Give me a good reason NOT to be vegan that doesn't involve "Vegans are faggots and not eating animal products is...

Give me a good reason NOT to be vegan that doesn't involve "Vegans are faggots and not eating animal products is unmanly" or "Meat/cheese tastes too good to give up" as an answer.

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telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-dna-raising-risk-of-canc/
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It's inconvenient? That's the main reason for me.

hotdog

No. Eat what you like, user.
I suppose the only real way to tackle this argument is that vegans have to eat carefully to get all their nutrients and unless you love peanut butter or beans, you might have trouble getting all your protein.

Vegans are faggots

If our ancestors were vegan, we'd still be Africa-tier. So there's that.

However, it's your freedom son. Best to you.

This is a good post.

I'd agree with this. Extremely inconvenient, and in my opinion, it limits you too much on what you can actually cook and eat.

Just think about how many things require eggs or butter

Why should I? Why should I care what you decide to put in your mouth? If you want to live a pseudo moral based lifestyle to satiate your narcissistic self conscious then so be it.


I'll be here in the real world enjoying bacon and steak.

Being vegan is the equivalent of being on double strength HRT for your entire life

Meat does taste good though.

Veganism increases your chances of getting cancer

telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-dna-raising-risk-of-canc/

I answer this question almost every day either here or on Veeky Forums.

I was a vegan for two years (non-concurrent, one when I was 13 and a year when I was 19-20)

Both times I became extremely weak and sick. The most recent year, when I was 19, I went to the doctor to r/o any diseases and find out why I was chronically, fatigued, having muscle tremors, etc. and the only level that came back after doing a huge, extensive panel (thyroid, adrenals, etc.) was extremely low cholesterol. My vitamin D was fine, B2, 6 & 12 were fine- it was just the cholesterol. So I started eating meat again, and big surprise, I didn't feel like shit anymore after about two weeks.

Hypocholestemia hasn't been studied much because it's virtually unheard of in the developed world, as you have to be completely vegan for your levels to tank as far as mine did. Most people are fat and have high cholesterol, so we've demonized fats, when in reality they're absolutely essential for health. Hypocholestemia is suspected to cause cardiac arrhythmia and known to cause depression.

That said, I'm extremely empathetic towards all life (arachnophobe who catches spiders and takes them outside) and believe it's incredibly wrong to treat animals the way we do in the mass production of meat. I source all meat and eggs that I eat from local farmers who gently lead them to slaughter far away from their family. The farmer I buy from actually uses a .45 to kill his cattle, as its much faster than slicing the carotid (or the bovine equivalent). I resent that I can't survive and feel healthy and well without eating meat, so I make sure the animals I consume don't suffer.

Not to mention certain nutrients that aren't as common in plant sources, especially B12. Definitely not saying vegans can't get the recommended dietary allowances like everyone else can, but they do have to be careful to make sure they're not deficient in one or more.

vegan hotdog

I'm all for meat substitutes but all of the vegan hot dogs I've tried tasted pretty terrible.

Milk and eggs basically have the highest quality proteins. Red meat has easily digestible iron.

I was a vegetarian for a couple of years but once I started exercising I had insane cravings for red meat and the taste of iron. I was already eating vegetarian foods high in iron but it wasn't the same, the iron found in animal products is more easily absorbed.

You can cut down on your meat consumption, I'll have meat maybe once or twice a week and eat my fill of it but then go vegetarian the rest of the time.

Also, when lab-grown meat is available in stores there will literally be no point in being vegan. Most vegans will probably start eating it and there will be more discussions of animal meat vs lab-grown meat.

I tried them once and they all had a strangely soft texture. The lack of fat made them pretty bad too, and they smelled kind of funny. I think it was the pea protein.

Boca burgers are pretty good though.

Take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself: are these forward-facing eyes the eyes of a plant-eating prey animal?

Take a long walk in the dark woods, worry not traveler, though you've been blinded by the lights of modernity your eyes will soon adjust to the darkness. Ask yourself, are these the eyes of anything but a predator?

While you're walking through the wood forage for yourself on the ground food. Plant matter, roots, leaves, if you're lucky some berries. Swallow them all down now, there's a good traveler. You're still hungry, yes? You have not the rumen of grazing animals, this pittance will never sustain you.

Venture off the trail. The timid deer picks through the wood. A chill pricks at your bare skin, your ape's fur long-since discarded by the march of evolution. But surely the hide of the deer is warm.

See the deer, silhouetted in moonlight, his antlers a formidable weapon, for another deer or a lesser predator perhaps, but for you they are already a tool.

