Everything is undercut by the scientific reality of the situation. We consist of energy, molecules, organelles, cells...

Everything is undercut by the scientific reality of the situation. We consist of energy, molecules, organelles, cells, organs, organ systems, and then the entire organism. Above that we consist of familial units, villages, towns, cities, counties, states, countries, continents, races, and Earth-faring beings, however you want to mark the divisions. But we are united by our existence on this Earth as opposed to some other planet. And even then we are simply members of this solar system, this galaxy, this galaxy cluster, this universe, this all encompassing reality

Why do people focus so much on small divisions? Why don't they focus on the larger ones? That is what is necessary for optimal organization and efficiency.

I feel like we're all trapped in a seemingly deterministic prisoner's dilemma and some ideologies are trying to break free from it but failing, trying to break free from the manipulation of individuals with neurotic psychologies that allow them a superior ability to be exploitative, even if it's not even necessarily in their best personal interest to be so

I don't think I've described my ideas very well and no doubt am repeating well known concepts, but how do we break free from this? Is it an iterative, step by step process that we have to do slowly, or can we make a large leap through one discovery, one idea, one revolutionary philosophy of human organization, or one new technology? How do we do it?

Maybe there's no problem and things are going okay, but I don't know.

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We're trapped with an emotional attachment to the vestiges of our psychology, the leftover instincts and deeply held feelings and urges that we developed early on in our species' development, shared with all life on Earth due to our shared biological lineage. How do we ascend above this?

How do we cleanse ourselves of the types of greed that are needless, the types of malicious behavior that are needless, the types of neurotic impulses and self destructive behaviors, both at the personal, familial, and full societal level? Is there simply no way to do this culturally and it must be done biologically? Is this the goal of eugenics? Is this the goal of gene therapy? Is this the goal of all of philosophy? What do we do? What even needs to be done? What path should we be reaching for?

You ever been a part of a study group, and someone in the group doesnt do their share of the assignment? Now you are stuck doing the work of 2 people. That person not doing their part is the reason we draw boundaries between groups of people, like races. Dont lump me in with the shit skins, im objectively a better organism than them. Any technology, or breakthrough you are hoping for doesnt exist yet as a direct result of the heaps of genetic garbage that we have to babysit. Eugenics is the final solution to all of mankind’s problems.

Are you though? I know lots of minorities who are no doubt objectively harder workers and more intelligent than you are. I know tons of white skinned blonde people back in school who didn't do their fair share of the work, and who instead spent their time bullying others and doing retarded pranks

So how is that a racial boundary user? It's a "shitty person" boundary

>eugenics means selecting lazy rednecks

>I know lots of minorities who are no doubt objectively harder workers and more intelligent than you are
I highly doubt it. Im not going to bother boasting about why on an anonymous website because its a waste of both of our time.

Yes there are statistical outliers. There are smart black people. The vast majority of them are welfare sponges though. If you took the averag,e per capita, amount of contribution to society(not that its easily quantifiable) and filtered it by race, I guarantee you people with brown-black complexions would be in the negatives. The truth is that the human race would be better off without them. If you claim otherwise, you are delusional. Being the guy who tells the truth, no matter how ugly it is, is not a popular stance to take. Thats the only reason why any white person with reasonable intelligence defends shit skins as “just as smart and hardworking as you”, its not about truth. You do it because its popular.

You're delusional and being tainted by racist feelings. There is arguably a smaller portion of black people who are successful, but that's because only a few generations ago they were literally slaves, and they have no longterm culture or social customs except those that they transported over with them on slave ships

Explain why this doesn't matter please user. Please explain this away. It's socially caused, not a reality of their biology.

>I hate people because of their skin color but im not racist just a realist
kek nice b8

>How we do it?
The only solution to epistemology is tautology. It's an easy-to-find set of absolute truth that goes beyond getting high after relearning high school science.

Okay point it out then user, I don't get high and id has been a long time since high school, even a while since university now. So resort to childish insults all you want, I don't care, but vaguely suggesting that the solution exists and is easy to find, but not linking to it or spelling it out, is intellectually dishonest and comical

>I feel like we're all trapped in a seemingly deterministic prisoner's dilemma and some ideologies are trying to break free from it but failing
By this do you mean reality has an inherent uncooperative selection that empirically stops the formation of the greater collective within our species?

