>remedial math
Why is this allowed? If you aren't AT LEAST ready for pre-calc by college you have no business being in college. There isn't "remedial reading" in college, and yet we find it acceptable for students to collect federal aid while learning fucking pre-algebra stuff.
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ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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Because public high schools are held back by the lowest common denominator and universities are thereby forced to offer classes which take this in to consideration.
This is why SATs need to be replaced by IQ tests. Universities prey on brainlets by allowing this bullshit and dragging them into hopeless majors.
>wowww people trying to be less retarded is bad because they're using money that is legally theirs to apply to receive
It's not up to you whether these classes are offered so why don't you shut the tuck up you autistic shithead.
No you fuck off. I'm the one that pays their tuition with my tax dollars. If they have to relearn MIDDLE SCHOOL concepts, they can go back to middle school. They aren't trying to "be less retarded", they are just barely skirting by so they can collect their useless English degree they've been told is just as legitimate as mine, all while I pay for it.
>tax dollars more important than education
lol, I'm pretty sure you haven't thought this one through dumbass
>gb2 middle school
Which is paid for by your taxes, and that's what they're doing
>they aren't trying to be less retarded they're trying to get a useless degree
Show some evidence for this claim you fucknugget
Blame the public education system which is the actual tax drain. Federal funding for college is a drop in the ocean compared to what we spend on our atrocious public education.
To be honest with you most kids going into college starting with pre-calc or calculus don't actually have a good grasp of algebra and could benefit from remedial or review courses.
Also that picture isn't pre-algebra it's algebra 2. Concepts that are fundamental to learning calc. So why are you pissed? What should they do instead just give up on education? Kys.
>be American
>American school system fails to teach me math before I get out of publicly funded schooling
>try to seek an education for myself
>some dude on Veeky Forums says I don't deserve a chance to learn
>seek an education for myself because public school failed me
People like this don't exist
If you're going to deny reality you need to go to a more appropriate board like /pol or /b
just teach it to yourself
>I'm the one that pays their tuition with my tax dollars.
You also pay for the roads and highways so millions of chucklefucks can grind it down to a broken mess, cause accidents that stop traffic for hours, kill people because they're too drunk or stupid to pay attention and hit animals to become road kill left on the streets to rot for days and weeks.
But here you are on a fucking chinese cartoon board bitching about young adults trying to atleast attempt not to be complete retarded brainlets through remedial courses.
Sorry to say this but you're the one who needs to fuck off.
The education system didn't fail to teach you math it failed to instill a curiosity and enjoyment in math. It's the environment of public school and the teachers unions that really ruin it.
You can get a great education at a non-inner city public school, but there's no one pushing you to do so. There's no one assessing whether you would benefit from harder classes. You can't efficiently cater individually or even categorically to 5,000 students.
You should blame your parents as much as the school system since that's really their role more than anyone else's.
IS THERE REALLY NO HOPE FOR BRAINLETS Veeky Forums?!
These retards pay for your fancy 1 million dollars labs. Be grateful for brainlets.
How does one start teaching themselves when they were udecated by a system that failed to teach them basic math?
How can I blame them when they were born into the exact same system where they continually were denied opportunity to be curious? More importantly, if I'm trying now why am I undeserving of a chance to try?
>udecated
i kek'd
Lol
google + discipline
it's all about how bad you want it, there's never really an excuse
Just pick up a subject and study it. You don't need "hope", you need to act. Good things rarely come for free.
None of this has anything to do with the argument
I'm not making an excuse, I'm going to the local community college and learning it there, as that's the only option that seems realistic to me. Ok seems to think I'm doing something wrong by taking advantage of a program that could better myself and my life.
Some people, like myself, just never really gave a shit about math. I went from barely passing to scoring straight tens after a little bit of self study.
Public schools are trash. Go tax your mother, anyone who claims I should be forced to pay someone else's education is a bad person.
but it's so trivial
I don't think you're making a mistake. Keep going bro. I genuinely appreciate anyone who wants to learn, regardless of how they choose to learn.
