He fell for the "CS is a meme" meme

>doing solely CS
Why are you wasting your money? Srs question.

Were stereotyped as not giving a shit about anything we're studying, just chasing checks. It also has a reputation of attracting people who "just want to make games", who don't realize that Computer Science is a decent chunk of math etc. On a board that likes to think they value knowledge for knowledge's sake, that's pretty damning.
But in my experience, my particular uni was pretty good about filtering out money-hungry normies pretty quickly. I've heard some horror stories though. Like in some programs CS majors don't even have to take Calc I or II.
I'm just here because I really love programming.

nerve.com/scanner/2009/07/20/virginity-rates-divided-by-college-major

>[math] \textbf{Falling for the ((...(CS is a meme)meme)...meme)} [/math]

So you're telling me if I will finally get laid if I get into Studio arts?

Women love artists dude. Yeah their prospects at employment are s h i t, just awful, like math majors and Physics majors give each other shit but for these guys they may as well have not gone to college. They're on the lowest tier with photography and drama in terms of how thoroughly useless they are. Even so they get to go around being "artists" for 4-5 years, doing drugs, never studying, and absolutely slaying poon. It's an interesting choice to make and I wouldn't automatically consider them wrong

Is IT a good degree? I want to get into network administration and security.

>Computer Science is normie now

dropped

what do i study now?

Computer Science/Software Eng is one of those things that should in principle be a solid course in its own right, but the fashions it's gone through has retarded and misdirected it to the point where it really is mostly a piece of paper.

Java schools abound, MIT doesn't even open with SCIP any more. At minimum I should expect any graduate with a serious degree in computing to be able to write an implementation of a polymorphic object system in C, along with a basic garbage collector. Filler 'business' classes (which I wouldn't have an issue with if they taught meaningful financial knowledge and were mostly non-mandatory) should be jettisoned to make room for studies in statistics, numerical analysis and deeper theory of parallel processing. Graphics should be taught such that the student should be able to implement their own renderer without simply relying on an API. AI studies should be introduced earlier.

There's this unfortunate split between the drive for 'practical' skillsets in Software Eng (which should be all means be an apprenticeship focused on developing open ended projects instead of the badly formalized thing it is) and the 'theoretical' in formal rationing ever more elaborate compiler type systems that most working programmers will seldom have a use for.

CS is easy, thats why you stop being a little bitch and do EECS or CS+Math

Good thing I'm in UK then.

Actually most UK CS programs outside of a few universities are far worse than North American ones. Same with Australia. If you want CS, your best bet is mainland Europe, USA or Canada.

CS+Math double major here.

Honestly, I think it's because the field is so wide, undergrad is short and needs to cover a general skillset and touch on different methods of reasoning, and because the field is so young that it's easy to bullshit your way through CS without learning a lot. However, it's just as easy to take all the automata, compiler, AI, etc. courses (or even their graduate counterparts) and challenge yourself. I think, more than anything, the combination of oversaturation and many universities obliging the demand for coders who can't do much else has brought a bad name to a really interesting and difficult field.

For undergrad math, there are topics that are well established as canon within a country. With CS, the flavor depends on your uni (luckily I'm at a pretty good,research focused institution)

This.

For computer science, unlike most other STEM-y fields, there is no real standardized curriculum yet. The contents of these programs vary wildly across different universities; I hear it's especially true in America. As a consequences, there are a lot of CS programs out there that are a complete waste of time and money. There are also plenty of CS programs that are just as good as other STEM programs; but it is not always easy for someone trying to get an education to see the difference.

I believe the low reputation of CS on Veeky Forums is due to people who found themselves among the first category of CS programs, got a serious case of sour grapes, and now want to shit on the field as a whole. This is Veeky Forums, after all.

But everything the compsci guy said is true.

Merge sort is bullshit.
you can create a sprting function with any number of extra entry points to sort faster than fewer and the benefits of merge sort always seemed to ignore the fact it's checking multiple indicies.

Of course you can run faster with 2 legs than 1 leg. You can go even faster with 4 wheels though, and faster yet with 6 turbines. Array accesses are the most expensive aspect of sorting and merge sort has a twice as many access as other sorting algorithms, which if you designed them to have multiple checking variables would end up being just as fast or faster than merge sort in trading up more array accesses.

All I've got to say is, 5 years ago when I first decided to go into CS, I used to come on here and feel a little worried/discouraged by all of the anti-CS memery

>Joke STEM degree!
>oversaturated market!
>not a real science!