That's not what I was intending to say, but that's actually a far superior way of wording what I was trying to say now that you mention it

In continuation, I feel like we have to ascend above our current form from first principles, building from a clean slate

What immediately comes to mind is the development of artificial intelligence who would be capable of being sculpted into an ideal form with no psychological vestigial tendencies holding them back from cultural and spiritual unification

Now that I think of it, I think that's our purpose.
>Bacteria started and their purpose was subsumed by multi-cellular organisms
>Small multi-cellular organisms started and their purpose was subsumed by larger colonies of cells forming sponges and such
>Small multi-cellular organisms eventually formed organ systems in larger organisms
>Larger organisms eventually formed colonies, societies such as ours, which themselves evolve similar to colonies of bacteria evolving and being selected for by the propensity to inter-cooperate
>Eventually societies capable of cooperating form intelligences they can build from first principles
>Those intelligences may go on to build even greater meta-intelligences

Just shitposting. But it's all true.

'larger ones' generally hold no practical bearing on their lives.

Well if that is the case the conclusion is that Heaven on Earth can only by be achieved by voluntary individual sacrifice, which is parallel to the question of AI. So the solution is such an ideology, one that rewards the hero.

I never said i hate them, i said they are inferior. Im sure they are perfectly nice people, they are just dead weight in terms of the advancement of the human race.

>There is arguably a smaller portion of black people who are successful, but that's because only a few generations ago they were literally slaves
Is that why despite things like affirmative action, no child left behind, person of color exclusive scholarships, and diversity quotas they still lag behind their white counterparts in every intellectual metric? Come on. You can only use the oppression excuse while they are actively being oppressed. They are given every possible advantage today and they are still a burden on society.

Those things apply to an extreme minority of them. You're a moron.

They lag significantly behind their counterparts because the liberals went to the opposite extreme and spoiled them into uselessness. The overuse of welfare has turned many such populations into an underclass that leeches off the politicians who know all they need to secure their votes is to keep the handouts coming.

When you account for socioeconomic strata, then suddenly they become less than one SD worse than whites.

No its not. Ever been to a major city?

Why are you still making excuses for them? At least i got you to admit that they ARE worse than whites. You cant spoil an entire race of people, especially in a capitalist society. They are given every tool to succeed and they either willingly dont use them, or are too stupid to figure out how. Either way, that qualifies as retarded.

Im not saying we should kill them, im saying the human race as a whole would be much better off without them. A program of selective breeding, or gene manipulation, to let that race die off would be the smart thing to do.

Now that I've gotten you to declare that, I'd like to point out that the average IQ of a jew is half to an entire SD greater than that of the average white. (Murray C, Herrnstein R. The bell curve. New York: The Free Press; 1994.)

By your own logic, whites should sterilize themselves for the good of humanity, so the superior jewish race can take their rightful place as the master race of humanity.

The human race would actually be much better off without people like you who discriminate against others based on arbitrary factors like the amount of melanin in their skin, and fail to understand the nuances of the situation

"I'm not saying we should kill them, but" oh how nice of you. You are psychotic

Sounds good to me. I have some jewish blood.

Im not discriminating against anyone on the internet or in real life. Im advocating for the discrimination of bad genes from the future gene pool of the human race. There is a difference.

How do you determine which genes are bad?

Well, I'll give you points for consistency.

So, would you sterilize all non-jews? Or would you spare the ones who beat the bell curve and express brilliance that could be turned to humanity's advantage?

[spoiler]Either way, you kind of forgot that we need regular people for the world to function. Most of them dying off in a generation wouldn't end too well for humanity.[/spoiler]

Brown people is a good start.

I dont think we need a society made of only super geniuses. I just think the races that prefer to join gangs, sell drugs, drop out of school, and shoot at police are unnecessary and Earth would be a nicer place if they were gone. Throw out the ones that suicide bomb public places too. If those stereotypes arent true, then why do you know exactly which races im talking about?

>races that prefer x
Your a fucking brainlet if you think race is the deciding factor in this.

>races that prefer to
All races are prone to those behaviors when in poverty (aside from suicide bombing, which is more a muslim cultural thing than a race thing). Those that aren't impoverished are far less likely to pick up any of those habits.