You pounce, the beast could outrun you a at a distance, but among the trees and over such a short distance it's hopeless. Grab the bone of the antler tightly.

Your evolved brain knows well the principle of leverage, it has for eon before it was considered a physical law

A sharp wrench and the beast falls, its broken neck bleating out a final call, not to arms, not to curse your name, but simple bellow to retreat, the beast knows what you are.

You find a sharp rock by instinct and slice the beast's belly open. If you had been deficient in some vitamin you may have felt the uncanny urge to eat some of these entrails, but for now you throw them aside, a bounty of energy for the forest.

You make a fire, the only beast of the earth who knows its secrets.

As the fat of the deer crackles into the fire you sit naked to the waist, blood drying on your arms and chest.

At last you understand.

There is no moral justification to eat meat
But we are on Veeky Forums
Most people here have little regard for morals

Every vegan I've ever known long enough developed some terrible health condition after about 4 to 7 years. There is a crazy balancing act you need to play and you can't be a picky eater in the slightest. Malnutrition will sneak up on you slowly and take as long to get rid of as it did to happen.

False, I've tried them and could genuinely not tell the difference. You must be some Amerifat.

Which did you try?

>You must be some Amerifat.
>American's have more refined palates than muh superior yuros.
>mfw the narrative collapses on itself.

meat tastes good

Good luck gaining muscle mass without meat

Veganism is shit and will hurt more animals.

because i want to and i can

You should just eat a very small amount of meat compared to the average consumption. There is some ethical and ecological reasons to raise meat on a smalll scale. For one there are many areas animals graze that could not be used as farmland and so it produces food that otherwise couldn't be made. There are also byproducts of high yield crops that humans are unable to make nutritional useage of that animals can. Therefore you can be a vegan, especially because plenty of other people are going to keep eating meat and more power to you, eat what you want but the production of meat and animal byproducts does have a place and need.

Its simple shithead: meat contains protein and iron that your body craves. Plus seafood like oysters contain zinc which helps with prostate health and shrimp contains glucosamine which is key for joint health.

You'll be limiting yourself as someone who makes food.

You have to cook all your meals and constantly eat huge portions or else youll end up a skeleton. Thats the main reason i quit. never being able to eat out or enjoy other cuisines is a dealbreaker

I cut dairy and eggs but still have some lean cuts or fish twice a week. Flexitarian master race

I don't give a fuck about animals. Hell, the more misery they fell, the merrier.

stale meme

Because as a human I'm an omnivore. That means I eat plants and meat. Humans have been doing this for as long as we as a species have existed because it's in our natural diet.

In theory, there's no real reason not to eat eggs or dairy.

But those are the best reasons, OP.

This. Chickens naturally lay unfertilised eggs to remove them from the body, an analogous process to menstruation in humans and other mammals. We've simply selectively bred chickens to lay far longer than natural, which doesn't decrease their quality of life.

Dairy cows are bred to produce more milk than their calves can possibly drink, which necessitates milking in order to prevent an agonising death by mastitis. If demand for milk were to dry up, we would essentially be condemning an entire species to death by disease or culling by farmers.

if taste is not a concern for you, go be a vegan. i have no argument against veganism if it's based on a preference of taste.

i don't wanna

Its really hard to gain weight if youre a skeleton like me

Brutal truth

Not from a dietary or health perspective but factory farming is pretty bad for the environment and animal welfare. But, that just means we need to come up with better ways of providing those products (lab-grown meat) and taking care of the environment instead of just getting rid of them.

Vegans being faggots is the # 1 and most important reason to not become a vegan. Vegan = liking it up the asshole.

I think that hopping over to lab grown meat for milk and eggs is a bit overdoing it.

Probably smaller-than-factory farms that can afford to do legitimate free-range operation would help out with the animal welfare issue in that regard.

Yeah, even a lot of meat eaters recommend buying meat from smaller farms when you can. Lab-grown meat will help with that too. But, there's still the problem of the animals not living their full lives and potential botched slaughters causing them pain and suffering. A lot of people are just turned off by the blood and death, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

And it's not like cows and pigs and chickens will go extinct because most people stop eating them. We'll want to keep them happy and healthy on smaller farms to have as a backup supply of cells for lab-grown meat. Probably keep them in zoos or petting farms to educate children too.

I wonder how many hours PETA spent prepping that scene. They probably gave the cows bubble baths and hand-combed them

And then killed them because humans shouldn't own animals. They're much happier being eaten alive or starving to death in the wild.

