Veeky Forums question-answer thread

Rules 1 and 2 are only for /b/ newfag.

This isn't fucking /b/

well I say it is.

I'm trying to write every day, but it seems pretty difficult for me to get over the 3k word mark in a day.
The idea is there, the story is in my head, but just sitting down and writing for more than an hour and a half or two just sucks the energy out of me.

My current method is writing it all out over several days, then going back and proofing/improve one step at a time.

Is this normal? Am I just beating myself up because I have no measuring stick?

Nobody do writing maratons? At least for the first writing. The corrections and modifications would require more time.

How much does an average book writer that gets published actually make? I keep reading about guys that have real jobs, like I do, that publish fantasy. I feel like that's the way to go. I spend an hour late at night every week day typing. If I can't type something I type a setting, a character that could live in the world. World buildings, etc. I am in no hurry. I do it instead of video games now.

I am also under zero pressure. I think that is good too. I can fail something awful and still be incredibly happy.

BASED black man detected

>How to find the motivation to write and keep focused?
Develop the skills and the craft needed to fully express your inspirations. As long as writing is an obstacle, it won't be truly enjoyable, and for it to become natural you have to subject yourself to countless hours of, mostly, frustrating and tedious studying and practicing.

>If you get published and recognised someday, would you recognise that you're a Veeky Forums user?
Of course not.

t. Am a composer and a painter, I'm sure writing is the same when it comes to the learning process, the frustration of being unable of putting your ideas on paper, and the boredom that emerges from studying its components (grammar, lexicon, syntax, imagery and so on)

Study more, write more (without expecting to write a masterpiece, but while still putting lots of effort into it) and read more

I study a good amount because I am IT always looking to improve myself. I'm not sure what I should study to become a better writer. I have relatively little time as well.

>I don't

>No

I became an avid reader like three months ago and I can't stop. I stopped watching tv and I don't spend much time on Veeky Forums anymore.

Here's how I did it.

-Remember the average person reads like zero books a year. If you read 5 pages a day, you are 5 pages above the average person

-Don't force yourself to read. Commit to read 5 pages a day. I swear after three days you'll feel like reading more and after a month or so you should be reading 50-100 pages a day for pleasure

-Read various books at the same time. When I grab a difficult book or one that makes me sleepy I grab another and switch. This should refresh your head. Keep them thematically different. I read economics and fiction.

-It isn't a race. Reading slowly won't make you sleepy that fast. Try to acknowledge what books are for you to read fast and which aren't.

-Buy the physical copies. When you get the books from your own money you'll feel the need to read them to avoid the feel of wasting your money.

-Start with books highly discussed here so you feel motivated to discuss.

>I write (mostly, recently) first thing in the morning in the twilight time between being asleep to being fully awake, By writing right away I start the day off on a good note and I've ripped the band aid off. It's a lot easier to keep the momentum this way.

I wouldn't mention Veeky Forums because of all the shit associated with this site. I'd need to be 'fuck you' successful to do that.

>>How to find the motivation to write and keep focused?
Self-hate.
>>If you get published and recognised someday, would you recognise that you're a Veeky Forums user?
No.

What's the color/colors of war?

If I have never read proper literature before(only 2 introductory lit theory books, gene wolfe/jack vance), would I still enjoy and understand the themes/intricacies/end notes/what dfw means during the 1000 or so pages of infinite jest?
I am 19 and I am NEET, time isn't a problem I don't know what I'm planning to take away from this book mebbe just a few giggles but I want to see why it is so highly praised

Don't jump into lit with IJ you interminable faggot. It's not even that outstanding.

Honestly starting with IJ is pretty dangerous. You're at risk of becoming literarily lopsided, reading only relatively modern stuff. (IMO) IJ can be read after Borges, if you really want to read it.

I suggest Canterbury Tales --> Borges --> Iliad+Odyssea --> Don Quixote.

Canterbury Tales is very similar to any fiction you've ever read and will reassure you, because you will understand its themes. Borges is easy to read and will introduce the more showy/obviously "intellectual" parts of literature, while Homer will get you on the right track to Starting with the Greeks. And Don Quixote is there because it's also easy to understand (but amazing), and by this point the large size shouldn't put you off (I know it does some people).

This isn't some Start with the Greeks crawling list because I doubt many people ever actually stick to those, and I get the feeling they drive more people away than they help.

I threw up in my mouth a little

Unironically what is wrong with this.

It's genuine, sincere, and prudent advice.

What's the best way to get into William Gaddis?

Read his books.

Re: Motivation
Set a wordcount that you have to reach every day and stick to it. Advance the story. Writing is the process of re-writing. Trudge through the mediocre and get to the good, then preserve the good and change the mediocre. I did 4k a day for 5 days and it was pretty solid at the end, at least it could be reworked.

Re: Veeky Forums.

Due to the style of my writing and references, I think people would grasp the Veeky Forums influence without needing to be told. I would not go out of my way to say "IM ON THE 4chanz lulz", but if asked about it, I would say that I used to frequent /b/, /r9k/ (pre-frog-meme), /a/, Veeky Forums and /jp/.