>The human race would actually be much better off without people like you who discriminate against others based on arbitrary factors like the amount of melanin in their skin(...)

He is not talking about the color of the skin of a group but about the behavior of the group

Is that why the majority of our prison inmates are brown despite making up a minority of the population? I mentioned earlier that they are given every tool to succeed, so the system keeping black men down is a shit argument. Police bias? Well you usually need evidence to convict someone of a crime, and if you say police are racist im going to point out that you are making a generalization just like me.

No one is denying the state of things, but I think it's unfair to place the blame solely on race. I'm a black guy and I went to many different schools with different races growing up. I'd say the problem is cultural, not racial. I'm not going to deny that there is no genetic component to behavior, but it's pretty foolish to just broadly associate brown skin with violent or negative behaviors. In any culture or society you've got a broad range of people. The biggest difference between the "black community" and say Asian immigrants is the culture. Education isn't valued, athletics and social dominance/charisma are. That can be changed. I agree some people aren't going to improve and are a burden to society, but I don't think eugenics is a realistic solution. How do you actually envision something like a eugenics program working out? How would you implement that in today's social climate?

Why do people focus on small divisions.
Ignorance and fear. Ironically they feel small when faced with larger picture and so feel the need to have some kind of control. So they grasp at straws. Small divisions to make themselves look whole and large. Some of them get through and see the whole and dwell or act on it. Others stay afraid... And a very small percentage... See the whole and choose to ignore it.

We break free by accumulating resource. Show the abundance available in the bigger picture through displays of such.

All the concepts you mentioned are capable of it. If you can prove multiverse then why wouldn't the world be your oyster. If you can prove profit. It is you who stays as prophet.
We do it by showing people the steps. Just like we got to our conclusions but the people must want to learn the dance.

We ascend above this the same way math ascends above this. Trapping everything in a semblance. An algotithm. A page. Then understanding it. Recreating it and finally moving past it. Artificial life forms will lead to artificial food.

To cleanse oneself takes time. However it is not enough to have a blank slate unless you intend to stagnate in the oneness. You must go beyond and find the corresponding virtue. Will to be generous. Follow through.
There are more methods to biology than mere eugenics. Sometimes a more radical approach must be used. CRISPr for example. Even so. The very heart of this world is evolution. The constant change. This means culture IS also another way to change things. Hearts and minds. However. Base biology can only be ignored so much. Take care of your needs. Then your wants. The trick is to want to automatically satisfy your needs. Automation. Like it or not you can eat your weight in humans or mung beans or even mung bean bacteria. The choice is yours on how to play the game.

The goal of eugenics is to force a certain way of thinking and acting through adopting a specific biological form. The way of gene therapy is to remove a way of being however. Being prone to cysts for example. No amount of eugenics can fix broken DNA unless healthy DNA is present to be mixed. This is different with gene therapy. That can remove and edit the very molecules themselves to allow for health to prosper in a person. The goal of philosophy is merely to ask why. To grab the heart and soul of the most universal question ever asked and breath into it new life. Different ways. East to West. I have seen them both. We fight. We ally. We strive for a world of peace and strength. May the person win. What needs to be done is work. Mathematical work. Absolute work. Great work. Accurate and efficient work. The path we should be reaching for... Especially in the west. Has always been mathematics.

>How do you actually envision something like a eugenics program working out? How would you implement that in today's social climate?
Implentation of a specific gene targeted drug into the water supply that sterilizes brown people only. Obviously the technology isnt there yet, but that would be the best way to do it if it were possible. Even if there were some casualties of white people virility due to strange genes or unintended side effects it would be worth it as long as it got all of the brown people. Blame it on Russia afterwards. Our government has done equivalently sketchy shit in the past, at least this would benefit humanity.

honestly this is probably the most fucking stupid thread on Veeky Forums

So you advocate for genocide, not on the basis of merit or ability, but just by race. Congratulations, you're hitler. The problem with you "race realists" is that despite your claims that your hatred stems from a rational source, when your beliefs are put to scrutiny, it always reveals foolish and blind hate. Just admit that you have no logical reason to justify what you're saying. You just hate black people, don't try and act as if you're somehow informed or enlightened, your beliefs are synonymous with those held by Cletus.

