Can Veeky Forums be as toxic as other boards...

it was toxic in discourse but not content. Feels like the latter is gaining toxicity as well

Almost none of my reading choices come from Veeky Forums recommendations. There's a fairly standard core of Veeky Forums approved books, and I think rightly so given how good and/or influential so many of them are, but it comes down to the individual to strike out on his own, try something new, draw attention to it here, and maybe even pick up a few others interested in reading the same thing.

I think that's why nyrb is so popular here recently, as they offer a ton of books which are almost all off the beaten path, and typically quite good; the whole publisher is a springboard for people who want to try something besides Melville et al., but may not be sure where to turn.

The problem of course is people who refuse to try stuff on their own. I love the Greeks/Romans and resent people who "finish" the Greek chart and then ask "what next," because part of "the Greeks" is getting more comfortable peeking into darker corners, checking out new stuff for yourself, and learning how to approach it and understand it. The same goes for fiction; I don't understand how people can read a novel, ignore the related works almost always mentioned in the intro, and come here to ask "what should I read next?"

In short I think Veeky Forums is less a literature board and more a hangout board for people who like literature. I love it and come here every day, but it's rare that it challenges me, and honestly when it does I'm usually not up for it; I enjoy the shitposting and come here to take a break from my reading.

Veeky Forums would be almost perfect if the philosophags and zizek fanbois would all move to fucking /x/ and stay there.

if i see one more "does existence precede essence?" thread i am going to kill someone.

It's always the same people whining about the level of discourse who aren't making anything interesting either.

So Veeky Forums sucks right? Link me to your amazing threads that you started. Guaranteed it's some pleb shit. Know how I know? Because only pseuds get irritated by the so called "discourse" here.

well yeah I fucking hate nigger and spics and muslims but you don't see make shitposting threads on here whining about how many fucking niggers spics and muslims I have to see every day, because im not a faggot like you OP, always whining like a bitch, maybe if all you whiners make your own decent threads we would have so many OP shitposts. (like this one sage)

Racism rears its head because of political correctness. It's a knee-jerk reaction.

MJ and Morgan Freeman had the right idea youtube.com/watch?v=I3cGfrExozQ

Jews are in top positions, Jewish Question is not to be discussed in any fashion -> it is only discussed in hatred.

It's change (((WE))) can believe in.

>no racism
That's where you're wrong, kiddo.

>it is only discussed in hatred.

That's not true, there are plenty of non hatred discussions of Jews, those people are still ostracized. The hatred is also funny so why not?

It is what you make it.

Report people for being off topic more often. I mean, there's a reason that report button is there.

Shitposting is shitposting and only belongs on /b/.

you don't want discussion of race at all, or you don't want people to say things you disagree with?

Reddit has been integrating in the last 3 years. Not memeing.

I'm pretty sure reporting is not the solution. Maybe a good advice, but only that.

you should be grateful there's so much racism and other /pol/ shit on this board; it is a repellent for the normie pleb scum

politics should stay out of Veeky Forums
the problem is.. you can't seprate literature and politics

Agreed. Summer 2014 was probably the final nail in the coffin for this place. It's a shame because I've been browsing this site since 2008 yet only migrated from /b/ to other boards in 2012 so I never got to see every other board in their golden age.

I do sincerely hope that everyone who found this place directly from Reddit after 2015 reconsiders overstaying their welcome here, though. Those fuckers can kindly fuck off and all of the outcasts who would've normally found this place through natural circumstances can stay. Not that I'm chalking this place down to a normalfag/social pariah dichotomy, but some of these people genuinely don't belong here.

Either that, or we can just remove (You)s and this place improves tenfold overnight, with none of the redditors even having to leave.

this

>I've been around here for 5 years and on /b/ for several before that
hello redd'it spawn, its always been that fucking bad. can you please fuck off with your revisionist view of past board culture

why do you think this place used to be worse? what about it has changed?
ive been visiting this board off and on since about 2015, so I dont really see the difference.

>woah those straight white males on Veeky Forums are doing a thoughtcrime!1! their hatefacts hurts my feelings mommy!! the whole world should be one big politically correct safespace for mentally ill lgbt marxists! go the bad men go away mommy!

>ha ha look at the stupid left wing they're just upset that we want to literally commit multiple genocides and destroy the planet what a bunch of babies

>ITS A GENOCIDE!!111
>HOW DARE YOU PRIORITIZE YOUR OWN WELL BEING OVER AFRICANS WITH AN IQ OF 60
>DISGUSTING!