So you must be the biggest vegan in the world!

you do you

Personally, veganism did more damage for me than good. After taking too much acid I went full on new age raw-ish vegan for a year until I started losing lots of hair... and my period stopped for six months. Started eating fish and chicken again, and within two months Aunt Flo came back!
I also alienated all my friends due to the evangelical nature of being an "ethical vegan".

Nah, there are two types of vegans.

One type is just vegan because they think factory farming is bad for animals and the environment. They don't talk about it much, and when they do they're logical and rational, and they don't use buzzwords or call people names. They don't get much attention.

The other type laughs at people who become allergic to red meat after getting a disease from a tick. They throw away meat that's given to them instead of eating it, even though they aren't supporting the industry, they would rather disrespect the animal by throwing the meat away and wasting food. They fail to see the hypocrisy in claiming to be doing something for animal welfare while treating every non-vegan like garbage. They get most of the attention, sadly.

you bring up an interesting thought. domesticated animals have it pretty easy. unless we are talking about those white chickens who are clusterfucked in dim warehouses, many livestock dont have it too bad.

The human body is built to digest animal flesh and animal proucts

those are some cute moolets

good thing they are abundant, so I can appreciate them for being both cute and delicious without damaging the population

Yeah originally it was a good symbiotic relationship for a long time. If we could talk to animals I think they would tell us they don't want to go back to the wild with no help from us, but they don't want to be stuck in factory farms either. I think supporting lab-grown meat and then keeping some of them in zoos/petting zoos and farms for backup supplies is the best way forward.

>and within two months Aunt Flo came back
I'm no expert but that sounds like a bad thing.

Havent been keeping up with the recent news about labgrown meat. I assume its just cell stocks that are replicated again and again? In any case, we humans have the same symbiotic relationship with lots of plantlife as well as with animals. If we could treat the animals better I see it as a win-win for both species'

i wanna know what breed that is. the white one with black nose, ears, and hoofsies is too cute

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>co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr

>I assume its just cell stocks that are replicated again and again?
Pretty much. It's about $20/lb for lab-grown ground beef right now which is too much for most people but it was like $250000/lb in the early stages so it's an improvement.

There are also some other issues like it having no fat which results in a poor flavor and texture, and dryness. There's no heme iron in it either which isn't great, and no lactose in lab milk which is good for some people but not everyone. It also currently needs bovine growth serum which is basically filtered calf blood but they're working on a replacement for that too. I think it's supposed to be available within 5 years, or 10 at the most.

no its not. Animals that were meant to eat meat dont get atherosclerosis. Theres a reason the number one cause of death in people is heart disease, its from all of the meat we eat that we shouldn't be eating

exactly and both have the nutrients to support young life so ofc it's going to be good for your nutrition

We aren't supposed to be mainly eating meat like a lot of people do, especially while not having any fresh vegetables or whole grains, and consuming WAY too much sugar. Not to mention the obesity and lack of exercise that's common now. To blame it all on meat is ignoring many other factors.

How do you explain the fact that some people have evolved to digest lactose into adulthood? It's certainly not to keep drinking human breast milk.

Every culture in history has ate at least some meat. Meat has benefits but if you eat as much as the average american AND never walk/run etc then it becomes a problem

I don't need a reason. Blow it out your ass.

dook pls

Animal lives are simply worth so little that even momentary pleasure outweighs them.

It won't really fix the sadness in your heart. You should consider growing your own food though.

Killing things is fun. It's pointless to waste the offal.

It's unnatural.

I completely agree that people are eating way too much meat, that is simply a fact. But cutting out completely? This does not need to be an "Yes/No" answer. I eat meat once or at most twice a week. Get everything i need.

>I eat meat once or at most twice a week.
This is basically what I do. I'll eat as much meat as I want when I do have it which usually ends up being close to a pound. I'm pretty tall and lift weights almost every day though, so most people will eat less. And I still end up eating less meat than people who have smaller amounts with multiple meals every day.

Plus, eating your fill of meat until you're satisfied and don't want anymore makes it easier for you to eat vegetarian the rest of the week. After I've had that much meat I really don't want it again for a while. I think the people who say to only have like 4 ounces of meat with dinner ends up leading to people having more cravings.

Once you realize how wasteful it is it kinda changes how you think. Here:

Almost all energy life needs comes from the sun. Maybe 10% of the energy of sunlight is photosynthesized by plants (well, and cyanobacteria and some other things). The rest basically just warms it.
Remember, all proteins are in the end created by plants; all other type of proteins are just consumed by animals and transformed.

