Achilles

Refer to this post, it's more of your level

Rage.

He grew up in a harem dressed as a woman named Pyrra. Probably fucked in the ass. Though he fucked bitches

He was above every other human and had no peer.

>cut off avenue for discussion before it even starts
Shut the fuck up, brainlet.

>Avenue of discussion
>Assigning structures of the psyche to characters like a first year undergrad pleb

LMAO

He got cucked.

What would you suggest instead? Go for it, I'm on the edge of my seat!

I want some slutty femboy Achille porn

I suggest you refer to this post

why does Veeky Forums shit on today's psychology but nonironically believe psychology from the 1800s?

Despite the Greeks recognizing the virtues and valor, they were fairly bad with acting it out.

The very first word of the Iliad is “RAGE.” The “RAGE” of Achilles when his honor is violated and his rightful prize and love is taken from him by his very own commander.

Right here we see Man versus State, as Achilles is the superior warrior, and as he takes all the risks, he ought get the reward. That is the Natural Law of Zeus, for after Achilles Natural Rights are violated and Achilles quits, Zeus sees to it that the Greeks begin to lose, as Zeus’s will was done.

Long before Atlas Shrugged in Rand’s cheap novel, Achilles quit the Greek army.

Homer shows that women who honor their commitments, like Penelope, lead to happy endings. Women who disregard their commitments, like Helen, lead to War.

Achilles quits for the sake of Honor, refuses to return when offered millions times more prizes, arguing that once honor is taken away, mere money/prizes cannot buy it back. He also reasons that all the wealth in the world is not worth him losing his life in an arena where his honor was taken away. When offered honors and awards, Achilles states, “I receive my honor from Zeus, not from corrupt Kings."

And too Achilles returns to fight for Honor, so as to avenge the death of his friend Patroculus, knowing full well he will die.

Simply put, Achilles is a man who lives and dies not for mere prizes, nor perks, nor tenure, nor titles, nor money, but for honor, and honor alone.

A few hundred years later, Socrates would invoke Achilles while facing death at his own trial. Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”

But then Socrates asked, “Would Achilles back down from battle if bribed by physical wealth?” Socrates reasoned he would be dishonoring the Great Achilles if he ever recanted his teachings.

>Socrates was offered perks and prizes and life if he would only recant his teachings that “Virtue does not come from money, but money and every lasting good of man derives form virtue.”
Doesn't that mean that since he'd been virtuous, he was deserving of and should take the money? Otherwise he just gets death and that means that virtue leads to death.

>copying and pasting shit reviews from shit reviewers
for what purpose?

His first problem was that his honor was violated when Agamemnon disgraced him by taking Briseis. His next problem was that he inadvertently caused his childhood friend's death. People saying he was just throwing a temper tantrum haven't read about the context of the poem at all.

He was like a god

19th century had a patrician aesthetic, so its nonsense mumbo jumbo is more fun.

good post.

I would add that Achilles represents the ideal of the Greek warrior and the problematic nature inherent in it.

The attaining of kleos (greek for something like renown, eternal glory) is the ideal of the Greek warrior. This is achieved through combat prowess.

Achilles, in fulfilling this ideal, allows Homer to explore how problematic it is that this individualist, honor-based, warrior code really is.

He compares himself to a lion or wolf compared to Hector as sheep or man. This in being the ideal Greek hero he himself becomes something like an animal. He denies Hector's plea and thus becomes inhuman.

I don't think Homer necessarily glorifies or condemns war, but he definitely sees it as tragic. The kleos of one results from the death and shame of another. This is the tragedy of the Iliad, as everybody wilts under force of one kind or another.

Basically, the shitdick thought he was tough shit (he was, though his mother was a stupid cunt and didn't just drop him in the river) and allowed pride to overtake him, thus making him a huge bitch. Poster child for an le epic hero, really.

>When the cuck is actually the hero of the story.

Woah...

underrated

Childhood is siding with Hector. Adulthood is realizing Achilles was right.

Ego.

It was Peleo who didn't want Tetis to make him immortal

t. Hasn't read the Iliad

Nothing. Our values just differ from that of the Greeks of the time. We think pride is terrible unless tempered with humility, so Achilles is a big bitch asshole. For them, a man's pride and honor was everything so Achilles was the manliest of men.

To be virtuous unto death is a great thing. This is why we came to consider that it might be rewarded.

Hector is the real hero of the Iliad

youtube.com/watch?v=5FwHjMexjf0

His mom didn't dip him right

Wrong. That's a tradition which is either not known to or specifically rejected by Homer. Read the Iliad.

It's a joke user relax.

Also I'm reading Fagles' translation now which seems to be the most popular one around here.

That's a funny way of spelling Lattimore.

Achilles did nothing wrong
DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE TO BLOODSHED

Fagles is better.

L
A
T
T I M O R E

Lol Plato sets up Socrates as a type of anti-achilles. He never gets angry, chooses to philosophize instead of pursue public honors which won't make him happy anyways, and goes out on his own terms instead of a bullshit technicality that the gods built into his faith. Socrates even argues in the Republic that the before forming a new regime we need to throw out the old myths and stories like the Illiad and the all of the unjust visions of virtue they propagate. Socrates is the new non-toxic and rational male hero intended to replace Achilles, not just ape him.

At last I see, Plato was truly the first feminist

I seem to recall a diologue in which Socrates argues that Odysseus is more noble than Achilles? In Ion I think?

Fagles is Rouse tier. It's a fucking abomination. The absolute worst readily available edition out there.

Have you read the Rieu translation? It's the one I read and I enjoyed it immensely, but I won't pretend that that means all that much.

>Staying true to the Greek.
>Literal translations.
>Like it matters.
>An oral poem.

Thats not a very hard argument to make senpai.

If he was truly noble he would have given Achilles' armour to Ajax. Big bugger was cheated out of his rightful spoils because Odysseus was better at speaking.

Fagles is offensive to read. I don't care about oral tradition or "staying true to the Greek". It reads like an ad hoc "modern kid getting into literature" edition. It's the very worst translation I've read, no art, no interest, and turns one of the greatest ancient works into an obvious translation of a great ancient work. It's a disruptive, nauseating experience. Every page is like taking fish bones out of your mouth.