Classical Marxism is the most Veeky Forums political position

Classical Marxism is the most Veeky Forums political position.

Other urls found in this thread:

phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Oaks_Community,_Virginia
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

I agree. Being outdated is pretty Veeky Forums.

/pol/ here.

Marxism doesn't work.
>Soviet Union
>Cuba
>West Germany
>Venezuela

Holy shit, do i need to go on?

Hi leftypol

Marx was fucking retardarded

do you believe in scientology too?

why do you deny human evolution and sociobiology?

Marx has been debunked, just fucking move on already

What the fuck? I'm against Marxism fucking learn to read

>Venezuela

keep repeating the memes boy, since you clearly don't know that a) venezuela is largely capitalist and b) its situation has nothing to do with its economic structure

thu'sly's i shall renounce my literacy

/leftpol/ here.

None of those countries practiced real Marxism; they were all state capitalist. The same of goes for all the other failed socialist states.

No fuck off back to /pol/ you nazi fuck.

>leftpol he...
Go back to starving.

>ruling party is called United Socialist Party of Venezuela
>NOT REAL SOCIALISM
>MY SPECIFIC BRAND OF COMMUNISM HASNT BEEN TRIED

Fuck off antifa.

...

>historical materialism

Give me an example of when this based something that is aesthetically pleasing.

>Venezuela
one of the most unfree markets on earth and this is the very reason they are poor and enslaved

>/leftpol/ here.
You should probably kill yourself.

>None of those countries practiced real Marxism
because real marxism is fucking impossible
kill yourself

>No fuck off back to /pol/ you nazi fuck.
why do you think anyone against statist authoritarianism is a nazi?
nazis also supported statist authoritarianism

This image is fallacious because the economic system of those dictators haven't caused the atrocities they have carried out.

Can I use that argument as well to say that no one has ever tried real fascism? Because you know, theories of fascism are very different from what was actually applied, if you read some Giovanni Gentile and friends...

Chile and pinochet did NOTHING wrong.
Okay maybe a few things, he wasn't 100% free market, but at least he murdered commies.

It's funny the only examples you have are examples of dictators doing anti capitalist bullshit.

>they were all state capitalist

Clockwork.

Marxists actually believe anything that isn't communism is capitalism.

They are actually this retarded.

Why do all your marxist friends claim they were socialist then? lol

>Venezuela doesn't practice my rotten ideologies because they don't result as I want to!

>everything bad done by communists
>obviously communism is at fault
>people starving to death or being killed by wars in capitalism
>it's just people being evil you dummy

really fires up the neurons

FREE THE MARKET

DESTROY CENTRAL BANKS

KILL ALL COMMUNISTS

Jesus Christ, is there a more stupid ideology than anarchocapitalism?

Marxism v. Ancap = Materialism with state control v. Materialism without state control.

In both ideologies people live like fucking beasts. The only difference is that in the first you are ruled by Stalin and in the second by Immortan Joe.

is there any ideology worse than the ideology that strawmans anarchocapitalism

im not even an ancap but you are retarded and ignorant of history

Come at me anime boy :'-(

>everything is so automated
so the cost of capital is extremely cheap and there is massive deflation leading to a massive service sector economy?

oh god sounds horrible

>n both ideologies people live like fucking beasts.
Materialism is a fact of human instincts/human nature.
Why do you deny science?

Applied Marxism leads to the worst literature in human history. I know because I was born in a commie country.

how does it feel that your commie ideology will be dead in 50 years?

lmao

The reason why communism is at fault is that communism is a totalitarian ideology i.e it merges together the private and public life of every individual and makes them indistinguishable.
This means that its cultural genocide is directly caused by the necessity to make people conform to a statist economic system.
Capitalism on the other hand is exclusively about the allocation of resources; how these resources are distributed in a society is up to political ideologies

>patrick is actually correct

way to fail memeing

It leads to shitty aesthetics all around.

'Materialism is a fact of human instincts' barely has sense in the English language, you may have to explain to me what do you mean by this.

And why do YOU deny science, my friend, when both quantum physics and recents discoveries are drifting toward the idea that 'materiality' as we know it is an illusion and we live inside a projection?
Maybe it's time you re-settle your priorities. Here's a link, educate yourself.

phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html

Anyone who talks about "classical" or "orthodox" Marxism is a useless hack and a vulgarizer.