>Why is this allowed?
Because it's profitable for colleges to accept as many students as possible, duh.
It has nothing to do with prior education.
I think something changed in the narrative. Nowadays there's some kind of an omnipresent contempt towards people without a degree.
So instead of changing their attitude towards them people went to college themselves to avoid that stigma. I think this odium has something to do with Trumps success.
In this narrative college is an undeniable good, always a step forward. Even if it isn't - there is a fuckton of people whose life got worse or even ruined by going to college.
I don't get this, who actually gets rich from this? I suppose they can reinvest it in research grants, but that doesn't sound right, but idk if it's illegal. Anyways, if they just invest it in the uni who the hell cares? At the end those brainlets are paying for me to have a better experience.
...
>At the end those brainlets are paying for me to have a better experience.
Well, as long as it also benefits you to live in a society full of bankrupts who lost their most productive years sitting on their asses.
Colleges are fishing for suckers that won't benefit from a college education but are willing to become indebted for decades just to have that symbol of status which is a diploma.
Sport scholarships & affirmative action.
>Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column.
>African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.
>She points to the second column.
>“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”
>The last column draws gasps.
>Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.
>“Do Asians need higher test scores? Is it harder for Asians to get into college? The answer is yes,” Lee says.
>latimes.com
>A CNN study of the reading levels of athletes at 21 public universities: “Some college athletes play like adults, read like fifth-graders.”
>For those familiar with college athletics — especially the sports that bring in the millions — that’s not exactly a news flash. But a researcher at the University of North Carolina, Mary Willingham, came in for particular vitriol after reporting that of 183 Tar Heel football or basketball players, 60 percent were reading at levels between fourth and eighth grade.
>She also cited the example of one basketball player who came to her for help early in her career who could not read or write. In response, the university issued a statement saying it did not believe her claim about an illiterate player — adding it could not comment on the other claims because it didn’t have the data. CNN says it has e-mails showing the university knew about the research, had even given its permission and has the data.
>We note that Willingham’s numbers about UNC accord come in the context of the study’s larger finding that “most schools have between 7 percent and 18 percent of revenue sport athletes who are reading at an elementary school level.” Recall too that UNC is the same school where just two years back 18 members of the football team took a class that existed only on paper.
>nypost.com
>"So what are the classes they are going to take to get a degree here? You cannot come here with a third-, fourth- or fifth-grade education and get a degree here,"
>The issue was highlighted at UNC two years ago with the exposure of a scandal where students, many of them athletes, were given grades for classes they didn't attend, and where they did nothing more than turn in a single paper. Last month, a North Carolina grand jury indicted a professor at the center of the scandal on fraud charges.
>The NCAA admits that almost 30 athletes in sports that make revenue for schools were accepted in 2012 with very low scores -- below 700 on the SAT composite, where the national average is 1000. That's a small percentage of about 5,700 revenue-sport athletes.
>According to those academic experts, the threshold for being college-literate is a score of 400 on the SAT critical reading or writing test. On the ACT, that threshold is 16.
>Many student-athletes scored in the 200s and 300s on the SAT critical reading test -- a threshold that experts told us was an elementary reading level and too low for college classes. The lowest score possible on that part of the SAT is 200, and the national average is 500.
>On the ACT, we found some students scoring in the single digits, when the highest possible score is 36 and the national average is 20. In most cases, the team average ACT reading score was in the high teens.
>"Those people who do that should be arrested," Hill said. "We should make it against the law. I know it happens. I've spent time in athletics."
>"They're graduating them, but have they learned anything? Are they productive citizens now? That's a thing I worry about. To get a degree is one thing, to be functional with that degree is totally different."
>"College presidents have put in jeopardy the academic credibility of their universities just so we can have this entertainment industry."
>cnn.com
If they have to take remdial math I don't think they did well on the SAT
I agree that it is, I'm doing very well in my classes. I never got am opportunity to learn even the most trivial parts of math despite getting a diploma, I don't even really know how, I only took one math class in highschool and it was as a freshman. As I recall I got C.