Now, this 10% (or was it 1%? I forget) is then eaten by herbivores. And if you eat those herbivores, you also get that 10% of energy that animal ate (cause a large part of it goes just into keeping the animal alive). Imagine how much less it is if the animal is in a chain of carnivores. So it's much less wasteful to eat plants than animals from this energy perspective. Something like this is the argument I would use for veganism. I don't really care about muh animals suffering or whatever, I'm more of an autist that really minds optimization and minimizing waste.

You're a good person

It's easier for our bodies to absorb proteins and other nutrients from animal products though. Say you get 100% of the protein from milk, from some plants you'll only get 70% of the protein, which means you'll have to eat more plants to get the same amount of protein.

Oh my God just imagining the baby cows in a bubble bath is even cuter than the pic ah thanks user

If it's not meat, it's not a meal.

Thanks OP now I want steak for breakfast.

>arachnophobe who catches spiders and takes them outside
I'm not afraid of spiders but I do this too. I started to feel differently about them when I was growing some vegetables and saw these cute little green spiders hopping around on my plants, and I knew that they were keeping pests away.

>I resent that I can't survive and feel healthy and well without eating meat, so I make sure the animals I consume don't suffer.
This is good and what I try to do too, especially making sure to never waste any animal products. Just try to support the development of lab-grown meat and ask for it to be as close to the real thing as possible. They're currently doing things like making it without heme iron and saying it's better this way which I don't believe, but it doesn't make me give up hope for lab-grown meat to be something good in the future.

Nothing wrong with eating eggs or drinking milk, but cheese is made with gut flora from cow intestine, so it involves slaughtering cattle

I find it funny that vegans think they are saving the world. Like changing our eating habbits will somehow absolve us from our massive population spike and associated waste products. We will literally run out of productive land to feed our ever growing population and we will kill each other. Then i plan on turning to human meat

>habbits
I've got no dog in this fight, but why is it that the anti-vegans in these threads always sound like they were home schooled by evangelical christians?

On a related note why are there 10 different vegan vs anti-vegan threads in the catalog and one single wine thread isn't even allowed?

>We will literally run out of productive land to feed our ever growing population
Vertical farms and lab-grown meat are going to help with that. It's okay to be realistic and think of bad things that could happen but to prevent them.

There's no need.

I would like to go vegan but i won't be able to deal with the side-effects, especially considering how skinny i already am.

Overpopulation will reduce our quality of life.

The solution is less population.

COWS WOULD LITERALLY GO EXTINCT IF WE STOPPED FARMING THEM.

Seriously, those beasts are fragile as fuck and extremely dumb, thanks to millennia of selective breeding to create the most docile farm animal.

>The solution is less population.
through better technology and colonizing other planets, not some /pol/ fantasy mass cull

If we stopped eating them we'd probably just keep them on farms for backup supplies of cells for lab-grown meat or other such things, or zoos to educate children, they won't completely disappear.

Absolutely false! No cheese culture, wild or cultured, is produced by slaughtering cattle; the bacterias and moulds within them can be found in the environment and on the skin of the cow.

What you might be referring to is rennet, the digestive enzymes that are used to curdle milk for cheese, which is indeed derived as a byproduct from slaughtered calves. However, vegetarian alternatives for rennet exist, and many cheeses do not require rennet at all (e.g. mascarpone, cottage cheese, and paneer).

>It's inconvenient? That's the main reason for me.
This. I could give up meat somewhat easily, as I dont eat it often anyway. Dairy and eggs would be much more difficult to let go, though.

i'm not going to reproduce so i figure i've contributed enough to this planet

This bullshit belongs into /pol/ if anywhere at all but not here. Are you mods sleeping?

hotdog

>muh powl
t. Blue haired otherkin. Seriously though, in country with high birthrates species are quickly sliding into extinction due to all the land being used for housing, roads and agriculture

>vegan threads dont belong on Veeky Forums
Hows the 70 IQ working for ya? You know we can talk about not McChicken food, right?

The fact that pro choice vegans exist turned me off to the movement. These people cry about chickens but are fine with dead babies what the fuck

Do what you want, as long you don't try to force it on others, or if its illegal or shit.

There's no pain and suffering involved with aborting a fetus. There is plenty of pain and suffering involved with raising animals for meat.

That's the logic. It's not about "life", it's about pain/suffering.

There's also a legal angle. I know many people who are opposed to the idea of abortion but favor it being legal because at least then it can be controlled. Making something illegal does not get rid of it. Insted it creates a black market where that thing is still practiced, except now it is under shady conditions & necessarily involves criminal elements. That is worse than the alternative, as we can see with the war on drugs, for example.

About to become a moot point with lab grown meat.