>'Materialism is a fact of human instincts' barely has sense in the English language, you may have to explain to me what do you mean by this.
meaning humans beings like material things and like to own materials

>when both quantum physics and recents discoveries are drifting toward the idea that 'materiality' as we know it is an illusion and we live inside a projection?
define projection?

>phys.org/news/2017-01-reveals-substantial-evidence-holographic-universe.html
Please go back to /x/ or Veeky Forums.

All marxists deserve to be thrown out of helicopters.
Even the "peaceful" "academics".

Brutalist architecture is still harmless when you compare it to commie blocks. Where the single elevator breaks down and isn't fixed doe 5 years. And the electricity as well as water is turned off 10 hours a day and the whole night. But then again, that won't matter because you're not at home, you spend your whole daytime waiting in line to buy a single kg of flour.

how did that shithole building not collapse?

When communism is implemented correctly it works. For example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Oaks_Community,_Virginia

When it isn't (i.e. state capitalism) it doesn't work e.g. Venezuela.

>meaning humans beings like material things and like to own materials
Nobody is doubting that. Materialism is a little bit more than that, though. If you agree with materialism, everything is matter, and material things are the ONLY things you like. It means you can be satisfied solely by possessing material stuff and by improving your material conditions. According to this viewpoint, if you are rich you can't be unhappy. See it for yourself is this is how you live your life.


>Define projection
>Please go back to /x/ or Veeky Forums.

There's a link to the academic article the piece was taken from, at the end. Maybe try reading it. And maybe, in general, read something scientific once in a while, because your fedora-tipping claims about how people 'like materials' are not really doing the trick.

>Shah of Iran was only in power as a US puppet to protect the oil industry
>Leopold II, king of Belgium, responsible for the murder of 10 million Congolese in a Belgian colony
>Pinochet only in power because backed by the US and he wasn't a communist
>not capitalist

When it isn't "THE STATE" it may work. Because it exists in a working economic environment. Once it takes over the state, the economic environment goes to hell as are the lives of all people living there.

>If you agree with materialism, everything is matter, and material things are the ONLY things you like
Materialism is wrong.
Consciousness is a fundamental part of the Universe. Materialists are wrong because they think we are just made of a bunch of unconscious stuff and magically we become conscious. You can't make a subject out of a bunch of objects no matter how they interact.

* egoism

>everything is matter, and material things are the ONLY things you like. It means you can be satisfied solely by possessing material stuff and by improving your material conditions
Not true at all

materialism includes my brain
my brain includes emotions which means non material things

idiot

Agreed.

>The reason why communism is at fault is that communism is a totalitarian ideology i.e it merges together the private and public life of every individual and makes them indistinguishable.
JESUS CHRIST THIS IS LENINISM NOT MARXISM YOU STUPID FUCKING RETARD I SWEAR NOBODY ON THIS FUCKING BOARD KNOWS WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT GODDAMMIT

FUCK YOU

Egoism is so retarded lmao

there are so few egoists that property owners will shoot and kill the egoists that trespass on their property

egoists are cucKs lmao

I was making a point against it to show that it is absurd to believe in materialism, read the previous posts.

DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NAZISM AND FASCISM BY THE WAY BECAUSE THAT'S A LEFTY THING THAT SENDS ME FULL CAPS LOCK EVERY TIME

I AM ON THE OTHER SIDE BUT I FEEL YOU BRO

Anything except free market nationalism is fucking cancer desu

marxists/social democrats/central bankers need to have their throats slit

Marxism cannot function without tyranny.

THIS

marxism is statism

it pretends to be anarchist but it actually says that a massive tyrannical state is required to create socialism

its fucking bullshit slavery and only the most gullible of people fall for it

We already live under tyranny
All nazi's are fascists, but not all fascists are nazi's.

Anyway, of course a normal discussion on Marx is not possible anymore on nu Veeky Forums. Time to move on I guess

>Material things are the ONLY things you like
You fucking retard, materialism has nothing to do with that. Materialism is a theory that focuses on how the material reproduction of human beings shapes their social existence. The specific form of production and distribution in a society, and the relations that arise from these - in short, the economic structure - are the primary determinants of social relations. Accordingly, materialism seeks an explanation for ideological forms in their material/economic/productive presuppositions, and how social conflicts can be traced back to conflicts in the relations of production.

I shouldn't be surprised that nobody here even comprehends the materialist conception of history, god forbid you skim the first chapter of The German Ideology before pretending to critique Marx.

t. someone who never read Marx

>it actually says that a massive tyrannical state
who is 'it'? Marx? He never said that
>only the most gullible of people
yuh like almost all important intellectuals and artists of the early 20th century right

>We already live under tyranny
then why do you want more tyranny?
>t. someone who never read Marx
No, actually I have, that's the funny thing.

