Is university a scam?

>teaching is dog shit even in STEM subjects
>free online lectures are unironically better than anything taught in prescribed books or by professors
>most courses horrendously have a theoretical bias, with very limited real world applications
>no guarantee you'll even get a decent job after you graduate unless you're a normie with 1000 friends or president of the feminist society
>when most students don't get a job after graduation they apply for Masters and PhD degrees
>after that, they unironically go back into teaching at the very same establishments that filled them with false hope
>have to pay tens of thousands of $ to justify above

Well Veeky Forums? Seems like unless you're a literal genius or lucky enough to make 300k starting straight after graduation, most people are stuck in an endless feedback loop that keep these parasitic establishments alive.

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US colleges sounds like shit

It is.

In my country if you do CS from a top 20 college, you're guaranteed a comfy job well paying job. So not a scam if you do that.

> free online lectures are unironically better than anything taught in prescribed books or by professors
Share some lectures senpai

Universities are a business before they are a place of higher learning. The resources to attain the same knowledge you could get a from a degree exist elsewhere but you just wont get that piece of paper employers seek so desperately.

The internet caught all the old masters off guard.

money-wise it's pretty shit but you simply don't have access to the kind of shit you do at a uni by other ways of learning
uni is really only really worth it if you fuxing ace high school and get scholarships and tryhard shit like that

I love being Danish holy shit

In the West everybody goes to university so it's worth nothing. It's basically just a bare minimum and the price keeps going up and up for some reason.

KU eller DTU?

KU
Niels Bohr Institute

desu khan academy isn't bad, I took a quick intro to java on there and it was nice

In the USA I can safely say that nearly all colleges/universities are indeed a complete scam now. I don't know which ones are not scams or partial scams. This happens because students need to pay for their education. A culture developed around student loans, grants, and scholarships. As such, exorbitant prices for classes has become the norm. Even textbooks are now fully integrated into sucking money from students. Instead of being able to buy a used book for a class, you have to buy a new book every year because the previous year's book isn't used. Then while you are actually physically in class, you are not taught anything and instead merely watch some old fart's lecture. This last part would be great if high school actually taught students how to study and be self-reliant with their studies, but that simply does not happen. high school is rigidly structured where college has no structure at all in comparison.

The only time you can hope to learn something actually being taught in a college/university is to major in areas where hands on work is needed. Such as carving up a cadaver for medical school, making food in a culinary school, or welding pipe joints in a trade school.

>muh free online lectures
Look at the brainlet.

>get assraped by taxes and the nanny-state
Education is not actually expensive in the US after you factor in the higher wages, lower taxes and low student loan interest rates. In addition, if you are at all clever, scholarships and stipends will be handed to you, further reducing the cost of education.

Socialism benefits the plumber and waitress - not you.

>Education is not actually expensive in the US after you factor in the higher wages, lower taxes and low student loan interest rate
are you retarded or just trolling? two generations ago, US students could pay for college by working minimum wage jobs. now they are saddled with enough debt to buy a house.

That very much depends on their choice of school and field of study. A gifted youngster will pay next to nothing for an education at any top university, while an engineering student will have a debt of - at most - an odd 50 thousand dollars at the end of his/her studies.

Mediocre students, who receive minimal grants, scholarships and stipends, are rarely those who gain acceptance to expensive ivy league schools or medical schools. Dummies with loaded parents buying themselves into expensive schools is not representative of costs related to higher education in general. Food for thought.

this is tautological, your definition of gifted is someone who gets a free ride
scholarships are much less prevalent than they used to be because 1) student loans are more profitable and 2) student loans have driven tuition costs up. and fwiw I know plenty of talented people who didn't get full scholarships.
>$50000 debt is NOTHING!
okay so you're just retarded

in many ways, yes. but some jobs require boxes to be ticked. at the end of the day you're teaching yourself anyway. access to facilities is decent i guess. it's more of a social thing in ways i guess; look at me guise, i'm quite the elite

Universities are instuitions where you learn skills that don't involve manual labor. A college degree doesn't make someone as competitive as they would like because there are ten other people who have the same set of skills that you do- so you need things like internships and work experience to make yourself competitive. University isn't where you "live the life of the mind," employers don't think of you as some sort of intellectual they absolutely /need/ to hire. They look for skills that are going to be useful to them.

huge fucking scam

they fill plans of study with bullshit classes to make it simply take longer
>required social sciences
>required environmental studies
>required english bullshit

Capitalism made everyone head up to universities because of the illusion that majoring is way more relevant to society than any other job out there (and thus should be paid higher amounts of money).

btw
>most courses horrendously have a theoretical bias
not inherently wrong

everyone goes to university, but not everyone goes to the same univeristy. A degree from Harvard or Imperial holds more value and credit than a degree from a bottom 500 university

Most state unis run at a cost upwards of 22k /year just in tuition.