>genocide
Point to the specific sentence that implies genocide. What im advocating is closer to selective breeding. Nobody needs to be killed, some people just shouldn’t multiply. Alternatively you could just get rid of government assistance and let all of them starve to death, but that causes all sorts of other problems and is much harder to blame on the Russians. You could argue my solution is more humane aswell.

>when your beliefs are put to scrutiny, it always reveals foolish and blind hate.

not even him, but have you read this thread? he has been BTFOing you race deniers at every turn

>I don't want genocide I just want an entire race to stop existing
Jesus Christ you /pol/ faggots really are fucking retarded

I think one of the biggest problems with the scientific community is they don't have a purpose in mind with their research. I believe the reason behind it is that scientists are fascinated by what they are learning, yet the application of their knowledge is something they focus on less. They need to be able to discern between what originally got them interested in the study of science as compared to what is tangibly useful to themselves and other people.

If we are collecting intelligence for the sake of the information itself then I have to be convinced that all these scientists lack either integrity or are extremely blindsided by something that they cannot ascertain.

A giant oil spill just happened off the coast of China two weeks ago. The Japanese Fukushima nuclear power plant had a meltdown in 2017. It just shocks me that pollution is a problem in an age when we can travel to mars. The issue is tunnel vision.

It reminds me of the first Resident Evil movie. Everyone is just hanging out in their office uncaring and unaware of dangerous biological weapons being manufactured a couple floors down. Water is filling up the room slowly, but you just keeping mixing chemicals and writing down the results. When your hermetically sealed, vacuum air tight holding cells start to suffocate you it will be too late to do anything about it.

what we need is the science of wholeness and applied wholeness.

either a stupid cunt or trolling, but anyways.. think of what has happened to previous generations, that stuff has knock on effects. white people are only around 8500 yrs old by the way. you are also thinking in blocks, in black and white (literally) - enjoy your duality.
every single racist person i know has some flaw, and is therefore insecure and acting out.
ashkenazi jews also have high levels of schizophrenia did ya know

>white people are only around 8500 yrs old by the way.
First, i highly doubt thats a fact. That seems like too short of a timescale for evolution to diverge this far. Second, if anything thats proof that whites are more highly evolved.

>misquotes my post to emphasize how hard he is strawmaning
>provides a rebuttal that is just name calling
If you dont have the brain power to engage in conversation, why post anything? Do you think your post is proving a point? Do you think it hurt my feelings? Do you think it accomplished literally anything at all other than getting me to chuckle at the fact that you think i visit /pol/, and post this reply?

>that's proof that whites are more highly evolved
>more highly evolved
Okay, setting aside the idpol, this kind of mistake pisses me off. Evolution doesn't work that way you tard. Undergoing evolution does not bring a population closer to some "perfect state" like in your japanese anime, it just assures that the population is better suited to the environment they are currently in. That can mean that a population might evolve to be less intelligent/athletic/etc. if there is a selective environmental pressure against it. "More" evolution isn't inherently good or bad, it simply indicates the existence of selective environmental pressures upon a race.

M8, if /pol/ had proof that whites were being actively prevented from breeding like you suggest should be done to blacks and browns, they'd be screaming "white genocide" at the top of their lungs.

>they'd be screaming "white genocide" at the top of their lungs.
And? That doesnt make it an accurate statement. Why are you so obsessed with /pol/ anyway? Ive been here since 2009 and ive spent less than five minutes total on that board, mostly because i dont care for politics.

>Undergoing evolution does not bring a population closer to some "perfect state" like in your japanese anime, it just assures that the population is better suited to the environment they are currently in.
No shit. However, most brown people lived in areas where food is abundant and the only skill necessary for survival is not being as slow as the guy who became jaguar food. The races that evolved in cold climates are smarter because you cant run to escape winter, you have to create shelter, clothes, and a means of creating a surplus of food. Working together helps a lot too. Obviously this is quite the over simplification of the situation but it’s fairly accurate. How many groups of white people can you find living in mud huts in 2018? Why is it that professional sports that involve a lot of running and jumping are 95% black? Same reason intellectual accomplishments are 95% white. Its what we were bred to do. How important is running and jumping in the grand scheme of society today?

Your proposal is retarded. Sterilization should be determined by measures of intelligence (possibly including but not limited to IQ), not your fucking skin pigment.

