Where the STEM Jobs Are (and Where They Aren’t)

This. STEM was a lie. You can go to a one month coding bootcamp and make twice as much money doing significantly easier work than if you got a four science or engineering degree. Except everyone here is too butthurt to let go of the STEM superiority delusion, so they blame reports of the shit job market on the individual, saying they weren't above average enough.

No fucking kidding, some tech in my lab is 28 and just got a 55k job

Enjoy the government dole I guess.

Most engineers don't even want to work in engineering. They're only in for the mathematical foundation they get in their BA and connections.
>but engineers don't learn real math
Well, they certainly don't get to the level of physicists or mathematicians, but they know a lot more than people in shit like liberal arts, biology or economics. And enough for a lot of them to start companies, go to finance or reach c-level positions at big corporations.

>I know engineers and math majors who have gone into marketing, general lab work, coding jobs, etc.
Then why not just study to become a marketer, lab technician, or programmer instead of studying something unrelated and then taking your chances finding a job?

>"The number of graduates with technical majors (shown: bachelor, master and Ph.D. degrees awarded..."
This alone is enough to dismiss the article.

Not even the same guy you replied to, but see Companies just won't hire marketing majors, technicians or whatever for roles related to their specific education.
For some reason, employers love engineers. I guess that's because they can do math and are mostly not autistic as mathematicians and physicists (which could also land high paying jobs, but prefer going to academia or teach middle and HS kids).

>Companies just won't hire marketing majors, technicians or whatever for roles related to their specific education.
But that's wrong. Ignoring the separate issue of applying to jobs you're unqualified for and untrained in, if anything STEM majors are at a disadvantage because they have poor social skills.

stemlords btfo

>But that's wrong.
How is that wrong? It's what happens. Engineers are the ones running businesses, not business majors. Engineers are the ones doing marketing, not marketeers. Engineers are the ones handling capital, not economists, accountants or finance majors. And so on.
I do have to say that I live in a third world country, but I don't think America or Europe is any different.

Also, unless you are born with a genius-level interpersonal IQ, social skills will only take you so far. For the vast majority of people, even chads who can pull up any pussy they want, social skills won't enable you to start a software company at Sillicon Valley or land a job at NASA. Technical skills are definitely required. Otherwise, art majors wouldn't be unemployed by default.

>Engineers are the ones handling capital, not economists, accountants or finance majors.

I don't know about the other disciplines but this one is definitely not true. Although I agree with you point that having a STEM degree opens more doors than people think. 'If he's smart enough for STEM he should be smart enough for this job' is a thought process that employers often go through. Especially for positions where a great deal is learned on the job and a degree doesn't really prepare for. It doesn't work like that for every field of course, there are plenty of non-STEM jobs which actually require a degree in said field to perform, like accounting or psychology.

>"""high quality candidate"""
ya top 25% or better pretty much guarantees you a job.... moving on... in your picture except life sciences..

>3 in 4 chance of being unemployable
>STEM IS THE BEST!!!!111!!1111one
What did he mean by this?

There is nothing wrong with this. I graduated as a mechanical engineer and I am not joking when I say that ~75% of my class should not have been given a degree. Modern universities push retards through with C's all the time. Exam averages were 40-60% in pretty much every class, and people thought I was a genius for scoring A's and B's, even though I only studied ~40 hours a week

The problem for most STEM majors is they don't want to work hard jobs. I have a chemistry degree and I got a job in manufacturing. I work 60-70 hours a week at 25/hr.

Look for industry jobs; semiconductors, food processing, oil and gas etc

tl;dr don't be a fucking pussy

>just work 70 hours a week bro
yeah, no

CS

MASTER

RACE

get fucked Veeky Forums

Engineers absolutely BTFO.
Glad I'm doing CS.

>too late to change my major
i'm honestly considering dropping out, going back to a CC, and applying to a state school for CS

there is NO WORK for EE. AT ALL.