I just don't see why someone like OP has to be mad, if people like me who are willing to try have the option to we can make our lives better and contribute more to our society, we just need the chance, we just need someone to inform our thinking enough to be able to know to try. I think being able to go back to school has done a lot for me, without this community college is just be some retard, now at least I know enough to try to work towards better.
>changing the goalposts
I'm from europe so I don't quite get it - how does it work in the us? In europe higher ed doesn't have such strong ties with sports. Sure, there are college teams and whatever, but in most cases they aren't anything serious. It's usually done by separate organizations at this level.
Why do colleges in the us are so tied to sports? Most obviously, they benefit from it somehow, but on what principle? How does it work?
I took 3 years off after high school before going back to university. In that time all the math I knew, all the way back to FOIL.
I taught myself from an intermediate algebra level to a calculus I level in the summer leading up to classes, studying like 2 hours a day. That shit is so simple, there is no reason to waste money taking classes.
You start by mention "bonus points" then go on to talk about how athletic scholarships are often bullshit and only exist to make the college money. News flash, nigger, that's not the players/students fault, it's the school and their greed clearly.
Commercially, basically they pay the student athlete by giving them a 100% discount on those education (so they can be a student) and offer them a scholarship of some kind that pays for the things they need (like food and housing) it tends to not cost very much. The "student" still pays taxes on the received value of the schooling while also agreeing that the value of their athletic ability is $0. College football is a huge, multimillion dollar industry that basically pays nothing to it's star athletes while also throwing them degrees they often can't even use and don't deserve. This thread started on a very different topic though, the whole sports issue is a side tangent at best.
They know damn well they have no business in university.
kys
t. Failed algebra
I fucked up in highschool and dropped out. I then took a retry highschool for failures (about 10 years later) which was paid by the government and I'm now doing a bachelor in mathematics which is also pretty much entirely paid for by the government.
The ROI on education is high and it's better to offer these remedial classes to failures such as myself if a reasonable group of them moves on to be a more productive member of society.
Yeah And? When someone says "hey, id like you to do the only thing you're actually good at, for money. Also were gonna give you a degree you couldn't possibly earn without this"
Would you say no? Should you say No? Is it wrong for you to say yes and make your life drastically better?
>google + discipline
Kek, aren't those two mutually exclusive?
Beside that, having that student-teacher feedback loop is crucial to learning. It takes much less time when there's someone to check your answers, to help you with that piece of theory or one problem you've choked on and couldn't solve for two days (anyone who've tried self learning knows what I mean), make sure your understanding isn't misguided (you won't even know it is), give you problems that HE chose not you (you can't asses properly if a problem is right for you if you don't know the subject already - a teacher will know if the problem is too simple or too hard; also, he'll make sure you won't stay in your comfort zone), and generally point you in the right direction so you won't waste time wandering on side topics or learning unimportant details. Also: teachers give deadlines.
The time you'll save is worth the money imo.
>math grad
>productive member of society
If we didn't offer these courses we would quickly run out of university educated Diversity Professionals and Inclusion Strategists.
He'll probably become a teacher or sth. That's pretty productive imo.
Go back to /pol.
>the ROI on education is high
Depends, if you're not smart enough for higher education you are wasting your's and other people's time and resources
And despite that, the ROI is still really high.
Yeah, but as a country it makes sense to invest in cheap education. Wasting some resources on people who aren't smart enough is less of an issue than not increasing the total education of your population. It's not like you're going to allow them to waste time indefinitely.
no u
He's right though.
We don't care though.
There is no "we" brainlet, just you in front of your computer.
well, I didn't write that, so there has to be some "we".
>people shouldn't be allowed to advance themselves so that I can laugh at them
You are everything wrong with the world
Then write "some of us" next time.
THICC
>id like you to do the only thing you're actually good at, for money
>for money
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. They pay for the pleasure of playing. Only a handful ever make pro and get paid after they graduate.