If you're middle class, you don't get grants. If you're average, you get around 3k in scholarships / year. So you're still looking at nearly 80k for a state uni.

The best solution is to stop perpetuating "everyone needs a degree" meme. It's not true and has driven up costs.

>Imagine being American

Oh no no hahahahhaha

youtube.com/watch?v=uTLM_iEcVdA&list=PLDesaqWTN6ESk16YRmzuJ8f6-rnuy0Ry7&index=26

>Is university a scam?
yes

Unironically memecoins have helped me pay off my whole 3rd year after transfer, 130k cs degree soon, almost feel bad for you sci cucks.

kill yourself copenhipster

You can learn anything on youtube

need a full course on EE? just look at MIT courseware or yale open courseware

There is one issue though:

how do you tell your 'employer' you actually 'know it'? cant just say 'yeah I spent 1000 hours on youtube...

50 000 USD is nothing over a lifetime, when the marginal tax rate in your most socialist democrat-led shithole is almost 50% lower than marginal tax rate.

t. finnfag
>So you're still looking at nearly 80k for a state uni.
You´ll still come out ahead after less than 10 years in the workforce when lower taxes have been taken into account.

Whiteboard interviews.

Yea, I'm just saying that ivy league costs and full rides aren't representative of the entire economics, and can never be.

No its incredibly fucking expensive. The fees they charge are completely outrageous. I'm planning on finishing my bachelor's degree and than getting a masters degree from a nonshit shit hole country like Germany. You conservatards are turning this country into fucking Brazil I don't want any part in it.

>t. finnfag
So you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. They don't give very many scholarships and most jobs pay shit here. No stem isn't bulletproof. Most stem degrees also have trash salaries and and horrible job outcomes like every other degree here. People continue to go to school here because work is a living fucking nightmare here otherwise. I hope retards like you don't ruin your country falling for dumb ass memes.

>$50k tuition isn't expensive

>free online lectures are unironically better than anything taught in prescribed books or by professors
Not really. They're just good at charming people like you.

sendvid.com/324hdou9

Because of life I have had to be in and out of college for the last few years. First college was so impacted I couldn't get my classes so I wasted two years on useless classes. Second college had dumb requirements that I had to take before doing my major but I got through them and got a lot done.
My third college has been very trying. I am almost done with my major but the work load they expect you to do is impractical and useless. No one has a job because you can't have one. I have to work so I can eat. This term I got kicked out of my classes because I got the bad flu and missed 2 weeks of school even though I had a doctor's note. The classes I was taking are only offered this term so I have to wait another year to take them.
I am starting to think my college is a scam or for rich, young kids and that I am wasting my time and money. I am thinking about giving up and going to a community college to get a trade where I am guaranteed a job.
Sorry for the blog post, just sharing my wasted time and debt filled life.
t.chemistry

Fucking stupid boomer

From a STEM student, I went to second tier state school and currently doing a PhD. Everything is paid for by the university for me. Plan on working for pharmaceutical company after finishing.
>tfw haven't wasted tens of thousands
>tfw most undergraduate don't think long term but only short term

>and most jobs pay shit here.
They pay much better than comparable jobs here.
> No stem isn't bulletproof.
It´s as close to bulletproof as it gets.
>Most stem degrees also have trash salaries and and horrible job outcomes like every other degree here.
You are not American, are you?
>People continue to go to school here because work is a living fucking nightmare here otherwise.
People educate themselves to attain a more demanding and - usually - better paying job.
>. I hope retards like you don't ruin your country falling for dumb ass memes.
Retarded socialists already ruined my country, and now they´re on the fast track to ruin yours.

This isn't true for accredited courses.
t. Arup recruitment

yes. academics numbfucks got this country into ruin. Kill them all, burn down the universities. burn the courts. start again by killing everyone who says they want to be a lawyer. spread the word all lawyers and lawyer wannabes will be killed by the gods

University feels like a scam when you're studying in a shit uni. I know this because I studied in a shitty one and the classes were dreadful. Now I'm a decent uni and both the students and teachers actually care and it's not a bad experience.