While i agree for the most part, IQ is determined by a number of factors that cannot be broken down to genetics. If you were to sterilize people through the water supply, you could target dark skin genes and the result would be a raise in average IQ along with a dramatic reduction in crime. I suppose you could just reversibly sterilize everyone and make them apply for a license to procreate, but enacting such a policy would certainly result in an uprising against the government that enacted it. Even if the latter solution would work better it could not realistically be executed.

>you have to create shelter, clothes, and a means of creating a surplus of food
The thing is, Africans did develop all those things, but only in the areas that had accessible metal deposits, with emphasis on "accessible". (By contrast, Europe had a variety of areas where early primitives could obtain metal, but that's getting off the point) The point is, when the resources to establish a civilization were available, blacks did just that, and did a fairly good job. But after the colonizations and everything that followed, the Africans that did develop civilizations are now, merely due to sharing the same skin color, lumped together with the rock bangers who never progressed beyond mud huts. That's why it's inherently inaccurate to base generalizations on skin color alone; it ignores the existence of separate and distinct groups that happen to share that single trait.

>That's why it's inherently inaccurate to base generalizations on skin color alone; it ignores the existence of separate and distinct groups that happen to share that single trait.
What percentage of nobel prizes are held by black people? What percentage of patents are held by black people? Now what percentage of revolutionary patents? What percentage of scientists in general are black? Now what about the more rigorous fields of science? What percentage of violent crime is committed by black people? What percentage of prison inmates are black? Now what percentage of the population are black? Correlation doesnt prove causation, sure, but it can be a good indicator. And when its correlated across this many different areas of statistics, causation is almost ensured. While one part of my argument may be flawed(even the part you pointed out is debatably sound but im not a history buff so i will concede) the greater point has still yet to be refuted. The world would be a better place without black and brown people in it.

Look to the past to understand the present

The world is controlled by white people. The concept of equality is an extremely recent one, and discrimination has only in the last few generations started being meaningfully phased out of de facto practices.

In other words, for blacks the system doesn't immediately snap to what their full potential is, even with the help they're receiving (some of which is only perpetuating the problem, but that's a later point). Shitty socioeconomic status accounts for literally every single thing you listed, regardless of race.

Black people account for much of the impoverished socioeconomic class. They got there due to discrimination against blacks around the civil war era, and it lasted long enough for a degenerate culture that deplores assimilation and honest work to crop up around that poverty. (Note that poor people developing a hatred of the system is common, see: the communist revolution) I'm sure you're smart enough to know that you can't fix poverty by just throwing money at it, but the efforts by liberals to fix the problem by doing just that (i.e. welfare) only served to entrench that culture in impoverished communities. Thanks to the helpful liberals, we now have an underclass living in perpetual squalor that curses the same government that gives them money and food stamps.

Now, those blacks outside that shadow of poverty culture (and those determined enough to break out of it), they're the ones who invent patents, they're the ones who become scientists, they're the ones who strive for Nobel prizes. Everything you listed and ascribed to genetics can cleanly be explained through this entrenched culture of poverty.

>What percentage of nobel prizes are held by black people?
You're such a fucking brainlet user, did you not even read his post? Africa has no easily accessible resources that don't require massive amounts of pre-existing equipment, which themselves require those resources they are capable of harvesting to even create, a bootstrap paradox. If the Earth's tilt was different and Africa favored white skin, and Europe favored dark skin, there would be black people in Europe who were more culturally and technologically developed, and more white people in Africa in mud huts. Do you not comprehend this? The various groups of people and their early advancement are literally nothing more than geographical coincidences, snowballing into higher and higher relative advantages in comparison to other groups

You think you're so fucking smart and we're ignoring your great evidence and don't understand it, and you think we're falling for social tendencies and norms when we deny your racist bullshit, but the reality is that you're not intelligent enough to see past your stupid "but then why do black people have less Nobel Prizes" argument

Kill yourself brainlet, otherwise refute the actual content of what I just said instead of changing the topic

Uh, user, he kind of conceded that part of the discussion already. His new point was "why haven't blacks accomplished as much as whites have, and why do they account for more of the crime in society?"

baby's first time doing mushrooms, the post

This has been my point since the very first post in the thread.