But at least they have a degree in African American Studies....
Are these remedial classes able to be counted toward the minimum hours required by the degree? Because if not, you end up taking people who have the hardest time taking N credits in 4 years and forcing them to take N+3 credit hours in 4 years.
My school purposely fucks people over with a "placement test" that forces everyone into college algebra so that you pay for more classes
We need to decolonize mathematics.
If you bring up the tax payer argument you leave yourself open to such criticism. It isn't changing goal posts it's objectively understanding the overall picture when comparing the two.
Let it be known that you pay at least 46 times the cost of remedial classes on just highway maintenance alone.
>$69 billion
frontiergroup.org
Then you pay $35 billion on said crashes which is 23 times the cost of remedial classes.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
People who walk, bike and take public transportation have to pay easily more than their fair share on highways. But for some reason brainlets like you think you deserve special attention on remedial course spending. The truth is you don't and you're a fucking joke for even trying to contest it.
Common course of study in college is cancerous.Students should have to take a set number of courses relevant to their degrees and then some electives. Only reason for common course is to wring a couple more semesters out of you.
They get paid a stipend to live off of while they are "studying" (playing whichever sportvalk game)
What did you think I meant? That they all made millions? Are you stupid?
According to my school, they dont. I've had others tell me that's not true, I'll have to see.
I have an education gap from 6th to 12th grade where I NEETed it up before I obtained a GED after two weeks of studying, so my education really only started during college. I had to take one remedial math course my first semester (three years ago) and I've done fine since then. I never had any problems after that one remedial class, which really makes me think that all the non-AP courses taught before college are just a waste of time.
That being said though, I doubt I could have gotten into any top 100 university because of where I started, so I just went the associates degree from a community college to transferring to a local university for a bachelor's route (which is in ranked in the lowish 200s in the US).
Kinda jealous you got to NEET it up for that long. I'm about to leave school and go straight into a job, there is no break!
It was kind of fun, but it gets boring. I really feel like I should have studied on my own during that time, but there's no helping it now. I actually enjoy myself more nowadays because breaks where I can just relax and goof off are more special.
I just wonder how you were able to just not go through half of middle school and all of high school. Pretty sure police would literally knock down your door.
>How can I blame them when they were born into the exact same system where they continually were denied opportunity to be curious?
Not him but if they went through a shit situation, and realized it was a shit situation, why would they then knowingly put their kids through the same hell? It's sheer negligence.
They don't know that it was shit, or they know it's shit but don't know how to do better, becuase they received such a poor education.
Just curious, I'm a Canadian so I can't really speak about the American education system.
But, in my experience, it's usually the student that fails to learn math because they aren't willing to work at it. Society tells them it's "Okay to be bad at math" because "Not everyone is a math person" which is a load of shit, considering that practice is what makes you a good math student.
Is this really the fault of the education system, or society in general, and their ignorant views on Math and learning in general?
But they do have remedial reading. They also have classes for ESL students learning english.
>amerishart.edu
I was registered as a homeschooler and took the standardized test once a year. I just managed to pass it without studying because it was almost entirely 1-5th grade math and basic reading concepts.
This teacher seems like a total cunt. It's not the professor's job to be offended at the ignorance of his students. His job is to purvey knowledge. To educate. This and this alone is his concern. I don't doubt his premise but his attitude is shit.
Both to an extent I'm sure. Part of the issue here in America is that things like "Not everyone is a math person" are used to justify not teaching children math.
People are lazy and don't to be accountable for their actions. It's easy to say "I'm bad at math" rather than say "I don't work hard enough" because the latter would be your fault.
People who talk about being failed by the education system are delusional. There is nobody out there who does everything the teacher tells them and does their best to learn and doesn't know basic algebra at a school that meets federal and state requirements.
And know he can use all those roads for free. He doesn't benefit from remedial math at all.
What is the content of a "college algebra" course, exactly? Has anyone taken it?
