier Russell
What is important is if the information about him is helpful, not of its true.
Reading works about Diogenes is very entertaining and inspires me to live a less decadent, more simple and self-sufficient life. It has been a positive influence and I can now say that my life has improved because of him, regardless of the factuality of the anecdotes.
He's a useful archetype, bucko.
Jayden Johnson
You can choose not to participate. I just gave you an example of how to do so.
You can live like Diogenes now, people do, they're just called bums and tramps. Also, they're probably not as well read, etc.
You have no argument faggot
Xavier Lewis
'he' is the wrong fucking pronoun you fucking cracker. Diogenes was dogkin, and a bitch at that.
Ian Williams
Ironic Tumblr posting is still Tumblr posting.
Ryan Bell
6/10 b8
Jaxon Cooper
...
Brandon Russell
What were the valid criticisms? >relying on meme images because you have no argument or the brain power to come up with your own
Julian Edwards
augustine btfo'd him back when manuscripts were still extant
99% of lost works from antiquity didnt survive for a reason. Bitch and moan about Diogenes and Sappho all you want but the church managed to save virtually everything worthwhile, even the stuff that was 'heretical' (all of it).
Caleb Cruz
abandon desire sort yourself out
Jaxson Kelly
ass
Hudson Smith
>but the church managed to save virtually everything worthwhile This is laughably fucking stupid. Numerous works were series and only one of say 10 survived.
>Homer’s Margites Aristotle held it in high acclaim and claimed it was to comedy what the Iliad and Odyssey was to tragedy
Chase Rivera
do you unironically believe that we don't have the most important stuff?
Samuel Wright
we don't, you retard. we don't even know all that was lost.
what we know is numerous probable masterpieces were lost
Gavin Davis
forgive me if i have a hard time imagining there were more important authors than, say, Homer (The Poet), Hesiod, and Plato.
Name literally one fragmentary or referenced work that is 'more important'. only so much could be saved, and i believe that we tended to save what was best in as great a quantity as possible
Liam Moore
>Why do people rant about how great Diogenes was? Because he was a true Ubermensch and his witty quotes and anecdotes are funny. But to consider the man influential as an idol is to be disingenuous. He was hilarious as a troll, living by example in the purest way possible against the pseudo intellectual of his era, but people seem to mostly enjoy his hilarity, rather than what he stood for.
Most people who say that he's their favorite philosopher are just a tryhard idiot trying to look cool. There's not much else to say about the man or why people hate him.
Caleb Richardson
>what's the point in always being prepared for extreme poverty by living in extreme poverty all the time? So to not be reliant on anything. The Oak and the Reed fable is very reminiscent of this. If you are living is near poverty, even though you are rich, you lose much less and can recover much quickly than a man who has a palace and loses everything.
Personally, I like to think you should train yourself so that if an emergency ever occurs, it would require the smallest possible sacrifice on your end for you to return to your egotistic life. If you are weak and someone is drowning, you can safely ignore their plight, but that is simply because you are weak physically. Train yourself so that any danger or altruistic moment is of no threat to your own life and live as you will without being bounded or reliant on others.
The story about a boy drinking from the lake with his own hands, as Diogenes throws his cup in rage that he has been outsmarted by a child is representative of this. Live for yourself by bound to as little as possible.