Questions:

1) I feel the fantasy genre has become obsessed with perilous quests from the outset and that the tone is generally crisis oriented-- would any of you be interested in reading a story that is more positive, exploratory, and where there is no immediate threat at the outset, just adventures?

2) I am considering two works at the moment, one is similar to fallout but in a fantasy setting (apocalypse comes, everyone hid in vaults, they are repopulating the world now and learning the truth about the apocalypse). The focus is on fun adventures as the world is reclaimed before learning the truth tilts the story towards war and politics.

The other is a fantasy comedy about an Elf wizard who accidentally says a racist remark during his graduation speech, and is thus forced to go on a Sensitivity Quest with a mixed race team of adventurers including an alcoholic dwarf, an elf-fetishist knight, a kleptomaniac troll, and an obviously evil necromancer. Along the way they encounter stereotypical fantasy situations but approach them with modern sensibilities (i.e. the men hesitate to kiss sleeping beauty because "wouldn't that be kind of rapey" and thus get one of the chicks to do it, etc.)

Which of those sounds more interesting?

>How to find the motivation to write and keep focused?
1) Writing must be an habit for you, not a job, not a chore, not something exceptional either: a habit, something you do as naturally as having your daily stroll, or eating your dinner.
2) If you don't have something to say before you write, your writing won't be worth it.
3) Reading major books will always keep your mind on the edge.

>If you get published and recognised someday, would you recognise that you're a Veeky Forums user?
1) Why would you "recognise" anything, in what context, for what purpose?
2) Why do you see yourself as a "user" of Veeky Forums?
3) Why does it look like such a big deal to you?

>people would grasp the Veeky Forums influence without needing to be told

This tbqh. Just like Elliot Rodger's manifesto smelled "Veeky Forums" (and even "/r9k/") through every single page of his book. He didn't even need to mention us to be /ourguy/.

>Questions:
I would not read anything that could be described as "fantasy". However 1) sounds somewhat picaresque; and the second story from 2) sounds obviously more interesting and "current" than your banal first story.

Is Fitzgerald's allusion to Pergamon in line 614 of his Iliad a revisionist insertion? I can't find any other reference to it being attributed to Apollo online, and even the two predominant theories attribute it primarily to Athena which seems like a grave misrepresentation on Fitzgerald's part.

*Book 4, Line 614

Nah, writing comes naturally to me since it requires no skills beyond the ability to read and write. Unlike music and painting, which take years of practice to perfect to the point where its playable in a piece, or paintable in a passable form, anyone can pick up a pen and write. Of course, one's writing gets better over time as one writes more, but most people "know" whether or not they are writers, since they have likely already been writing since before they could remember it. Actual writers feel no pressure to create, we do it when the creation comes to us.

>The corrections and modifications would require more time.
That's what I figure, but I presumed that it was a phase after finishing the initial story.
I'm curious if I run the danger of producing a less fleshed out and developed story by unintentionally rushing through, and then not spotting areas to improve on the backtrack.

But I also plan to have my other writer friends go over it with me at that phase, so maybe they'll notice things I overlook.
Also
>Writing marathons
I legitimately don't know what this entails. Is it like when I hear about authors hiding themselves away in a cabin for a week and just writing?

Gold (For Bullets)
Red (For Blood)
Black (For Death)
Unless it's japanese, then White (For Death)

she is so perfect, why did she have to fuck an ape for money

>unabashedly spouting this Truman Capote horseshit
Technique and Style are inseparable elements of the same general desire for Aesthetic. That writing is physically simple is meaningless; painting, when reduced to precisely measured brushstrokes, is equally as simple, as is the playing of instruments. Writing merely lacks the immediately rewarding experience of self-improvement, which places it outside of the interest of most people, especially at their developmental age when they are most likely to experiment with self-expression when lacking technique. To claim that writing is a particularly latent talent is ridiculous and masturbatory; several of the greatest historical authors did not touch pen or paper until far into their adulthoods, as is the same with all forms of expression.

The greatest enemy to learning an art is to remind oneself that Mike Oldfield published Tubular Bells at 19 years old. "Talent" is just code for "I practiced this when nobody was looking"

All the colours of the rainbow.

1) Something like "The Hobbit"? You know, Good vibrations, fun adventures, beautiful landscapes, friendship... I would read it.

2) Both are interesting. That fantasy comedy would be even funnier in a realistic context (Random guy's graduation speech, unfortunate choice of words, Sensitivity Quest, muh patriarchy, muh transgender mutilation is ok, muh new feminist religion).

>I legitimately don't know what this entails.
Brainstorming and writing non-stop until you have something nice. You will forget about it for some weeks, and then rewrite it again, correcting what doesn't fit at all.

We should make some kind of Veeky Forums Marathing Challenge, in order to force ourselves to keep writing.