I entered this thread to make this exact post. I think Veeky Forums charts, western canon and advices like "start with the Greeks" are all tons of shit. They really make me think the average user of this board is an insecure 20 years old guy who has never read anything except some YA novels and needs instructions on how to discover the mystical world of Literature. I know the first thought you have is "well, they're just looking for suggestions, why not helping them?". And if you put it like that it seems like a generous, kind and smiley offer to help for an innocent and willful guy. I'm sorry, but it's not. When I was young there was nobody there to help me and address me through the literary universe. And yet I've read. I went to the library and I bought books that randomly inspired me -- it could be for a thousand reasons. I never ever saw a fucking chart or a ridiculous Bloom's canon and yet I got to read Greek lyricists, Aeschylus, Aristotle, Lucretius, Catullus, Lucanus, Petronius, Augustine, Joyce, Kerouac, Miller, Bulgakov, Pavese, Houellebecq and a shit-ton of poets. Why? Because they interested me. The cover, the synopsis, the author's life, a quotation found somewhere, who knows what else. That's how you LEARN. Following your own path, that can be infinitely multiforme. Stimulating your curiosiy. And that's how it has been done for centuries. Charts and fucking "start with..." recommendations are just memes. You know, memes? Internet gave us the memes, they're funny and make us laugh. But they do not make us intelligent. Because associating yourself with the mass does not make you intelligent. Believing in some alleged order or hierarchy among the literary works is just retarded and a sign of misunderstanding of the world itself. Nothing works like that. Everything has something to offer, everything is precious on its own, everything occupies a place: it's up to you to choose what to explore and internalize.

>thinks he's anti establishment
>holds only politically correct establishment approved opinions
>supports everything the establishment stands for
>loves censorship, hates free speech and is for shutting down anything resembling independent non marxist thought because its literally hitler! and it's [the current year]

just leftist things, everyone

>no racism
Would you really want to be in a place that conforms to what makes you feel safe? Also there are plenty of good book suggestions. Stop being a pussy, the bad actions of blacks and muslims require constant criticism outside of mainstream sources

if you want to read half way decent books you're going to need to read a lot of racism and all kinds of depraved things.

if you want to avoid that, read YA and fuck off.

I've been here since 2011 when Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea and Stoner got big. Its the same shit, just more Art of the Deal threads, and way less tripfaggots

>>ha ha look at the stupid right wing they're just upset that we want to literally commit white genocide and turn the planet into an LGBTQIA positive sharia fursuit pizzagate pedo dungeon!

Most of the racism is from /pol/ tourists, and most of the sexism is from /r9k/ tourists (lot of overlap between these two groups btw). Dwelling in an echo chamber gets boring, apparently.

That said, if you can't see these people for the clowns they are and just brush them off... you might be a little mentally weak.

>implying /tv/ ever had any sort of discussion
Remember the hundreds of daily threads that all reached bump limit from Abatap and Mileyfag? The reason we have a site-wide captcha?

The two boards who used to be the better ones, I mean Veeky Forums and /mu/, achieved this through elitism. The influx of people perhaps from reddit, but also from other parts of the web, who claim that all discussion here should be civil and respectful, are actually ruining this board. The boards are good as long as a tyranny is exerced by the most well-read and cultured people unto the others, so that they stay in line and stop spouting opinions and discussing garbage all the time. This is what happened on /mu/, thanks to a select crew of good people as well as a few tripfags (mostly CLT irrc), and it also used to happen here. What we need to do is bring back the violent methods which made our boards good : we ought to show people the way out everytime they say something which shows they don't belong here. See a YA thread? Don't ignore it : join and tell people to fuck off. See people talking shit about great authors or complaining about "starting with the greeks"? Ridicule them. Only through ridicule and intimidation does a board become good ; it frightens people into thinking before posting.

>Veeky Forums is less a literature board and more a hangout board for people who like literature
agreed, I only come here for the social aspect myself

Veeky Forums is probably the most faggot, nigger, women and all the other freaks-friendly board on Veeky Forums. Even some of the mods are disgusting whores. If you can't handle even that, then stop using internet you idiot.

>thinks they're anti establishment, despite the fact that conservatism revolves around the defense of old power structures
>thinks leftism is somehow politically correct, despite every incumbent political party being pro-capitalism
>constantly attacks Marx, will never criticize the wealthy
>thinks material social progress is a ridiculous idea
>has a victim complex framing any opposition to their ideas as "censorship"

Holy shit you are so right. I'm tired of this idea that we should be civil and respectful on fucking Veeky Forums. Not that I'm trying to be edgy but the reddit form of discussion has really inhabited certain boards.