12 hour shifts, so only 5 or 6 days a week. But that's all voluntary over time. Regular schedule is 3 or 4 days on with 4 and 3 days off.

But whatever dude, 9-5 pipette bitch is cool too.

>A good STEM degree can get you any undergraduate job
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
delusional engineer at it again

That's because the classes fucking blow absolute wiener. I personally tested out of the programming classes but I see the programming labs they post and they give me brain cancer. I can't speak for or against this next point but a lot of the students I talk to who are taking the classes say the profs don't teach the language at all but only go over the application and memory aspect of it.

Like I've always said:

ALWAYS do the opposite of what Veeky Forums says.
Glad you guys are gonna end up on the streets. Enjoy.

Are you fucking kidding me right now? You might just be bad with interviews or your engineering skills suck desu. EE has jobs out of the ass dude.

AHAHAHAHAHA
Absolutely delusional, my man. You only find work if you go to a top five. I went to UCSD, and even though I got a 3.78 with two internships, I didn't find work.

I work at Best Buy, at the moment.

you do realize ee jobs have literally negative growth right

Given the facts that CS is also heavily shilled by the government programs bringing niggers and women into the field means in 10-15 years CS will be in the same situation and CS majors will earn pennies

engineering will be even worse by then, so we still win lmao

It's possible to self learn CS?
t. Engineer

friend to interviewer here
you can self-teach CS, but nobody, and I mean nobody will consider you if you don't have a CS degree

sorry bud

nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/choosing-a-college-major.html
>Interpretive dance may not be in demand, but the competencies that liberal arts majors emphasize - writing, synthesis, problem solving - are sought after by employers.
you can self-teach everything, but you have way smaller chances of being employed without a diplomma

>he thinks companies give a shit about engineering graduates when they have tons of CS grads coming their way
>at career fairs, companies literally have to specify that they ONLY want CS majors
Lmao @ your lives, engies.

>he fell for the "you don't need a computer science or comp eng degree for a software engineer position" meme

>“Once C.E.O.s see liberal arts graduates in action,” Mr. Anders said, “they come aboard to the idea that they need more of them.”
holy fuck my sides, are they trying to make themselves feel better or what?

bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm
What countries are you guys in? Electrical Engineers get really good jobs practically the day following graduation. You can literally work for a place like Home Depot and be making $45/hour at least, I say this because my bud is doing exactly that.
And for specifically, that sounds extremely odd. Maybe get some interview practice under your belt and do some projects (such as designing and making some electronics or some shit), how long have you been without an engineering job?

>how long have you been without an engineering job?
since spring 2016
nearly 90% of my graduating class didn't get a job in engineering, either. fun little fact.

Marketing is a pretty sweet gig from what I've heard.

meant for

These are both correct, largely.

These pushes are motivated by desire to drive down wages and can and will happen to any field that comes after programming. The only answer is for Gen Y and Gen Z to take whatever money they can get from whatever jobs they can score, and start preparing for entrepreneurship.

Rather than waiting, for example, for anti-senescence tech to become a thing, you can start a company of your own that will pursue it. Potential profits are huge. Same goes for any field where creativity and risk is discarded in favor of safe profits.

You can definitely work as a software engineer without a computer science degree.

What isn't so straightforward is being a software engineer in a specialized project area without expertise in said project area. As a 21-year-old new graduate, I joined such a specialized team (security) staffed by people with a decade+ each of industry experience. Each of these individuals also happened to not have computer science degree (math was the most common degree), and you could tell due to their lack of familiarity with now-fundamental aspects of security, applied cryptography, and systems design--all things most easily picked up from a well-rounded CS program.

I was ultimately promoted (within a year) beyond the level of my team members literally only because my familiarity with computer science fundamentals gave me more proficiency in my day-to-day work.

