Ignoring the economical and political problems of immortality...

Ignoring the economical and political problems of immortality, is extending human lifespan by a significant amount hypothetically possible or just another money scam?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P16
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_dohrnii
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakage-fusion-bridge_cycle
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

HARVEST THE SUN. EAT YOUR NEIGHBORS. SACRIFICE YOUR OFFSPRING. FORGIVE, FORGET. RINSE, REPEAT

It's possible but we'll never get it.

Sincerely do you really bother that much of economics to die.

Hugh Jackman lookin pretty rough these days.

that's Michael Palin as the IT'S man

Easily possible. But will never happen because of greed and incompetence.

It’s real but he is going about it the wrong way

A combination of this. But as others have said it is biologically possible:
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality

It's not just possible. It isn't even difficult. We literally could be 10 years from actual products available to reverse aging on the market if they actually would stop wasting their time on shit even they know doesn't do shit like fiddling with mitochondria.

What's wrong with mitochondria? Isn't redox stress implicated in lots of disorders? Or are you claiming mitochondrial problems aren't causal, and just symptoms of other underlying problems

in which case, who are you?

A person's mitochondria will outlive them. How can you reverse aging by adding years to something that already wears out slower than your body? It's illogical and stupid. And beyond that, we KNOW what causes aging: cell loss. Your cells eventually die and are not replaced and you lose living mass until you die, even if you never experience a "disease of aging" like cancer.

Think about all the diseases that we haven't cured today and consider the complexity of the human anatomy. Finally, view this question in the context of human history rather than what some transhumanist wants to be true.

This is a beginner's mistake. Aging isn't as complicated as the whole of human biology. If you can extend the hayflick limit of your cells, you've basically cured aging. Everything else is details.

But mitochondrial dysfunction can cause cell loss. If you prematurely activate apoptotic pathways via caspases (released from the mitochondria) then your cells an hero. So, "fiddling with mitochondria" as far as prevention of their dysfunction seems useful for prevention of cell death and therefore aging.

Do you think there are better areas to explore regarding cell death? Do you just want to replenish cells with renewed stem cell therapies or something? I'm not sure what your perspective is for attacking the problem.

Not a biofag, but isn't a lot of aging due to telomeres? If we could stop those from shortening, I think that would help a bunch.
Someone who actually knows what they're talking about, please tell me why I'm completely oversimplifying the problem and totally wrong.

No you basically have it backwards. Consider this: mitochondrial lines are immortal - mothers (and rarely fathers) give their mitochondria to their offspring. How would this be possible if mitochondria caused aging? It wouldn't.

>Do you think there are better areas to explore regarding cell death?
Yeah. And I realize this will come as a shock to literally everyone in the field but: the fucking cells. What a concept, right?

And my method of attacking the problem is to extend hayflick limit. Rejuvenating the cells of the body causes those cells to maintain a body as though it were useful, more or less. Again, everything else is details. Even if you still built up junk in your tissues and your mitochondria fried completely out, having a continual stream of new actual cells makes most of those problems moot.

You'll notice literally nobody is pursuing this angle, even though we KNOW that cell death is the source of aging. Start asking these organizations WHY they won't.

*youthful, not useful - well I guess useful too lol

So, the End of Replication problem goes like this:

The process for generating a new set of DNA when cells divide (mitosis) is slightly flawed and you lose a little bit of your telomeres each time you do it.

Telomeres are like the caps at the end of your shoelaces, but for DNA. They wear down and eventually they're gone and the DNA is all fucked up.

This is called Crisis. Cell machinery that looks for damaged DNA sees shit missing telomeres no differently than a strand break, like as though you got hit with radiation and it's fucking you up. It tries to "repair" the damage by mashing ends of chromosomes together.

This is okay until you try to go through cell division again. The cytoskeleton structure that needs to carefully split things evenly between two cells can't deal with this retardedly "repaired" chromosomes and you actually break your chromosomes apart.

Then the repairs kick in, and shit mixes and matches.

And keep doing that.

You're basically losing genetic information, and what you even have might not last for very long either.

Suddenly, out of all this fucking bullshit, Cancer develops, because you have Growth Signaling genes attached to "Always On" sequences and your retarded DNA can't go back to normal regulation. So not only do you die, but it sucks extra hard.

I didn't say mitochondria caused aging, I was just linking to the diseases of aging. Also I don't know what you're talking about regarding mitochondria being immortal. You need new organelles every time you get new cells, don't you? That's no more "immortal" than all of my DNA, mitochondrial or not. What am I missing?

