Suggest me some well-written, thorough books on The Holocaust

Read it and you'll know.

don't you think it's a little fishy that the "6 million" number appears in books published before world war 2? one starts to get the feeling "6 million" is some kind of jewish meme and not an actual body count

Yes, you dolt.

well, just give me a quick rundown since you're such a holocaust expert

i guess the jews and their pawns, i mean allies, weren't expecting digital search engines when they were constructing their mythology

That's your only evidence? The number "6 million" appears in books before WW2, therefore the Jewish death toll in The Holocaust is false?

die

what's your evidence that is actually happened? pictures of ukranians starved to death by stalin? pictures of pows killed by the allies?

nice answer, really convinced me that i'm right

I plan on reading this + maybe Saul Friedlander's The Years of Extermination

The Nazis wanted rid of the Jews, no other country would take them, war started, German love of managerial efficiency led them to killing centers, no one ever stopped and asked, "Wait, why the fuck are we doing this?"

The Holocaust is a lot weirder than you were taught in school by your bleeding-heart history teacher. Go take your resentment out on her and leave us alone.

They were obviously just clairvoyant. The NYT was reporting the holocaust before the war was over. Despite German code being broken relatively early the Allies never intercepted anything that would hint at a mass extermination happening. No absurd coke orders for their furnaces, etc. I don't think anyone disagrees that there was interring of undesirables in WW2, but the focus on Jews is so undeniably wrongfooted it's only natural to question it.

more like they were going to relocate them to madagascar or even maybe palestine like the zionists wanted, but the allies bombed the rail lines so food got cut off and some of the them starved

The word of literary every single historian that ever lived along with the numerous accounts from actual Holocaust survivors. Do you actually consider each and every one of those accounts to be somehow fabricated?

Why do you wear the mask? Would it hurt if I removed it?

Sources for any of this?

>numerous accounts from actual Holocaust survivors.

oh you mean like Ellie Wiesel? *smirk*

the problem with this indoctrinated rejection of the amorphous series of events referred to as "the Holocaust" is not that it is a universally defensible piece of 20th century human "canon" -- "how could it not have happened? my so-and-so was there! he saw the camps", "...the german orders of Zyklon specifically without irritant, explain this", "thousands of interviews, how could they all be making it up?"-- once specific historical events are so thoroughly agreed upon by the ruling class, so overtly pillaged by commercial interests as to create a cottage industry of fetishizing fact and fiction, so regularly dragged out in the political forum from the 6th grade classroom to the protest signs of quite literally every rally in the western hemisphere, that the deaths of millions of innocents is but a cudgel to be used by the survivors and future perpetrators of violence against mankind

the weirdest thing about studying the Holocaust from our current perspective is realizing that nobody, not even American jews, wanted the Slavic, Hungarian, and Polish Jews

Literally no one cared about these people

Reading that makes me imagine you heaving and wheezing. Is your keyboard flecked with spittle, too?

Cool, now where's your evidence that it never happened?

who said I had any?

it's a crime to deny the Holocaust

Wowowowow

what happened? the allies firebombing innocent civilians in dresden? what? pay no attention to that warcrime! think about all the poor jews, the 6 million!

are you trying to get us thrown in prison? you'll have to do your own research comrade

how many died in dresden in 20 minutes?
how many died over the course of the war?

these are two numbers up for scholarly debate...
what numbers are not up for scholarly debate?
what numbers are illegal to question?

lol, nice way to deflect from the fact that you have no evidence or credible sources for this information.

how could holocaust be real if our eyes arent real

What information? This seems like projection

It's really just a matter of logistics, there is no feasible way that Germany would be able to transport the supposed 6 million to the camps in the first place. Near the end of the war Germany's infrastructure was blown to shit, they were having trouble supply themselves by train let alone transporting thousands of Jews everyday from across Germany. Another thing to take into account is the fact that burning a single human body in an oven the size of the ones in Auschwitz would take 3 hours, making the 15,000 daily death toll (to hit the 2-3 million supposedly gassed at Auschwitz) impossible.