>nearly 90% of my graduating class didn't get a job in engineering, either. fun little fact.
I'm gonna need some sources or proof to believe this. This is nearly unbelievable. Just glancing at some readily available numbers from multiple different sources be it from the Fed. or State shows that there's at least about eight million STEM jobs. While not all of these are engineering jobs, obviously, engineering is pretty big and has a million jobs or so I'd guess and having an engineering degree would still leave you open to other STEM fields.

Or you could just move outside the US and have another 10-15 years of good pay.

That's of course an option but lots of people naturally prefer to stay in their homeland if they can.

Not him, but any UC that isn't UCLA or UCB is shit for engineering, so it's no surprise. I know people who went to UCR and literally all of their engineering class save for like two people, didn't find a job. School rank is extremely important for engineering.

I did ME and had the same experience. Only the handful of women in the class, who ironically were hated by everyone for playing politics inside of every group project, ended up getting jobs. Everyone else was left to get fucked.

This

It's more common than you think and I can vouch for him.
I went to csu northridge though so I wasn't expecting a job anyway.

>tfw sophomore in EE and reading this thread
So, I have to be a sneaky, back-stabbing cunt, then?

Switch out, now. Trust me.

why are engineers such shit writers? They like to make fun of humanities majors for being bad at math but I swear half of them don't know the difference between "to" and "too". And when I read their code comments every other word is misspelled.

Unironically yes. They were extremely good at what they did, and that was being manipulative.

>CS grads being treated like gods here
>on /g/ they're pissed on and laughed at

/g/ is just coping with the fact that they'll never get software engie jobs without a CS degree

>Get a wildlife degree
>5 years later still doing seasonal work
>Work my ass off to get great references and even awards from all my bosses
>Still no permanent job

It sucks

>CS grads being treated like gods here
[by whom?]

pretty much, /g/ has a large NEET population that only know C and are assmad jealous of high-paying web dev jobs

Actually this.

serious question. do coding bootcamps actually get you in the door for jobs? I'm studying chemE right now, getting a minor in software eng but I've always been concerned that if say i did try to go into the CS field (ChemE is love but it ain't got shit for jobs right now), everyone would turn me away for not having a full bachelors.

>do coding bootcamps actually get you in the door for jobs?
No
>I'm studying chemE right now, getting a minor in software eng but I've always been concerned that if say i did try to go into the CS field (ChemE is love but it ain't got shit for jobs right now), everyone would turn me away for not having a full bachelors.
and they will.
Funny, I'm in the exact same boat, studying ChemEng at CSU Long Beach. I can say with certainty that you won't break into the CS field anytime soon. There is simply no reason to choose you over an actual CS grad. Don't believe the /g/ memes about just making good projects and whatnot. They care about that, but first and foremost, they care about that little CS degree.
Sorry, man.

>problematic
Leave and never come back.

ignore this faggot
I got a job in software and I did Civil
just don't be a pajeet. it's gonna be rough but it's doable. my GPA was a 3.2, for reference.

What went wrong, Veeky Forums?

Where did all the jobs go?

>What went wrong, Veeky Forums?
The vast shilling for engineering majors.

>nobody, and I mean nobody will consider you if you don't have a CS degree

>I got a job in software and I did Civil
Walk us through how you did it, step by step. A-asking for a friend.

sorry but it's true. go ahead and give it a try so you can get laughed at.
retard

coding bootcamps are a scam that teach you the syntax of the flavor-of-the-month js framework and that's it. they don't teach you anything on algorithm/database/systems design, data structures, algorithmic complexity, all things you need to be a sound developer. you'll be eligible for entry tier marketing jobs and that's it. they're also already starting to close because people are catching on to how much of a joke they are. when i'm looking to interview developers, even a junior position, any resume with "bootcamp" on it goes into the trash because more often than not they can't code for shit and i dont have time for hand-holding.

Yeah, hi. I'm an S6 officer in an Army unit and reservists from my command, and those who get out afterwards get all kinds of jobs in software without ever having been debtcucks.