And now I'm graduated, have the comfiest software engineering job in the world (was really easy to find, in a decent city), get paid well, have tons of free time, and only smirk at this kind of childish shit

so keep that in mind if you're bothered by the "CS is a meme" meme on here. It is 100% straight up sour grapes

Honestly, I think 80%+ of it is just Veeky Forums spouting what they heard on Veeky Forums without actually knowing anything about it beyond a surface-level scan. Or just purposeful shitposting to try and elicit reactions out of people since it's a common degree.

It's mostly the former I'd wager. Keep in mind the average age on Veeky Forums anno 2017 is like 15. Most kids here haven't graduated high-school yet.

shut the fuck up you don't know what you're talking about. I went to a great uni with plenty of theoretical courses. I would have been better prepared for the job market if I went to a technical school. The "better" the school you go to, the less likely you are to use what you learn.

>I got a job so it's the bestest major evar
>Who cares about learning, Ds get degrees!

The really sad thing is these people aren't trolling, they really are this autistic

This is why CS is a laughing stock.

>Why does Veeky Forums hate business majors so much? Are you all just jealous you don't make any money like CEOs do?

I don't think so. Many of the things "CS is a meme"-people complain about ring a bell; many of the things they complain about are accurate and reasonable, for a really existing set of programs calling themselves "computer science" while really being programmer boot camps.

The part where these people absolutely reject the idea that there are many real CS programs out there that are not like this is where the sour grapes enter the story. But overall the complaint is based on too much reality to be entirely baseless shitposting.

you sound like a delusional child. If your goal is to learn, do it as a hobby. The vast majority of people with a science degree will do nothing but record results and re-run experiments for someone with much more authority than them and never have any input on research direction/methods. The vast majority of math majors will never discover anything of significance. If you're a one in a billion person that'll actually change the world, good for you. If you're not, then you're really naive if you don't prioritize getting a good job. Ironic that you'd call others autistic, when only autist belittle people for knowing less than them on some particular subject.

what the fuck are you talking about user

merge sort is great, and the only solution for on-disk sorting

D's earn degrees? You're an idiot. I'm not the guy you're responding to, but I also have an extremely great job making tons of money that's really easy and I set my own hours, because I'm an autist and got all A's and A+'s in my CS degree and took the hardest classes.

"CS sucks" has become such a meme at this point that many people just want to keep the inertia up so they can keep up with the Veeky Forums conversation. At least, that's my take on it.

I think a part of it is this disconnect between the immediate work with a bachelor's degree and graduate school; honestly, anyone can learn to code fairly easily given the time and drive. Ultimately, the hope is that you go into CS with curiosity and intent to learn.

Everybody (including me) likes to knock engineers, but honestly, an ABET accredited program does give a baseline as to what you expect out of engineers. I think CS majors, if they want to keep up, need to go out of their way to learn until such a standard program is established.

But the good news is that I've seen it done. My differential equations professor has a B.S. in computer science and his M.S. and Ph.D in math. I know a CS major who did EE in M.S. and another who went on to do physics. My friend told me (this is unconfirmed) that the big rocketeering simulation software was made by a CS doing an M.S. thesis who wanted to do work in physics and aerospace engineering. Of course, the graduate topics in CS itself are also interesting and calls out to prospective students.
I suspect that the real answer is that given enough self-discipline, respect for rigor, and drive, a STEM degree launches you into a field that's more flexible to your interests than you think.

I don't really get the point of this, are there really programs that don't teach you all that? Seems like it should go without saying that you will have to take those kinds of courses as a CS major.

>student
CS itself is not the problem. thing is that CS STUDENTS are usually a) complete retards b) annoying neckbeards

This is what I'm experiencing in my CS undergrad. I'm currently a Junior and everyone is fucking mentally retarded, interested in making games and cheat on every test and assignment. I know people who literally are Junior level that can't even program in Java or work the stupid IDE's they all love.

I didn't want this feeling. I want to learn cryptography, information theory, category theory, type theory, abstract algebra, etc.

I'm really depressed about my choice of program honestly, even in fun classes like algorithms or compilers, they dumb everything down into oblivion, and none of the students actually care about the topics enough to even read the text.

I feel all alone with no cool buddies to hangout with, all I want is a couple friends who want to try to bullshit about category theory all night and try to parse through the homotopy type theory book. Is that so much to ask? But everyone is fucking retards. God it is so depressing. And then the stamp on my degree that says CS is going to indicate that I'm just as stupid as all of them.