You keep talking about cells. What about the cells? You can't just say "Let's repair the cells" because the cells are made of parts. Those parts include organelles. So, you must be saying you just want to introduce new cells into the body to replace the old ones. That seems a lot easier said than done, and you haven't elaborated. I'm asking you to elaborate.

Alright, thanks. Is there any way to prevent this with modern technology?

Anyway, as to why you're oversimplifying it, I can tell you about accumulation of other proteins before you get to Crisis mode.

Cell division itself is a stress on the cell, and it'll make proteins to go like "Whoa dude chill out, check yourself before you wreck yourself". It makes proteins that stop the Cell Cycle (which is basically just stages of growth and division).

There comes a point where some cells will actually just accumulate enough of that protein that they won't divide anymore. They basically get clogged in the "off" position.

I believe p16 is one of them. I forget exactly, I think there are some others.

Maybe start here if you wanna know more: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P16

>I didn't say mitochondria caused aging, I was just linking to the diseases of aging.
You don't seem to grasp that that makes no sense. What causes aging causes the diseases of aging. Something can't cause "diseases of aging" without causing aging itself. Even things like amyloid plaque causing Alzheimer's are not a cause - they, themselves are SYMPTOMS of dysfunction brought on by dying cells.

Supposedly TERT therapy like Liz Parrish claims to have gotten. Good luck, since literally zero people are actually focusing on bringing it to market. Frankly, I think the entire thing was a fraudulent publicity stunt.

You don't have to repair cells. You just replace them with new immortalized pluripotent autologous stem cells. The rest is clearing out older cells. That's it. Do that and you've mostly cured aging.

Well, we usually just kill bad cells with chemo, targeted at metabolic pathways driven haywire by the cancer.

I should point out, actually, that Crisis won't be going on throughout the body. Your body doesn't need to constantly replenish all of its cells everywhere. Some divide a lot more than others (eg those in the GI tract).

Now, as to actually attack the problem, plenty of organisms express a protein we call Telomerase, which literally just extends the Telomeres again. In fact, sperm cells have Telomerase.

Part of cancer is also reactivating Telomerase in somatic cells, though.

The trick would be to maybe have a sometimes-on sometimes-off telomerase that we could control such that we could repair the telomeres and not give ourselves cancer.

Keep in mind, we constantly get cancer, but the immune system just deals with it, or the cells stop dividing because they lack telomerase. It's kind of a can of worms so just dumping telomerase into all your cells probably won't do it.

New stem cells mostly circumvent this. Youthful cells will police cancer cells better.

Well, I did ask if you felt I was confusing cause for symptom.

I guess I have some things to think about.

Holy shit, user, you're right. I guess I need to drop my physics degree and pick up genetic engineering instead, to go along with my mathematics degree.

So make a telomerase substitute with some type of chemical inhibitor we can use? Sounds pretty difficult. Would computer protein models be helpful for this?

well transhumanists have nothing to live for, and are essentially nihilist materialists, so I don't see why they would want to live so long in the first place.

I guess they think sexbots and VR porn will be sufficient to distract them for hundreds of years?

>Posts immature shit like this, in a thread which has already discussed very viable paths for immortality.
I should've actually read the thread, before showing you know nothing and are not willing to know something, it really speaks volumes about the new inhabitants of Veeky Forums.
I suggest you should move on, Plebbit and stop clogging up a useful thread and a once vibrant board.

>*I should've = You should've

>viability of immortality
that wasn't the issue I brought up.

well transhumanists have nothing to live for, and are essentially nihilist materialists, so I don't see why they would want to live so long in the first place.

I guess they think sexbots and VR porn will be sufficient to distract them for hundreds of years?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_dohrnii

Can we steal this guy's secret(s)?

Oh sorry, I must've taken it as an attempt to belittle the whole subject.
In that case, I agree, the current nihilistic fad is asinine and often self-defeating.

they'll get to the phase where they are just consciousness uploaded into individual space-pods flying through space indefinitely. They'll fly around space and blow up planets like Thanos. That's about it really. Not much else to do.
Except some will play VR games in their spacepods, but their VR games will be more like a simulated life game where they are born, get married, get a job and die, and live the life of a mortal man, ironically.

Possible? Yes. "significant amount" is the real sticking point here.