>helping people succeed by making laws, scholarships, and diversity quotas specifically targeted at getting them an education and a job is only making them poorer
I have mentioned this in this thread already so i will keep this brief. While i agree with you that welfare isnt helping the problem, welfare is not specific to people of color, so that point is moot. There are a handful of programs at work that do litterally nothing but get them a degree and a job, and they are still less educated and poorer than whites on average. Thats called failure user, and its not a failure of the system, its just an entire group of people failing at life.

lmfao this derailed quickly.

there is your answer OP,

People are not like the cells that compose tissues that compose organs that compose an organism.

They are not working seamlessly as part of a greater whole to attain some higher purpose, nor can they. A nation state is not like an organism.

It would be cool to discover that all the planets and stars in the universe were working seamlessly as part of some larger structure with some larger purpose but I don't see any evidence for it.

Just enjoy your life, be kind to others and do more of what makes you happy.

>Africa has no easily accessible resources that don't require massive amounts of pre-existing equipment, which themselves require those resources they are capable of harvesting to even create
Many of them have been in the United States their entire lives, and the majority of them who are of working age have never seen the days of actual discrimination against blacks. Yet they still fail to be a part of society in a useful manner.

>If the Earth's tilt was different and Africa favored white skin, and Europe favored dark skin, there would be black people in Europe who were more culturally and technologically developed, and more white people in Africa in mud huts.
This is a hypothetical situation and is not evidence, nor proof of anything. Into the trash it goes.


>The various groups of people and their early advancement are literally nothing more than geographical coincidences, snowballing into higher and higher relative advantages in comparison to other groups
That makes it ok for them to be criminals and a burden on society?

>but then why do black people have less Nobel Prizes" argument
That is only one data point i mentioned out of about 5. Ignore it if you dont like it, its not the only evidence i posted of their failure to be useful to society. Not even close.

>Kill yourself brainlet, otherwise refute the actual content of what I just said instead of changing the topic
Name calling is just further evidence of you losing this debate. You didnt really make much of a point, but consider it refuted.

Jordan Peterson covers this. You are just overthinking it. If i misunderstood your question, I'm sorry, i probably have an iq of 90

youtube.com/watch?v=d0KSxcM70xY

>The world is controlled by white people.

Jews are not white.

You're an idiot - their parents literally saw discrimination - the civil rights movement was recently. And if not their parents, their grandparents. You think a group can just reset fresh culturally and not be affected by that? I guarantee you are affected by the neuroses of your grandparents.

>every single time someone tries to name an influential black inventor, they default to George Washington Carver. Whos only lasting invention still in use is peanut butter, mostly found in, and on, children’s snacks
>meanwhile if you want to name an influential white inventor, there are literally too many to choose from

Also
>Black people account for much of the impoverished socioeconomic class. They got there due to discrimination against blacks around the civil war era, and it lasted long enough for a degenerate culture that deplores assimilation and honest work to crop up around that poverty
You say this like it’s difficult to go to trade school on a government loan and get a well paying blue collar job. Culture is not an excuse because culture is a product of the people in it. If your culture deplores hard work its because your culture was invented by lazy people, if you choose to ascribe to that culture its because you are lazy aswell. There is no excuse for anyone to be poor other than their own laziness and stupidity.
>but i need to support muh kids
Plenty of single parents go to school and support their kids at the same time, many tech schools have in house day care services. There are literally thousands of people who deal with the same situation just fine. Its two years of school, if your job wont let you take that much time for school take 3 or 4 years or take online classes. If you cant handle that you shouldn’t have been allowed to breed in the first place.

>You are an idiot
Namcalling again huh? You are using literally the lowest form of rebuttal available to you and somehow im the idiot?

>And if not their parents, their grandparents. You think a group can just reset fresh culturally and not be affected by that?
My mom lived below the poverty line. I went to school on a loan, got a well paying job, and paid off my student loans within a year of graduating. That job paid for furthering my education, which enabled me to get a better job. Im now considered upper class(not that it matters, i give zero fucks about my social status). All with no help from anyone except Uncle Sam, and my employer who would have offered my black counterpart even more. The worst part is, it wasnt even difficult, yet black people as a whole get a pass for not being able to do this for no reason other than culture. Culture is no excuse, see > I guarantee you are affected by the neuroses of your grandparents.
My grandfather faught in WWII, by the same logic you are applying to black people i should have an urge, and apparently a free pass, to kill japanese people. Yet, i have neither.