>I want to learn cryptography, information theory, category theory, type theory, abstract algebra, etc.
>I feel all alone with no cool buddies to hangout with, all I want is a couple friends who want to try to bullshit about category theory all night and try to parse through the homotopy type theory book
switch to a pure math degree and do something cs-related for your diploma thesis. you can do your phd in CS (if you still want to do CS at this point)

>I didn't want this feeling. I want to learn cryptography, information theory, category theory, type theory, abstract algebra, etc.
Do you want to know what all of these things have in common? They are math topics.

>And then the stamp on my degree that says CS is going to indicate that I'm just as stupid as all of them.
Switch while you can. I did my undergrad in pure maths and did a cs minor and am infinitely better equipped for whatever theory they throw at the students than they are. If it's too late to switch differentiate yourself by doing research projects. For my master's I went into cs because there's so many interesting things to do, but without doing mathematically oriented projects that go on my resume I would become just another code monkey.

>ABET accredited...

What do I do if I just realized mine isn't? Am I just totally fucked?

MIT, Harvard, and Stanford have the world's best CS programs, and they are all located in America

...

>tfw professor asks on PLs final why right-recursive grammars can't run on top-down parsers

I agree the classes are a joke and yet a CS degree will make you more money than a physics undergrad degree or in many cases, mechanical and electrical engineering bachelor's. Old school engineering degrees are far too theoretical and not practical for employers without investing years of training.

Just because CS is easier or not as prestigious in academia, doesn't mean it's not more valuable in RL.

First internship in CS. BlackBerry. Already makin more than my friends who have their bachelors in electrical engineering.

CD is the only degree where extra hard work actually pays off in the job market.

No matter how much useful physics you understand or read, the fact that I was able to develop an app with over 500k purchases at the age of 17 over rides that haha

Everyone in science has to code. You will end up being the least specialized and most common of workforce, having the hardest time finding unique work if you have no skills apart from computers. I'm doing materials and I'll be developing research on the nanotube circuits and transistors you guys will be sucking the cocks of in about 3 years. Toodloo python autist.

>code 2-3 hours a day
>fuck around in the office, browse reddit and listened to podcasts for the other 5-6.
>make 80,000

feels fucking good to be a meme boys

>we

have a nice life bugman

RIP

IEEE and ACM have a CS curricula recommendations, and they're trying to standarize it. My collage follows it, bretty gud desu

acm.org/education/curricula-recommendations

Can confirm.
I went to ETH in Zurich and I found CS top notch. What I liked the most is that the course was hard, but fair and rewarding.

Hey, thanks a lot for sharing that.
I've been trying to make a list of the things I'd need to study to supplement the courses I get at uni, and that page is actually incredibly helpful.
Thank you.

Other way around really cs is cs anywhere you take it. The entry cost for cs is incredibly low so even poor schools have all you need. How much you do with your knowledge is all the difference.

lol

haha you got a huge cum load

>durr hurr I drop $100k because I enjoy learning

You're the reason why our system is strained to hell

What app did you make?

why are you working for another company rather than making more apps

>jealous you don't make money like we do
This is the reason engineers are hated here.
If you're only studying your discipline for money, you need to leave.

Who says we studied it just for money - simply saying if it's so easy it wouldn't pay lots of money for jobs with a good work life balance, basic economics.

>Why does Veeky Forums hate CS so much?

anti science shills don't want English speakers to know CS.... it's a warfare strategy thing.

>network administration
IT is fine.
>security
There's usually a specific degree for this. If you don't have that, you'll probably have to take an exam to get one or more certifications.

Question: Say I want to be a college lecturer. I have a Bachelors' in CS and my local state university is offering a Masters in Cyber-Security, only the second in-state institution to do so.
Would getting a Masters at least be a foot in the door for lecturing at a community college?

How did you do that?

CS undergrad here. This major is a fucking joke. I have a Math major friend who studies cool stuff like hyperbolic groups and it looks like science of the future for me.
> le persistent data structures
> le advanced algorithms
> le complexity theory

>3 years
Sure thing buddy. Can't wait

What about people specializing in the low-level close-to-the-metal side of things where optimization is actually important and where using your brain actually matters? Are they exempt from the memes?

Lmao you're naive as fuck

That's called computer engineering.

