How could we possibly ever get out of ideology? If we did would it be for the better?

How could we possibly ever get out of ideology? If we did would it be for the better?

But user, the second we believe we are free of ideology is precisely the moment we are deepest in ideology

you can't. ideology, as zizek uses it, is a symptom of living in a mediated society. I guess if you got out of it you'd be an emotionally numb nihilist. doesn't seem like a good place to be in.

That's why I'm questioning whether or not we could leave it. He states that if we were all to have the glasses from They Live it would be the end of ideology but I don't see how.

I imagine a project like that would begin by radically changing the class structure of Western society, as its consumerist nature naturally breeds a dichotomy of producer/consumer. Advertising is at home in our world.

Yes, that's called embracing political skepticism and being a conservative. But Veeky Forums is a marxist board, so that's beyond their simplistic minds.

Impossible and no. Humans need ideology to function, you can't even think without ideology.

You can't escape ideology lol wtf
Read some hegel. Stop believing in escape. The most you can do is acknowledge it

No. If you were locked in a plain white cube for 30 years from the age of 10 you would still have ideology (you'd also be severely mentally-stunted without new sensory data). Thinking at all, implicitly creates ideology. Every view point implicitly creates ideology, even crabs have ideology, though it's more dependent on biology than the conflated constructs we parade.

If you refine "ideology" to things like "political ideology" then possibly, I suppose.

You can also change your ideology as you see fit. E.g. when I'm arguing with Marxists I take a radically conservative viewpoint, when I'm arguing with conservatives I take a Marxist viewpoint.

As much of a Marxist he is, Zizek is quite critical of ideology. I suppose that is a symptom of having the idea of the "proleteriat platform" to critisize from.

>inb4 Marxism isn't pure ideology

Thats not what ideology is with in marxism

nah, not in the sense of the word "ideology" that zizek means. all you're doing is yelling marxist memes at conservatives and vice versa. your ideology is not the memes you choose to spout but the hidden assumptions underlying your thinking that are present no matter which political viewpoint you are pretending to follow. the "unknown knowns" that you never openly state but that are indispensable to your functioning.

Is ideology not necessarily something bad according to Zizek? And why wouldn't Marxism count as pure ideology?

...

>acknowledge it
Does it make any difference?

well, that's basically what self-conscious irony is. what are you're thoughts on irony?

this is the best definition for zizeks usage of the word i have ever seen, thank you.

moving past "ideology" is practically shattering an overton window. It would force people to think for themselves and establish their own truths. Although political ostracization would surely follow.

it's the logic of ideas, man. its the supra-ideal network of material, cultural, and economic factors that determine your interests, worldviews, and tastes in such a way as to transform you into the organ of a larger class body, without your awareness of it. conservatives dont even realize the extent to which they are just the vocal exponents of their own exploitation by the upper class hegemons.

If you can SEE THROUGH the ideology, user, it no longer controls you: you can see it, and decide for yourself whether or not to follow it or do something else.
It's like the difference between a blind person and one who can see: the person who can see will never fall off the edge of the cliff BECAUSE HE CAN SEE IT. When you SEE the ideology, you don't fall for it hook line and sinker.
The problem is becoming aware of your ideological blinders and then seeing past them.

>talkin' ideology in a non-ideology thread
Don't you ever change, you glorious tool!

>le ideology of anti-ideology maymay
Please user! Try to keep up. If you're just going to stick your head in the sand, then you're not helpful to this discussion, save as an example.

I kind of think about getting rid of Ideology what Voltaire said about god:
>If God did not exist, we would have to invent him

If we get rid of the capitalist Ideology today, we'll invent a new one tomorrow. Every society has had Ideology, and if we somehow get rid of ours a new one will just form.

I think the question is not how do we destroy Ideology, but how do we come up with a better Ideology that inspires us to do good rather than bad.

>I think the question is not how do we destroy Ideology, but how do we come up with a better Ideology that inspires us to do good rather than bad.

And right there you've been blinded by ideology. Replacing one set of blindfolds with another is NOT the point: people need to learn how to see reality WITHOUT ideology, just pure reality untarnished by some ulterior opinion on how things ought to be.

>just pure reality untarnished by some ulterior opinion on how things ought to be

That's impossible. What's 'pure reality' to you, you only believe is reality because of YOUR Ideology.

You thinking you know the true reality and I've been blinded by Ideology, is ironically the result of you being blinded by Ideology.

There is no "true way" of seeing things, we are always looking through the lens of ideology.

I agree with >the second we believe we are free of ideology is precisely the moment we are deepest in ideology

Erm, objective reality is pure reality - you know, scientific determinism. That which is. The world/universe of which we are a part.
Now, I know yer gonna scream: but 'scientific determinism' is ideology!!
At which point I must sigh heartily and say: no, it really isn't. Objective, non-predetermined, 'thoughtless' observation of what actually exists in reality is the only tool we have. It's not "impossible" at all: it's fundamental to reality, if we are to apprehend anything at all beyond our own subjective experience.
And we DO understand things beyond our subjective personal ideas: we live in a world where mankind has created computers, and bridges that don't collapse, skyscrapers that don't fall over, and so forth. These things we have built are objective facts; they are real. They could never have merely been 'wished' into existence: an objective reality made their existence possible, not subjective ideals.

tl'dr - without a 'true way' of seeing things, things don't get built. Mathematics is proof of this.

Yes, objective reality is pure reality.
But once you OBSERVE it you do so through the lens of ideology. Once you make a judgement on it, you do so through the lens of ideology.

Obviously, we could both look at a tree and see the reality of "there is a tree there", but what that means to us and what we think about it will be affected by our Ideologies.

Yes.
So the key is non-judgement? Non-interpretation - just pure observation of the facts as they are? And understanding that any valuation must be viewed critically, since every ideology is limited and limiting.
Open mindedness and critical thinking. Hard to find.