Why dont we like IJ anymore?

Because memes get stale.

Not necessarily. I've read it, found it ALRIGHT, and I'm more of a "here's how we can kill all jews"

We never liked infinite jest
it was all in jest

I like it and I'm right-wing (as was DFW, deep down)

Please stop talking about this novel. It's so unworthy of the attention it receives.

why bother reading someone who couldn't even live with himself. the only sincere moment in the life of David Foster wallace was when he kicked away the chair. the rest of his life was a lie, the new sincerity was a joke whose punchline was the creaking of a leather belt around the rafter.his literary career was a menagerie of self help lies told to keep his depression at bay. the audience pussy and drugs were the ghosts at that feast of hypocrisy. the depression was warranted because behind all the gimmicks and the self awareness and the bandannas was no discernible talent

WE

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across theUSAand your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

Because he's the only one of the authors seen as intelligent challenging that wrote a novel easy enough for them to understand more than 20% of, and they feel smart using his name in conversation, despite (usually) missing the point entirely. Hand them Ulysses, GR, JR, McElroy, or Gass and watch them call it pretentious without understanding what that word actually means or seeing the irony in using it at all while pretending to have some kind of deep connection with the 12 paragraphs of Infinite Jest they comprehend.

*Intelligent and challenging - shit.

I don't go out much, but is comprehension really a barrier for this apparently large group of posers you have in mind? If you're past like 19 I don't see how that could be an issue.

Judging by your post. . .

It is good but the people who obsess over it is the kind of people who hasn't read that much.

We, as Veeky Forumsizens of the pre-/fitlit/ era, cannot obsess over a book that only normies brag about.

off yourself

Well, considering something like Blood Meridian is too difficult for half of reddit, I would Yes, yes it is.

While this is true, DFW was still one of the last if not the last author to even attempt writing on the level of those guys even if he wasn't as good or creative as them and plebbed things up to some extent beyond that out of a crowd-pleasing impulse. He's not the best by any means but for all his flaws he still serves as a decent gateway to high modernist and postmodern lit if you read him without stopping at him and go back to the movements/authors that informed his style.

I L-like it... user

You don't have to tell me, DFW is one of my all time favorites, and led me to most of the greatest novels I've ever read.

>wardine be cry

What did he mean by this?

honestly i think a lot of it boils down to the fact that infinite jest is now starting to get associated with literary-type bros alla the mountain goats etc and the worst thing you can be in a young twenty something's mind is stereotypical.

the idea of like 'oh you like the things stereotypical of people who are like you and are thusly invalid' is a really strong stream in an insecure young adults mind

I still love it

Sup boys, anyone wanna read a blog post about IJ?

synthesis.blog/2017/04/07/the-mask-of-social-media/

Talks about comparisons between social media / video-telephony. Lemme know what you think.

I do

No...
It's not not possible to be this wrong on accident.

It became too popular (here, anyway). Its just a contrarian reaction to that.

This

It's a pretty alright and entertaining book, not IMO anywhere touching on the greatest classics and not as good as the better more renowned books of the 20th century (like the Ulysses and GR so memed on this board), but probably'll be remembered nonetheless as a worthy contender to them.

it was never good, just pretentious thesaurus.com shit

Its gotten to the point where anyone who uses the word "pretentious" needs to be ignored. It's such a lazy criticism that requires no thought or backing.

>many people read good book
>book naturally receives praise
>newfags and people that haven't read it reject it and denigrate it
>people that don't get it see the mixed opinions and feel comfortable heaping their criticisms onto it as well
>becomes hip not to like it
it'll be esteemed again soon

10/10 post

I have come to page 80, and I unironically like it, senpai.

Because it's unironically good. It's easy to tell who hadn't read it around here when they post their worthless criticisms (but it's pretentious!). The truth is that Veeky Forums is terrified of big books. They meme Camus because you can read it in an afternoon, and it requires little participation from the reader.

As a user of Veeky Forums, I can confirm that I'm hesitant to read a large book. However, I will still put in the effort to finish it and I don't criticism a book unless if I've read it (honest).

You're one of the good ones, then. Don't be afraid, user, convince yourself that you'll be spending that time reading anyway, so what's the difference? The most rewarding reads of my life were the dense tomes that took a lot of effort and work on my part to finish.

Big books are cash desu. The start of a big book is daunting, and I love it baka.

t-thanks

new Veeky Forums is a shitting ground for /pol/ and the old users have already read it

which ones?

Infinite Jest was the first of the maximalist novels I read, and led me, directly or by proxy, to Pynchon, Gaddis, Barth, Gass, McElroy, DeLillo, and Vollmann. I've branched out from those guys too, either by looking at their influences, or authors they are compared to. Also, just asking people with similar taste.

>book naturally receives praise

IJ had a massive marketing campaign.

You should also be skeptical of critics, especially magazine critics. They're all in bed with the publishing industry. It's in their best interests that novels be worth buying.