Weird considering im a cs student

>CS less virginal than english majors
I have no idea how this is even possible, the stats are rigged.

My friend changed major from maths to CS. The same professor teaches both majors calculus. He had to do the course again because the same course for math major doesn't cover everything it does for CS major.
He ended up failing the course even though he had passed before as a math major.

Ehh, CE from what I can tell is more PIC programming and micro-controllers. What I assume that user is describing is things to do with writing assemblers, lexical analyzers, ect.

CE work definitely crosses over into that, but any decent CS program will force you to take at least one or two architecture classes, and any decent student should take at least one systems elective (preferably all 3 big ones)

I love counter strike. Why would It be a meme

csfag from a generic state school can confirm

all of the required theory heavy courses (except upper division algorithm) are considered to be a joke by everyone here. in fact you're advised by both the advisors and your classmates to take them if you just want to inflate your gpa/not work too hard.
programming based classes aren't too difficult as long as you can actually code, but they become extremely time consuming
low level systems (compilers/OS/RE/networks) is universally accepted as the least brainlet undergrad track in the major

>RE
What does this stand for?

Reverse engineering

user here
Just finished my brainlet core CS classes. Bouta take a low-level asm class next semester, then a class on OSes, architecture, networks, 2 classes on building digital systems / microcontrollers, then a class on either embedded systems or parallel computing.

Huh, I went to a smaller (but still public/state) school and that low level systems track you speak of was required by all grads, with the exception of RE which was covered a bit in Database and Event-Driven

>There's usually a specific degree for this. If you don't have that, you'll probably have to take an exam to get one or more certifications.
Networked systems security engineer here. This is largely true. Some certifications like the PWK+OSCP are pretty much better than degrees, though really hard.

There are CS students that DONT have to take all of those classes?
Jesus fuck what's wrong with American education?

>2 classes on building digital systems / microcontrollers, then a class on either embedded systems or parallel computing
My program is a bit small so to take the former 2 I'd have to deal with the physics department and the latter two would probably be self-study/special permission hours.
That's not to say we didn't cover parallel stuff in Algorithms and OS.

I only took 1 comp arch class, and didn't take networking. Never did any microcontroller stuff. Besides the 1 comp arch I never did anything related to hardware. Did take OS though. I took 6 algorithms classes (2 general, 1 combinatorial, 1 randomized/approximation, 1 graph(although the 2 general ones included a lot of graph stuff + some of the other topics), 1 geometric/spatial-focused), though. (+ a datastructures one) + a bunch of other theory courses instead.

Assuming he's being legit:
>Job stability
>No ideas for apps
>Blackberry project is more meaningful
>Better pay potentially
>Easier work

Many reasons

The other specializations were in things like cybersecurity, PLs/compilers, "Intelligent Systems" (which is just AI/ML and probably the biggest meme one), Theory, and a few others.

There's lots of crossover, user

I'm currently at 3rd semester of CS and starting to see why people shit on it. What would be the best major to pick to get away from all this unrigorous bullshit? I want to actually learn something in college. My uni offers a math-heavy artificial intelligence major which i'm eying up right now.

It's because most of this board is Americans who go to low-tier schools where Computer Science is basically 'programming'.

>he fell for the "\"CS is a meme\" meme" meme

how respected is your uni?
over here AI is a meme and you're expected to pick up a pure math minor at the very least to even begin to touch it

basically like everyone else said if you aren't doing a math minor or systems intensive courses you're just meming about

undergrad interested in security here
is it true that OSCP + a bachelors is all you need?

What I'm getting from this is that anything that Veeky Forums deems "redeemable" about a CS major is either 1) Not actually part of CS but Comp. Engineering or Electrical Engineering or 2) Not anywhere on the same level as the physics gods out there

Plenty of places will employ you solely on OSCP. Degree won't hurt, and plenty of places require a degree for promotions after a certain point.

Globally it's pretty shit, something like 250th uni in Europe, it's the best I can get without moving to a different country though. I've heard really good things about that faculty though.
>you're expected to pick up a pure math minor at the very least to even begin to touch it
That's pretty much what I expected, so far higher education feels like a waste of time because we have a lot of subjects but don't go deep in any of them, and from what I've seen that's not something that changes in later semesters.

I always see yuros shitting on American CS degrees, but they never share their degree map or anything like that. Hmmm

Bump

I recommend against a specific degree for cyber security. Do IT or CS if you want and get certs on the side.