>No "red-pill" bullshit please, though
>

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams you idiot what happened to wtc 7

My evidence is what people that have been studying the Holocaust their entire lives have saying. I think I'll trust them over what some random guy on the internet told me.

Now where's yours?

oh right, they burned all the bodies so there's no evidence! well, that's convenient, well, surely some research today could find all the ashes filled with dna or something right, oh, i guess not, but surely one of those famous jewskin lampshades must have surfaced in the attic of some old nazi grandpa, oh, dna tests have never found one of those either? sad!

It makes perfect sense that Germany would be able to find as many jews as possible in Hungary (est 4-500,000) and ship them to Poland to murder them while losing a war against the existential threat of the Soviet Union

God, these threads are just painful on account of holocaust deniers showing they haven't done any real research on the topic at all.

I don't give a shit about the Jews, either. I just hate morons.

Wow, excellent post my friend.

*have been saying

>STEAL beams

sorry typo

Who gives a fuck if it was one, two or 6 million people who were killed its still a fuck ton. I personally beleive that the vested interests keep trying to increase the number for various reasons but at the very least millions were killed.

What argument are you trying to force me to make?
What question are you begging?
Are you asking me to deny The Holocaust?
What specific event under the umbrella of the Holocaust are you asking me to defend or deny?

You seem really defensive about this

what research have you done, good sir? read elie weasels genre fic in high school? watch a steve spielberg movie?

Mods, just kill it, please. Please.

It was obviously a profound metaphor designed to parallel the slaughter of German youth in the Bf 109 during the final years of the war.

I mean, assuming Eva didn't let Hitler get any, the whole war was basically a giant relationship drama publicity stunt type thing wherein Hitler creates an entire societal atmosphere of warfare and machine fetishism, then kills himself, thus solidifying his place in history as the most sexually frustrated male of all time.

Most importantly, the Nazi military industrial complex also used the discovery of nuclear fission to bring attention to the Volkswagen, which is important because every vehicle designed since then has been retrogressive in the sense that they're actually making humanity stupider, because the car is now the basic unit of life on Earth. (This concept has been explored by Fahrenheit 451 et al.)

The whole thing about the Jews is really just a minor detail. What the Jews really wanted was some shared experience of suffering that wasn't getting their dicks chopped off, so that they could cross-associate it with getting their dicks chopped off. I don't know if six million of them actually died. It's not like you would have noticed the difference either way. Like, in the alternate future, where six million Japs didn't get sent to Pearl, it's not like you would have noticed more socially integrated Japs or whatever, so what's the big deal either way?

These guys both seem to be arguing the same point (but against eachother?)

This thread is confusing and no one is offering primary sources

I read Ordinary Men and it painted the picture that if the War Effort was as incentivized as the Final Solution, they would have made it to Moscow

people that have been studying capitalism their whole lives have tons of evidence that capitalism is the best system. if you're happy being a pleb just washing about in an ocean of ideology cool, but don't make some appeal to authority about "people who made a career out of the holocaust" the turn around and make some angsty marxist or anarchist thread ten minutes later

More than you, apparently.

> Who gives a fuck if it was one, two or 6 million people

This post is illegal in Germany fyi

Not that I am agreeing or disagreeing

>This thread is confusing
it's samefags and paid shills

Defensive? Of course I'm going to be defensive, it's an fuckin' argument, why wouldn't I be? And since you've come up with no viable evidence after all this time, I'm leaving this thread. Have fun bathing in your own ignorance.

Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman

feel free to tell us all about it, people on lit can't read a book without letting the whole world know, so here's your invitation to brag it up!

>mounds of evidence
Please show me some that isn't easily debunked.

>Germany does Holocaust
>Germany makes denying Holocaust illegal

It's like they're just a shit country only good for cars and BDSM.

So you're just here to take issue with discussing books and the ideas in them? Good to know.