Also a lot of critics said IJ was shit. If anyone on Veeky Forums said IJ was good, you can credit our lively pseud community.

I thought it was good

The praise it receives on Veeky Forums is natural. More than half of the people on this board weren't alive (still less were aware of the book) when it came out.
>1996 was 21 years ago

>synthesis.blog/2017/04/07/the-mask-of-social-media/
Your essay is formulaic af, and it's very boring to read over and over again about the horrors of social media and how technology is turning us all into self-absorbed zombies.
There will certainly always be people who abuse it, but in the end it is an effective tool to keep in touch with others, and has become increasingly necessary for marketing and networking.
I don't think you've said anything new about social media, and your ties to Infinite Jest are lazy.

>If anyone on Veeky Forums said IJ was good, you can credit our lively pseud community.
give me a break

Have you read IJ, user?

of course not, but would he admit that to you?

The classic response of someone who couldn't finish it. It's okay, user, keep reading John Green and you'll get the hang of books soon enough.

video telephony is a metaphor for the annoying metafictional parlor tricks he did for the first 12^2 pages of IJ, not a statement about real interface technology. He was talking about the syntax of tolstoy's sentence, not about real unhappy families. Hal? Hey Hal?

It's cool to dislike it because it's so popular. But it's popular because it's enjoyable to read! I like how Hal is always talking to the reader. I like how the reader is inserted sometimes, as the "Syrian Satellite pro." I like how whenever he writes a list of things, he makes the list into a tiny short story. I especially like the lists of words and definitions in Flesh & Not, which I think he laid out on the page deliberately. I like how he puts border decorations at the top and bottom of a lot of the pages in his Back Bay Books published works. I like the way he uses sunlight. I think his lens work is underrated.

There is a thread on here where fans of this book are literally just ranking the covers of the different editions, not discussing the book in anyway -- not even commenting on one anothers rankings. That thread will tell you everything you need to know about Infinite Jest and the people who claim to love it.

They have absolutely nothing to say about the actual book and are content to engage in the most low and base intellectual masturbation you could conceive of. Its not even about signalling intellectual superiority or ones refinement and taste, because no one else is even reading the list of numbers that others are posting. They do it entirely for themselves, it validates their conception of themselves as thoughtful and intelligent people, with unique ideas.

If you try and engage with the type of person who claims to like this book, you will find exactly the same behavior as in that thread. They have absolutely nothing to say about it, and their eyes glaze over any time someone but themselves is talking.

Fair enough.

Did you read any? Want to talk about the book?

I read a little over half of the book my freshman year of college, including the footnotes for the first half. For awhile I was reading in good faith and attempting to understand but after awhile I got more and more impatient with it until I started to feel like it was honestly a complete waste of time. I grew disgusted with it quickly and put it down shortly after.

I would be happy to talk about it, have you read it? What did you think of it and why?

I mean, I read all of it, so you'd have to start the conversation.

As are all people, deep down.

Well that's just not true.

Any book is too difficult for half of America. Consider that.

>good faith

You're the reason why this jest is infinite.

Yes, yes. Anime is much better.

Lmao are you joking? If so thats a good one. If not, let me tell you what I mean. I just got done writing a rant about how this books proponents all have nothing to say about it, and merely like the idea of being a person who is capable of liking the book because of their pretensions and misconceptions. And I asked you the direct question "What did you think of [Infinite Jest] and why?" and your response is that you read the whole book. So if you're joking thats actually perfect but if not, you probably aren't reading this anyway

Haha

I'm not sure why this needs to be explained. You asked if that person had read it. I as a third party said I had read it. And since I read the whole thing, I am coming into the conversation from a different perspective, so I ask to approach a conversation on your terms.
But, keep on frothing if you wish.

I'm just saying I started reading it because I liked what I had read of Gravity's Rainbow and what people were saying about IJ sounded like it could be interesting. I didn't go into it wanting to hate it and didn't even know anything about the author at the time

Nice quip though that was cool how it was like the title of the book, but different. Are you a writer? You seem smart.

You are super defensive right now, lol. I bet your heart is beating so fast.

I never asked for an explanation of happened, and I do not need one because I know what happened (see: the post you quoted and apparently did not read). So that's probably why you're confused.

Also your 'explanation' isn't really an explanation in that it provides no insight on the how or why of what happened. Like I said, "its funny and telling that you responded to the question, 'have you read the book' but not 'what did you think of it and why'?". And your response is:

> uhhhh do I really need to explain this?? hello?? I responded to the question 'have you read the book' but not 'what did you think of it and why' !!! duh!!!