>Black (For Death)
>Red (For Blood)
>Gold (For Bullets)
wew lad

Yea but I don't "practice my writing", i just continue to write. So many famous authors publish at young ages because they're just like me. I don't think you understand. Yes there have been writers who began in their late 20s, their 30s, 40s, etc. But most start at a very young age, and all they use to practice is expression. I've met people who, while being great scholars, have to meter out and manipulate every individual sentence; who have to stick to a plan and create an outline before they begin. Honestly I didn't "practice my style" it developed on its own; since writing is such an unfettered medium, where the only constraints are the limits of concious cognition. I'm not saying its impossible, its more like someone who starts playing the piano at age 6 vs. age 17. With enough practice, the 17 year old could eventually surpass the skills of the 6 year old for a time, but the 6 year old may then learn the exact same skills and become even more talented in a much shorter span of time. I never have dreams of becoming a great musician, or a great painter, or a great photographer. So why should someone with no knack for writing have dreams of becoming a great writer? Its unrealistic. Not saying its impossible, its never impossible to win the lottery.

*Didn't mean just like me, that sound egotiscal, more like "I learned just like them".

>Yea but I don't "practice my writing", i just continue to write.
Semantics: if you don't publish it you may as well consider it an exercise.

>Honestly I didn't "practice my style" it developed on its own
Are you a great author? Because if you aren't your experience doesn't really matter (well, it does, but not in this conversation).

>since writing is such an unfettered medium, where the only constraints are the limits of concious cognition.
This does not mean that everything written is equal in value: the aesthetic component of writing does not rely on its conceptual content, and instead has its foundations in the craft, which is something that can and should be studied. No great author refuted my last statement.

>With enough practice, the 17 year old could eventually surpass the skills of the 6 year old for a time, but the 6 year old may then learn the exact same skills and become even more talented in a much shorter span of time.
This is true only if the older writer embraces the same exact path the ypunger one picked.
Bach started studying counterpoint formally when he was 6, Beethoven did it when he was 22, with terrible results (it took him a decade to become proficient), but since his path was so different from Bach's one this delay does not really matter.
Still, in both cases formal training was the keystone for success (without it talent would have been meaningless for both of them).

>So why should someone with no knack for writing have dreams of becoming a great writer? Its unrealistic. Not saying its impossible, its never impossible to win the lottery.
Dante died when he was 56. If you start in your 20s and manage to live until you're 76, then your previous excuse won't hold: compared to most great authors, we have enough years to reach them even if we start extremely late, thanks to medical advancement and extended life spans.

Pick a pen and a sheet of paper and start writing, don't aim for mediocrity.

>you can be as good as Shakespeare if you try rly rly hard lol

If writing is your passion you can only give it a shot: every other path will inevitably lead to regret.

Even Shakespeare used to be an amateur.

Let's reverse that.

You can't be like Shakespeare if you don't try really really hard.

Fine, it's improbable that you will be hailed for anything, even if you try your best, become "successful", etc-- we live in a really cynical age. You'll still be slandered and people will point out all of your flaws. Any praise you receive will be drowned out by the "me-too" apathy and pretentious nonchalance that embodies our age. So what?

What is it with writers and this obsession with becoming "successful" and influential? I'm sure artists in other fields also feel like that but writers seem to be the most obsessed with leaving a legacy and being remembered, what Bolaño called "fear of the footstep that leaves no trail".

Well, largely because if you do not become successful as a writer you will not eat. A good violinist can work for a symphony, a good artist can work in graphic design, a good but not "successful" writer has a dismal future in comparison.

Ad-copy is a horrific destiny for a storyteller. The only way to make storytelling sustainable is to gain the economic means for continuance of the story. Scheherazade is kind of a metaphor-- if our audience doesn't want more, we lose it all.

>What is it with writers and this obsession with becoming "successful" and influential?

It's usually just one aspect of their desire: after all no one here even considered the idea of dumbing their art down to become more successful. People don't want to become just famous, they want that fame through the merit of their sincere art. i don't think this sentiment is dangerous, as long as the art remains sincere, insightful and deliberate.

mfw

Are commercial writers (those who don't even try to write something of value) our worst enemy?

Are there any resources I can use to learn style? Style tips such as when to start a new paragraph, how to format dialogue, etc.

please and thank

As long as you have access to books and the ability to read then I don't see why you'd need much else.

I did not mean commercially successful, more like highly praised and remembered for generations to come.
It seems to me that most sculptors just want to make the most beautiful piece out of a block of marble, but writers want (or need) not only to excel formally but also to be included in the canon.

Nah, it's the same across all the arts, in virtually every moment of our history. Michelangelo was as interested in his fame as that user is.

Yes. There are many books on style, I would start with Sin and Syntax and the Elements of Style. Are they the best guides ever? No, but they straightforwardly provide a foundation.

After that, the best thing would be to find analyses of style for some good examples of successful execution. Then try executing every technique yourself until they are no longer cheesy.

Your voice is kind of your own thing, but you can develop it, sharpen it, and subtly change it. So experiment as much as possible. Try mimicking the voices of others too-- sometimes I will pick up the style of another person and it's kind of fun to emulate them a bit.

Money, duh

Well, I think that's because of the degree of presence.

When you create a beautiful sculpture, there is an artifact. When you play a beautiful piece, there is noise. You have confirmation of the existence of what you did that is projected into the physical/sensational world.

Words do not have that degree of projection and their reality can only be felt through the recognition and comprehension of others. There are no statues and there is no symphony, there are only confirming perceptions and judgments.