>who is 'it'? Marx? He never said that
maybe.
lenin said that though and the vast majority of marxists are also leninists

>yuh like almost all important intellectuals and artists of the early 20th century right
Nobody knows or cares about what you are talking about

>We already live under tyranny so we may as well live under a system that's even more tyrannical

>Anyway, of course a normal discussion on Marx is not possible anymore on nu Veeky Forums.
Translation: I get btfo every time I discuss marx on Veeky Forums.

Try talking about marx on Veeky Forums, I'm sure they wont blow you the fuck out.

>disliking brutalism
How does it feel to have absolutely shit taste?

>the vast majority of marxists are also leninists
the OP is about CLASSICAL marxism, so not leninism

strawman

why do marxists still exist?

such an insane ideology and humans have much more accurate theories today

it's like how scientologists still exist.

>the OP is about CLASSICAL marxism, so not leninism
marx said he wanted an authoritarian state first

>Translation: I get btfo every time I discuss marx on Veeky Forums.
Not really. It's not possible getting btfo by people who have Wikipedia tier understanding of Marx's teachings. I am not a Marxist, but a conservative. I just lament the fact that Veeky Forums is dead because of the influx of brainless /pol/ memesters and /r/the_donald

>year 4.543 billion
>supports a shitty ideology
>not being an omnicidist

It's dying. Slowly but surely; just look at this thread.

>Not really.
yes really

marx is like L Hon Hubbard

You people are true believers that can't accept your ideology is a cult.

>but a conservative
highly doubtful

As automation increases and capital goods become cheaper, it will die.

It won't exist exist in 40 years.

It can't function without faggotry either apparently. Seriously though, whats up with that? Why is modern Marxism so closely associated with gay/trans/poc shit?

>Why is modern Marxism so closely associated with gay/trans/poc shit?
because marxism is a jewish ideology

Because these people are unstable and like to identify with the "underdogs". Marxism is only an underdog because it's dead though, in reality communist states were the last states in the developed world where gays went into Gulag.

Have you ever read neoclassical economic theory or contemporary sociology? They are all absolute embarrassments and liberal apologia, Marxist methodology blows them out of the water.

Your problem is that you take the most vulgarized and retarded interpretation of Marx and compare it with mainstream economics. Of course it's going to sound dumb. But let me tell you something shocking - Marxism is a huge field that has progressed in a million directions since Marx himself! Some have gone into stupid directions, such as identitarian feminism and race movements which have alienated a lot of people. On the other hand, some have elaborated fundamental Marxist concepts and provided empirical defense of the Labour Theory of value. Try books like Classical Econophysics or papers by Cockshott on economic calculation. Of course, you won't bother to examine these things because you are not even interested in a charitable reading of Das Kapital.

Seriously though, whats up with it? You'd have to be blind to not notice the pattern.

>this thread represents marxism as a whole in the world
...
>You people are true believers that can't accept your ideology is a cult.
Every ideology is a cult to some degree. The cult factor is of course much worse in fascist/traditionalist/monarchist whatever ideas, but yes, Marxism is indeed a cult. That does not mean that it does not carry some significant ideas worth studying, as should be expected from an intellectual. Instead you are just shouting nonsense without a basic understanding of Marx. A true intellectual engages with his enemies of thought, reads them, understands them. You just shout like a little baby because you have a vague political ideology, probably a cocktail of wikipedia entries on 'traditionalism' and some frog postings.

You're not fooling anyone. Whether or not Marx is a shit thinker does not take away your retarded behaviour. You should be ashamed of this anti-intellectualism.

As long as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it will exist.

at least someone has a brain on this board

>this thread represents marxism as a whole in the world

Ask 10 people in the street (the working class) if they're sympathetic towards Marxism. They won't even know what it is.

It's never going to happen dude. Give it up. It's dead.

Do you ever notice how actual leftists are always people who read lots of socioecomomic, including opposing viewpoints, while conservatives never read jack shit and want their worldview to be maximally simple and digestible as a Veeky Forums post?

I've actually noticed this phenomenon on both sides of the political spectrum. Fairly evenly as well.

>Veeky Forums
>/pol/
Shit.
LOL.

>art for art itself isn't important anymore

Surely that stance of marxism is anti-lit.