Lets put all of this aside, I really do appreciate your willingness to approach a conversation on my terms by picking and choosing what you will read and respond to. Im interested to know what you thought of the book, and why you like/dislike it

Haha, thanks for sharing your insight but in the future just fyi this seems more like a "worthless thought to be discarded" and not a "post"

What the hell is wrong with you? Squeeze a ball or something.
It's kinda rare to see someone on Veeky Forums truly sperg out like this.
You asked the direct question of "have you read" before, and I was responding to that before we continued to what I thought of it. I really don't understand your belligerence here. It seems very simple that since I have more to say about the book, we talk about what you have to say about the book.

Because too many Reddit cucks like it.

Eery second book thread in /r/books and /r/literature are "I just started/finished Infinite Jest its amazing!", "Is DFW a genius?, "Wow i'm so obsessed with DFW since finishing Infinite Jest", "Infinite Jest changed my life" etc.

> What the hell is wrong with you? Squeeze a ball or something.
> It's kinda rare to see someone on Veeky Forums truly sperg out like this.

You post these worthless personal attacks and then in your next breath say I am acting "belligerent" because I pointed out that you are doing the exact type of thing I said IJ fans do immediately prior. And this was completely lost on your apparently.

> It seems very simple that since I have more to say about the book, we talk about what you have to say about the book.
Haha I think even your fellow IJ fans are going to have a hard time reading this without skepticism

Anyway, I think if you had as much to say about the book as you boast, you would have said at least one thing about it besides that you had read it. Especially after being asked "what did you like about the book and why?" three times. I am still interested in the answer to this question, but probably will not spend more time on this game where you pretend to be confused about why I am pointing out that you are ignoring a question I asked.

I am not boasting. Christ, mate. You read half the book, I read all of the book, which means I'll have more to say about it.
I haven't ignored any question. I'm taken aback by the bellicosity of your posts.
The sophomoric passive-aggression just makes it really difficult to talk to you.
My assessment of the book won't make any sense to you because you haven't fucking read the thing, so I thought we could talk about the half you read. Common denominator. I don't know where to start because you won't tell.

you don't need to have read infinite jest or to be a fan of it in order to rank its covers. I haven't read it, but I contributed
you came into this thread in a very aggressive and hostile manner. why shouldn't he address that? it certainly won't accomplish anything besides upsetting you further, but the way you're acting is hilariously obnoxious and it's aggressive to an over-the-top degree; it would require a lot of self-restraint to choose not to point it out
it really does appear as if you're saving face at this point, so you may as well bite the bullet and produce an opinion regardless of whether or not he'll be able to understand it

> You read half the book, I read all of the book, which means I'll have more to say about it.
Okay. I can say so far you have nothing to say about the book, except that you read it.

> I haven't ignored any question
This is a weird claim because since we started talking, every post I have made more or less asked you what you thought of the book, and I keep urging you to answer that question, but you keep not answering it. So if we accept your claim that you aren't ignoring the question, "what did you think of the book?" the word 'ignoring' is almost completely meaningless I think.

Its really remarkable that you and I both know you willfully not answering a question I have repeatedly asked of you, and that your avoiding this question is what this entire argument is about, and then you tell me I'm difficult to talk to.

You are also very condescending and you are telling me that your thoughts on the book will be incomprehensible to me, while making excuses about why you aren't willing to expose them to potential criticism. I think I have a fair chance of understanding your assessment of the book, given that I read a little over half the book (probably substantially more counting the foot notes if I recall). Unless I stopped reading right before the book changed into another, unrelated book I think I will definitely have some idea as to what you are talking about. Like I totally understood what you meant when you said "I read the book", which is all we have to go on so far

Yes. It was picayune.

You are right that you don't need to have read it or be a fan to rank the covers, but I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I really have no problem with him addressing my tone, I have engaged him on that and told him that my tone is perfectly reasonable when I am dealing with someone doing what he is doing and he never actually confronts what I say, he just repeats his complaints with bigger words. Reminder, I said this in my first post:

> They have absolutely nothing to say about the actual book and are content to engage in the most low and base intellectual masturbation you could conceive of. Its not even about signalling intellectual superiority or ones refinement and taste, because no one else is even reading the list of numbers that others are posting. They do it entirely for themselves, it validates their conception of themselves as thoughtful and intelligent people, with unique ideas.

Now look where we are. After a long 'discussion' this guy is still refusing to share his thoughts about the book and would rather dying on his tone argument hill. It doesn't matter that he embarasses himself with indefensible and self serving statements like "you will not be able to understand what I have to say about the book". It is all about maintaining his self perception.

This isn't aggressive and hostile, it is merely what transpired.

my point is that you can't accurately claim that the people who are ranking the book covers are all fans, so it really doesn't "tell you all you need to know about Infinite Jest and the people who claim to love it". they're just doing something fun

Surely you jest

Infinitely

CC CC::::

Bloom hates it

Branching out from books/authors you liked that way is definitely something worth doing. Pynchon led me to Hawkes (The Cannibal anticipates Gravity's Rainbow in certain ways, though Hawkes' fictional take on the war is more directly informed by him actually having been there as an ambulance driver) and I found Bernhard through Gaddis.