Actual aging researchers studying lifespan extension in models consider "literally anything proven to extend a model by anything" as "significant". +50% lifespan is significant but so is +5%. +10% median lifespan from a compound treatment in mice is very big news. By the time anyone reading this is old, I'd be not at all surprised if there are therapies that can maybe give +10-15% lifespan extension in humans, but I have yet to see anything suggesting something more impressive than that is in the works. Combinatorial therapies, chemical cocktails etc might bring things up to +20-30% if we're lucky.

This talk that we're all going to live 500 years or whatever or even become immortal is just not at all in-tune with what the science of aging is actually up to. I mean, aging as a field wasn't even considered a major thing until the late 90s, and there were some really bad false-starts in industry such as Sirtris that soured the fuck out of investors. We're pretty good at finding ways to make yeast and nematode worms live hundreds of percent points longer than normal, but those findings don't even translate up to flies very well and much less so in mice. Lots of promising compounds with extremely interesting-looking in-vitro studies and massive lifespan extension effects in simple model organism studies just do nothing, nothing at all, even in mice, to say nothing of moving them up to primates or humans.

Genetic engineering approaches to attempt to up/downregulate certain pathways are really just pulling on the same levers that many compounds that could be taken already do, only with a genetic approach the change could be difficult to reverse and produce unintended consequences from inaccurate binding to loci in the process of producing these changes. These engineering approaches assume that have pathways figured out to mess with in the first place, and we're not really there yet.

>human immortality
>uploaded consciousness into spacepods flying through space
that isn't human immortality, that isn't even human anymore.

phenomena only exist insofar as the conditions for their existence take the proper form, but all conditions, as far as we can see are subject to change, decay and transience. Even suns die, and galaxies collide. Most likely this entire universe is crumbling apart, we just can't see it atm.
So the idea of actual, literal, "physical" immortality is just the last beacon of hope for dumb materialists faced with their inevitable demise, in what they perceive to be a meaningless and godless world. Shame and pity for them.

That's exactly why we NEED to skip all this stupid bullshit and focus on what we absolutely KNOW works: stem cells and telomere extension. I can just about guarantee that something as simple as regular (monthly, perhaps) doses of immortalized pluripotent stem cells would add noticeable years to a person's life. But we'll NEVER get this because I'm positive at this point that that isn't the goal of these frauds and charlatans.

>500 year old Henry Kissingers
>500 year old Hillary Clintons
>500 year old Faggots molesting children in basements for 500 years
>500 year old Zuckerbergs datamining your children for 500 years

honestly we should go back to living for 50-60 years
much better for our species.

Make me 500 years old and I'll clean the mess up.

there is so much dumb biology in this thread that it hurts

mitosis does not generate new genetic material. telomeres are sequences of DNA repeats that are extended by telomerase and are shorted by each cell cycle. there is absolutely zero 'mix matching' of genetic information that results in genome instability of a dividing cell. there is no DNA repair to conserve telomeres during mitosis. there is no "breaking apart" of your chromosomes during mitosis. the cytoskeletal structure, which is made of cytoskeletal proteins such as actin, tubulin, and myosin, have nothing to do with the genetic manipulation of mitosis other than tertiary roles such as reorganizing spindle fibers.

in have found at least 4 other posts that need serious corrections but will not waste the time unless asked. cancer results from instability of the genome, caused by accumulation of genetic mutations that occur with time as a result of probability given the nature of DNA proof reading and repair mechanisms.

Mitosis requires you to go through DNA replication. That's literally all I was saying.

DNA mix-matching was in reference to Crisis, not regular healthy mitosis. In other words I'm talking about this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakage-fusion-bridge_cycle

If we lived forever, we'd be required to actually deal with our problems if we wanted to see improvement. It doesn't mean it'd work out but I think there's reason to believe it wouldn't automatically end up shitty.

The selfish would realize that their anti-social behavior ultimately results in self harm because they diminish the environment in which they live. They are the reason they don't live in paradise.

Meanwhile, others would be forced to grow stronger and address those who assert unjust authority one way or the other. No "let someone else do it"; it basically demands investment in society and political issues, unless you're okay with being a slave to the machinations of other people for eternity.

It's very easy to criticize when you're not actually doing anything to help: "lol those
professionals are incompetent, I could do it easily but I won't, but I totally could!" . How many papers have you published?

Eat shit. I also wasn't born rich, nor did I inherit millions of dollars. And this has nothing to do with random criticism. These faggots ARE NOT FUCKING DOING THEIR JOBS.

Curing baldness should be about a million times easier than extending lifespan significantly.
Do you see any 90 year old males who went from bald to Conan the Barbarian length hair?
Nope... you gunna die kimosabe