Only 3 million were killed in the extermination camps. Camps burnt the bodies on pyres or in large crematoria, not in 'ovens'.

> it's an fuckin' argument,

What is?
Seriously, every response I have for you isn't questioning the Holocaust, it's questioning what you are attacking me for

And now you're gone? Goodbye

Imre Kertesz, Fatelessness

wait, what only three million? now you're telling me the ovens thing was made up fantasy? whose side are you on anyways? you're not one of those "redpill" guys are you?

>/pol/

3 million in extermination camps, 1.4 million by death squads, 700,000 in ghettoes. That's just the Jewish victims.

citation needed

Not really, no.

Oy vey, where did you get these numbers from? It should be much higher than that!

30,000 in extermination camps, 14,000 by death squads, 7,000 in ghettoes. That's just the Jewish victims.

>/pol/

wow the nazis only killed FIFTY THOUSAND people they must have been the good guys.

still waiting on those citations, friendo

still less than Stalin killed, and open Stalinists give talks at universities all the time without riots breaking out, so i guess it depends on if your victims are god's chosen people or just goys

Nah in fact the Nazis didn't kill any Jews at all; they actually gave birth to millions of them instead. It was quite an impressive contribution to Jewish culture.

Of course you are.

Can we at least agree that comparing your opponent to Hitler is an easier rhetorical strategy to win over a populist Western crowd with a High School education, regardless of your actual political affiliation?

Because, even in the chance that stormfags had any valid points, the idea of the Holocaust in the average person's mind represents enough of an Abrahamic Evil that listeners want nothing to do with it (and whatever it is being associated with)?

you are literally worse than hitler

when i hear someone comparing a political opponent as hitler i instantly think that person is an idiot and never take them seriously again

Hitler, the Germans and the Final Solution by Ian Kernshaw is very good.

reeeeeeee

why are all my captchas Gas Stations

>why are all my captchas Gas Stations

because google is using us for free labor to train the computer vision in their self-driving cars

Night, by Elie Weasel.

An literary tour-de-france of intellect and emotion, and a chilling cautionary reminder of the evil of right wing thought. Humanity manifest, proof that we are all human, and that no one has the right to discriminate against another merely because of the colour of his skin or the length of his nose. Exceedingly elegant and stupefyingly beautiful, despite its terrible sadness.

> An literary tour-de-france

hehe infinite jest

This is hilarious. Thank you for doing this because these fucking /pol/lacks that come and shit up Veeky Forums now really depress me.

Ten bucks says if somebody starts a thread about Stalinist bodycounts you will be trying to debunk it all telling us how that shit is overrated and they had to do it since they were under siege by the capitalist world blah blah blah

or i could do one on the palestinians and you'd say they deserved it because they are a race of terrorists, and then swear palestinians don't even exist anyways, they are just confused jordanians who need to go away, etc.

Its not an extensive history of the Holocaust or anything (only part of the book is actually memoir) but Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning is a very good book.

Except why would you start that thread on Veeky Forums you drooling moron? I'm here to talk about books. Please go away.

well obviously i'd put a book on the topic in the op u fucktard, Black Book of Communism perhaps?

>my argument is that I've hypothesized two arguments we haven't had and you lost in both of them. haha! how could you have been so foolish??

ok, so what is your opinion on the palestinian question? subhumans who need to be exterminated? race of terrorists who need to be contained? or just confused jordanians who need to be deported to somewhere else?

I don't see how this is so hard to swallow. Nobody thinks historians are lying when Mao killed 45 million

They should have known they were going to lose their land, be forced into ghettos, deprived of citizenship and opportunities, and ignored by the international community after the Balfour declaration

wait what was this thread about? bash the fash?

Why don't you just go make that thread then? You obviously have no books to contribute here, so why don't you go start another thread about a book you DO want to talk about?

I think the 4 million -> 1 million thing on the Auschwitz memorial rubbed people the wrong way

It's almost like the soviets had some kind of... post-war motive against the national socialists