If you're not a communist you are a piece of shit that deserves the gulag. Seriously.

If you are a communist, you're a piece of shit who deserves to starve to death. Ergo all humans deserve to suffer and die.
/thread

Why would I starve to death? I'm not a petty kulak.

>communist's laud these more obscure failures as "success" stories in their internet memes
LMAO

It's a mix of wanting to rebel against mom and dad (Who most likely made their money through capitalism), being naturally lazy, thinking that Marxism is the underdog and identifying with that (let's be honest, if any of the three main ideology is the underdog st the moment it's fascism), and lack of understanding that in the Soviet Union if a crime was committed that looked like a gay person might have done it, ie. murder of a man of a sexual nature, your fag ass could be rounded up purely based on suspicion alone.

These days marxism is sour grapes from people who can't succeed in our capitalist utopia.

>the world is evil, bankers and oilmen conspire against chinese peasants and me (a suburban NEET living in his parent's basement) This is the reason I cannot get a job or a gf or be respected by the intelligentsia

think about it, most marxist theories, starting with Marx himself who never had a job or stable income of his own, are used to rationalize their own inadequacies.

>ad hominem against Marx
classy

The point being that everything we usually classify as non-material is explained in term of materiality that is, problems of distribution of resources and the means of their production.
It aims at solving social problems by solving material problems - namely, who and how should have the power of distributing resources.

Now, the underlying conception of the human being in this is that you find fulfillment in material things, and that there is nothing outside of it. You are shaped as a personality solely by your interaction with the material world, and satisfying your material needs is the aim/purpose of your life as well as of the structures of government.

How is this different from what I was saying?

And moreover, how do you not find this absolutely degrading for the human being?

Ad hominem but true unfortunately. Even as a Marxist myself I have to admit that I'm a fucking loser.

not just him, you as well

I find thee image funny because while it criticizes ayn rand for lac of expertise in economics and it goes on to criticize friedman for being an expert in economics.all the while missing the point that those people didn't live lives that contradicted everything they wrote.

in short classic middle school marxist banter. keep it coming bud

I saw that image on leftypol

By your logic, Nazi Germany was Socialist as well, despite being very Capitalistic and right-wing.

Venezuela was doing just fine until the CIA killed Chavez, and Cuba has remained one of the better Latin American countries to live in despite being the main target of US sabotage for almost 70 years now.

How was it not socialist? Capitalism was controlled by the state and the state promoted welfare for Germans. They were the first to do it.

National socialism and fascism are not 'right-wing' in the modern sense of the word - their policies were not about making the market more free and cut taxes on rich people, despite all the attempts you keep making in your imagination to associate the 'evil people' of the past with the 'evil people' of the present.

Well, surprise: this is not star wars, harry potter, or the lord of the rings. It's not an evil v. good movie, it's way more complex than that. Maybe stop being sixteen and cope with that.

Lol are cubans still driving in cara from the 50s? How is going their attempt to introduce a censored version of the internet for the first time?

Costa Rica and Chile are the best off latino american countries, and they got 2 different economical approches

This is such a retarded line of logic that I'm actually impressed. Of course most of the people who turn to Communism and point out issues with Capitalism are people who have been unsuccessful in that system; they're the one's most likely to recognise such issues. Those who have been successful is unlikely to criticise Capitalism precisely because they're successful. Being successful but also saying that Capitalism is unfair and unethical wouldn't really happen because success in Capitalism is usually a mix of luck, ruthlessness, and ego, which of course means those who are successful are much more inclined to place emphasis on their own actions within the system and ignoring any impacts the system itself may have had in your success and the failure of others. Anyone who is aware of the issues of Capitalism and has some sense of morality probably wouldn't be able to be successful just due to the fact that it'd have negative moral implications for them. But no, it has to fit your specific model because that model is the one that makes you feel better about yourself.

This thread is teaching me that people are evil.

How do you explain that every commie i knew and every shitbag that comments an antifascist meme on fb are rich "radical chic" socialists?

>all that time writing out something that proves my point when you could be filling out a job application
LMAO

Some of them are. Most of them drive Hyundais or Dongfengs. But yes, the embargo did establish a culture of car maintenance early on that hasn't died out. And yes, Chile is better off in many respects. Not so much Costa Rica, though. I didn't say Cuba was unbeatable, but they've maintained an incredible standard of living for the amount of meddling they've been subjected to. It's been far from the abject failure we've been shown on TV. Try watching a little less MSM, my man.