Also in the case of /mu/, they've been through an annoying phase to anti-elitism, where it's now seen as "cool" to praise top 40 music. Being "indie" became hideously uncool among the indie crowd itself, so now you'll always see them praising mainstream and accessible music as the best.

The toxicity of our city, OF OUR CITY

This so much. I used to get ridiculed on /mu/ for listening to anything that's not /mu/core and has more than some 5000 listeners on lastfm.

Veeky Forums is the most left wing board on Veeky Forums, so if you think its bad here I can't imagine what you think of the other boards

>Veeky Forums is the most left wing board on Veeky Forums
Surely that's /lgbt/?

Once you used to feel inferior for posting here without reading the greeks. What happened?

Veeky Forums was best board for the most creative, withering put-downs. Especially those where the transgresser was too stupid/poorly read to understand what was going on.

The real reason I hate the left is because leftism is nothing but the tyranny of the weak. Leftists hate greatness and beauty, they are vindictive and hate the White man for its achievements. I refuse to bow down before the weak and kow tow before my shrieking, pathetic inferiors. I choose strenght, I choose Honor.

No one cares, faggot.

I've heard /lgbt/ are basically self-hating gay anons advocating fascism.

If they were weak, they would not have the power to install tyranny.

This board went to shit as soon as the Marxists took over

Veeky Forums is mostly straight marxists, whereas /lgbt/ are moreso rather centrist folks who are gay/trans. though i'm sure they would be on the side of the commies if shit hit the fan

>not sure if dumb enough to confuse marxist crit with marxism
>could just be dumb enough to believe people who never read marx understand marx and believe in self identification

>they are vindictive and hate the White man for its achievements
Replace "white man" with "jew" and you've got /pol/. You know I'm right. horseshoe.jpeg

That's why they dispersed the weak/strong dichotomy and that's why the cultural domination of the left would never be possible until (yeah, I know) postmodernism.

>Almost none of my reading choices come from Veeky Forums recommendations.

Never thought about it before, but this is true for me too. The only book I've read based on a Veeky Forums recommendation was Stoner, a few years back when there were whole threads here with everyone loving it. I hated the book and it made me wonder why that was the book that was being discussed when there are other writers who did the same kind of thing, but better (e.g. Yates, Ford, Cheever).

I think I keep coming back simply because it's the fastest-moving book discussion online. Most book forums have threads that move so slowly there's stuff from years ago on the front page.

I did see a lot of anti-Muslim and pro-guns-for-self-defense stuff there after Orlando, so I guess it would make sense if they were libertarians/"Log Cabin Republicans" to some extent while still hating Mike Pence et al.

the marxists are a vocal minority of entryists from reddit, /lgbt/ and /leftypol/. Veeky Forums is a board dedicated to the beauty of western culture, why would we side with the marxists who seek to destroy it?

They're literally the same thing. Same slave morality, same delusional ambitions

Elitism is actually one of the biggest reasons why the interests boards are generally shit though. Not because the elitism itself is necessarily bad, but mostly because the users can't live up to it.

You're just changing the image of the board, not the underlying discussion. So instead of a thread on YA, you get a thread on a Classic, but it's still just as inane and meme filled of a thread. The userbase is always the biggest problem and it will never change. You just have to face that most boards of Veeky Forums are filled with literal teens and early 20 something who are more or less at the entry stage of said interested, so you aren't going to get much knowledgeable or nuanced discussion.

Because "marxists who seek to destroy it" has always been a lie; the Marxist project is to return the fruits of that culture to the average person. Nothing kills culture, "western" or otherwise, faster than when it's ruthlessly commodified for profit.

what shit, the nearly constant multiple catholic/bible threads should suggest otherwise, not to mention the genuine enthusiasm european conservatism gets and the hostility that mainline marxists get.

if thats true then why do marxists advocate for mass immigration and multiculutralism? their aim is to destroy the dominant culture and replace it

/mu/ has absolutely god-awful taste in music, though.

>why do marxists advocate for ... multiculutralism (sic)

Because culture and race are irrelevant before class? And in that regard, immigration is irrelevant. I know that and I think Marxism is a laughable failed experiment.

The most awful part of the /pol/ dispersion is that you can tell they dont read to understand the enemy, they just label them SJW and walk away.

Also it's hardly universal that they do; the immigration thing in particular has been pushed hardest by megacorps who want cheap labour (can't complain about sub-minimum wage if you're scared of being deported). Zizek in particular criticized the whole "open borders and open markets" idea pretty hard.