In joblessness-induced desperation, I took a trade last year and went to a trades school. Since I was one of the only people who gave a shit (and ended up with 100%) in the math class, I was asked to tutor by the instructor. Some of these kids, man... some have a real problem doing very basic math. But most of them? Just don't give a shit, literally playing on their phones during class.
Our class was mostly algebra and we ended with basic trigonometry. Like literally a^2 + 5 = 30 type shit. I'm pretty sure carpenters, plumbers and welders don't have to do math at the high school level at all, because they just learn it "again", the grade 10 stuff at least, at college. And hardly use it anyway.
It's true that in math its mainly quantity over quality, and I couldn't agree more its not stressed enough that you have to solve literally thousands of problems to be good at math, whether you're a genius or not, but OTOH math is also probably the easiest subject to fall behind in school.
In other subjects if you're not great at some topic you just move along with the material and everything is fine. In math if you (*) screw up one topic it's gonna bite you in the ass hard along the line. The longer the line is, the exponentially greater the clusterfuck of a task it is to turn it around. Sometimes it's just easier to do over the whole material from A to Z.
The best thing you can do to your students as a teacher is monitor when those "hiccups" happen and intervene asap with remedies. Those hiccups are perfectly natural, anyone has them, for whatever reason. Sometimes students are just not interested in the subject. Often they aren't interested because they have trouble with it. You won't "save" everyone, but remedies just work.
Of course if your school isn't fucked up like the one where my gf works, where she has to pay even for the paper (fucking paper!) for her classes and other class materials from her own pocket and god forbid, having extra hours for her students that she'd get paid for. She quits teaching (her lifelong dream btw) next year, because she sees no more hope in education. She gets paid shit, literally less than at mcdonalds, she has no freedom to make her own decisions, everyday she brings ton of work home and sits at it till late evening, in one class 90% of the time is spent fighting for attention because the homeroom teacher of that class did shit job at disciplining them before handing them over to her (guess who gets the blame now).
(*) Or you teacher. Imagine having a substitute teacher for a year that's shit and then when your original teacher gets back he can't really do over that material but has to go along with it
>The tests were almost entirely 5th grade math and basic reading concepts.
Sounds like the thing Amish kids take.
>People who talk about being failed by the education system are delusional
I believe them. Just because your school didn't fuck up doesn't mean others didn't. I was a good student, I went to rather good schools, but learning physics in school before college was impossible in my case. In the middle school the teacher went too easy on us (even on middle school level) and in HS my physic teacher had to change in the middle because he literally went mentally insane and we got as a substitute a requalified biology teacher lol
What this guy is saying mostly When I took it, it was just covering the basics of polynomials, plotting intercepts, logarithms, and there may have been a little trig, but I don't remember it.
Sounds about right. It's designed so that people who only know the basics of the basics can pass it.
Sorry about deleting that post btw, I was just editing it to make it clearer.
>People who talk about being failed by the education system are delusional.
This is all that's needed to know you're a worthless human.
SATs are already IQ tests.
The only problem is letting people without at minimum a +1 SD SAT score into colleges.
They haven't been IQ tests since 1994, when they had a 0.8 correlation with g. They're hardly g-loaded these days, to the point where anyone can get a 1400+
This. Why is user mad at remedial math classes taught in college? He should be mad at the 12 years of education students get that leave them unprepared for college level math.
Really this is what you would expect from an education system that is geared for the LCD .
The thing about highways is that they pay themselves back hundreds of time over. The US economy simply could not function without highways, it could easily do without remedial courses. The thing about remedial courses it's that they not only waste the money of taxpayers, but they waste the time and money of students too. And it costing little doesn't mean is alright to use other people's money unjustly. It would only cost taxpayers 5 million dollars to buy me a mansion, that doesn't mean it's justified for you to spend the money that way.
>also: extra points for getting triggered dipshit
I think most people who criticize remedial courses recognize this. It's more of a spectacle than a core issue. The core issue it's that a state-funded education is obsolete. Btw OP said pre calc not pre algebra