That's one example on the private side. But you're a retard if you think anyone cares about your degree more than a few years out.

>feelsbadman
all i ever wanted to do was be a chemist. but then I found out how hard it is to actually make it as a chemist. So i decided i'd become the next best thing and become a chemE bachelor. I figured I'd be happy with that and if I really wanted to, I go pursue a pure chem PhD afterwards. I spend countless moneis and time going for a ChemE to only find out in my junior year that chemE won't give me a job, and if it does, it will be something shitty like a fucking paper and timber manufacturing facility all the way out in the middle of bum fuck no where redneck vill. If i switch to CS major now, it will add like 2 1/2 more years of studying, pushing me to like 6 1/2 years.

how?

youtube.com/watch?v=DhED40jPsHc

youtube.com/watch?v=ADwq34oyXkY
>Omar Carmona5 months ago
>RelearnMath Do you work as an electrical engineer?

>Beyond Engineering5 months ago
>Omar Carmona Yes sir.

>Omar Carmona5 months ago
>RelearnMath What do you do?

>Beyond Engineering5 months ago
>Omar Carmona hmmmm...basically 50 percent hardware and 50 percent software development for RF related devices.

>Beyond Engineering5 months ago
>It's interesting that you bring up Medtronic...Several people that I graduated with currently work there...the degrees break down like this...20 percent mechanical Engineers, 30 percent Software/Comp Sci, and 50 percent Electrical. Biomedical is in a way a subfield of Electrical, so if you don't want to do full on Biomedical to increase your range of opportunities, I would suggest Electrical.

I spent 4.5 years fucking around at a CC, doing stupid shit like 5 unit semesters before finally transferring, and I'm gonna take 3 years to finish up ChemEng. I also can't switch my major to Comp Sci, unless I were to go back to a JC and apply to another state school for comp sci.

Be glad you're not me.

/g/ is pissed off that all the competition drives down wages to what no self-respecting programmer should accept.
What we're discussing is that the grads at least have jobs in the first place. The reality is that the bar has been dropped down to the fucking ground---you have to stop giving a shit about integrity and focus on survival.

You can be a chemist---as a business owner. You have to raise capital and do your studying on the side.

Sure, creating a startup is hard---but you won't cuck yourself to incompetent suits who care about literally nothing but profit, and have no real mind for innovation. That's just the reality of this economy we've inherited.

>-but you won't cuck yourself to incompetent suits who care about literally nothing but profit
lel yes you will. they'll just be wearing turtleneck sweaters, have beards, and speaking with more bullshit language than usual.

I don't catch your drift.

>self-respecting programmer
CONTRADICTION. KERNEL PANIC.

what the hell is a wildlife degree?

if there's any anons on here recruiting a Biochemistry graduate in the UK, look no further.
I'm your man ;)

Steve Jobs wore a turtleneck sweater, and had a beard. Also VCs.

go to graduate school you stupid fuck, the market is oversaturated for literally ANYTHING besides babby's first field work.

If you don't care about being in Bumblefuck, South Dakota counting bees for the rest of your life, then keep going. If you want an adult job, you need more school famalam

Those are all programming jobs, most of which don't require a CS degree.

>like a fucking paper and timber manufacturing facility all the way out in the middle of bum fuck no where redneck vill
Low cost of living + engineering salary. Nigga you could be buying a house in 5 years

That's what I thought he meant, but that's dumb. If you own the startup, you're the Steve Jobs, if you want to be. If you have capital, then you don't need the venture capitalists, at least not to the extent that you must fork over your company to them.

my sides

2nd year Physics major\CS minor here. How differently do employers look at CS minors as opposed to majors?
I seriously doubt I'll be accepted into a physics masters program, let alone a job.

...

I mean, that's fucking good.

What can I do with Biochemistry? Is it worth doing it?

You can clean my boots