>implying the enemies read to understand themselves unless you count Huffington Post

>Almost none of my reading choices come from Veeky Forums recommendations

I don't believe people actually come here for recommendations in the first place. The only books that are really mentioned here are books basically everyone knows from some of the biggest figures in literature. Sure, some occasional obscure stuff get's mentioned, but not often.

This thread has turned pathetic and disgusting after 40 posts. I guess this the rule on Veeky Forums. Every thread fucking sucks after 40-50 posts. I hate you all.

See you tomorrow

Thats not only untrue, it completely reverses the /pol/ narrative of academia being dominated by the enemy.

Please stay triggered, pathetic woman

>he thinks he doesn't look dumb when he clearly doesn't read
just so you know, you're obviously as retarded as a self identifying marxist who has not read marx. both of you should be laughed at for your illiteracy.
because they haven't read marx. you're placing faith in their understanding of marx, which is about as sound as placing faith in a tumblrqueer lesbian who has never fucked anything other than men and thinks dying her hair blue changed her sexuality/gender. the aim of marxists is to destroy the existing class order, and that does not lend to multiculturalism at all. it wants to destroy all differences of culture, not celebrate them. you might as well say marxism advocates for the capitalist class' right.

because it was built on such a fantastic foundation

if you are for multiculturalism, if you believe in marxism, deny factual race science or think gays/transgenders aren't mentally ill, you are a fucking SJW, no worming out of it, that's what you are. fuck you and your PC bitch establishment approved SJW opinions.

I'm fucking your mothers right now. One in the vagina, one in the ass, one in the mouth.

The fact that you thought anywhere on Veeky Forums, of all fucking places, could be your "safe space" was your first mistake.

You sound more like the type who'd jerk off to my dad fucking my mother 2bh

And you sound like a virtual fuck!

Damn, roasted. Truly scathing.

;)

>.gif

Veeky Forums is the internet cesspool, home to the baddest and most UnPc edgetrolls and fash gamers on cyberspace. This is not a safe space, this is the Danger Zone. No place for whiners here. Watch out for truthbombs and redpills.

...

Damn you're a cool ironic guy, I wish I was your friend so I could smack you across your whore mouth when you start talking shit like that

Wrongthink! Wrongthink! Oy Vey Shuttitdown! the Goyim know IT'S [The Current Year] and you are A FUCKING WHITE MALE! btw I sexually identify as an attack helicopter

Did you even read post? He considers Marxism a 'laughably failed experiment'.

It never happened to me, but if it had, I would have read them.

False. Perhaps you're too new to have witnessed it. People on /mu/ got ridiculed for posting about Tchaikovsky in classical threads, so they started listening to good music. The knowledgeable posters would discuss this good music, other people who didn't know shit would try to jump in and spout their opinion, then get put down ; after a while, either they'd leave or try to learn so that they could fight back. Once they'd have learned they realize what good music and good taste are, so they'd stop saying shit either way.

I'm not here to argue about whether or not elitism is a good thing, I'm here to state a fact, a goal, and ask for the means. We already have this pasta about plebs which keeps popping up every few days or so ; but we need more, and it must be applied to every thread.

We need to produce a new, less meme-tier list of recommended readings, excluding all things base and common, and post it with a "get the fuck out" on every thread asking recs.

We need to spam YA threads or anyone discussing it with insults.

We need to tell every single person discussing plebeian works to read better ; and give them the list I mentioned.

Most of all, we need to stop being "civic".

>think Veeky Forums charts, western canon and advices like "start with the Greeks" are all tons of shit. They really make me think the average user of this board is an insecure 20 years old guy who has never read anything except some YA novels and needs instructions on how to discover the mystical world of Literature.
This is a very different sentiment than the one you're replying to.

Nice b8

>We need to spam YA threads or anyone discussing it with insults.
Wrong, that just makes people post more YA threads cause they're controversial and get (you)s.

its pretty bad here. people here are smart enough to convince someone they are wrong, even though they probably arent

Are you sure? It's a childish thing they only dare to share because of the anonymity of Veeky Forums, --- they know they'd get bullied for it IRL, and thus their reason for using Veeky Forums is to have a "safe space" to partake in their guilty pleasure ; if we remove the safe space aspect of Veeky Forums, nothing will draw them here anymore.

I hate reddit so goddamn much

This board is turning into reddit and, especially with summer coming, will be dead before long if we don't do anything.