Lol you sound like every normie who has ever taken one math class and gotten frustrated. Citing "MUH REAL-WORLD APPLICATION" isn't valid because many of the "theoretical" things you learn are precursors to actual concepts you can apply. Take differential equations for example. How can you solve something like the harmonic oscillator (as a basic example) without knowing the theory behind the mechanics?

You also seem to have a gross misunderstanding of how to obtain a job after your degree or why people even choose to go to graduate school. Truly, the world works on the people you know rather than what you know, but you get to know people while you do your degree. If you haven't branched out and attended a job fair, attended a conference or two, gone to an internship, connected with professors, or participated in research, then you have just spent four years in college attached to a cement block. If you want to get a PhD, then you are pretty much committed to advancing your field of study (or related fields).

Personally, the money is secondary to me. I am currently pursuing a PhD and while it is nice to imagine a life where I get $300k starting, I would be fine with $50k and traveling as long as I get to do what I love.

If you want that kind of high paying job and you haven't taken any of the steps I mentioned previously, then you are in for a rough time.

I actually got paid to go to school last year, as in, my financial aid exceeded my costs for everything. The best schools in the country will literally pay for EVERYTHING, and when you get selected for scholarships etc it's just icing on the cake.

If you are attending a private university that doesn't do need blind admissions and full financial aid packages you are too stupid to reproduce. If you are attending a public university because you were too stupid or too lazy to do well in school, why on earth should someone pay for your education?

why do you need to make 300k when you have at least 60 years of life ahead of you? spoiled retard

>"It's your fault!"

>make 300k
>work for 3 years
>retire
>never work again and instead conduct research

>what is tax, rent etc?
It's funny how by the time you reach your mid-20s you already realize how retarded 18 year olds are.

here we go a guy who says 300k is not enough for rent kys

Government is taking 1/3 of that so you'll have 200k p/a and you want to stop working after 3 years so you'll have 600k to last for 60 years, that's 10k p/a. Enjoy the ghetto.

with 600k you could spend ~24k a year which is definitely enough

you could also work for a few extra years if you wanna spend more

>for some reason
the availability of loans without any sort of discrimination as to what actual potential you have

>Capitalism
But isn't the socialist government giving out loans to unproductive members of society that decide majoring in gender studies ?

>the chad online lecturer vs the virgin university teacher

If you only want to make money why on earth would you go to a university and get a job lol. Even if you were making a million dollars a year that's not real wealth.

>Retarded socialists already ruined my country, and now they´re on the fast track to ruin yours.
No retarded conservatives like you ruined my country and your on the fast track to ruining your own. I hope no one else where you live is as moronic and sheltered as you are. You have absolutely no idea how it works here. No our taxes are not super low. Our jobs do not pay high enough to make up for the complete lack of a social safety net. We don't not have a "Socialist" problem here. Which is incredibly idiotic idea if you know anything about the history of this country. It has basically been illegal to be a communist here from the 1950s until the soviet union collapsed. When social democrats held positions of power here we had a higher standard of living, no deficit and were a better country. We turned into a third world shit hole when meme libertarian fuckwits like you gained power in the 70s. The only reason you can spout such ignorant views is because of the sheltered life you have thanks to European and Finnish leftists. You're just a spoiled brat that doesn't know how things actual work outside of your nanny state.

Socialists don't give loans so no it wouldn't be the Socialist government. In a socialist country you'd go to college for free just like you have free health care.

The only thing university has done for me ever since I entered is induce anxiety, and burn out, making me constantly question myself if I had made the right choice for my major.

yes, but its the next best thing that they can do. A capitalist society wouldn't give loans to students that will never be able to pay it back

BTFO.

>A capitalist society wouldn't give loans to students that will never be able to pay it back
Yes they would because you can make massive amounts of money on the interest. Which is the only thing capitalist care about dumbass. Social Democrats would cut the military budget and invest in students. Socialists would make all education free. Loans aren't free or close to free you have to pay that money back with interest.

education is a meme dumbass

everything you learned at an american university you can learn on your own by reading a book on the subject in a week or two instead of a year

this fucking meme shouldnt be accessible to students

Yes, OP is giving every indication that he's in a bad situation, and he's also giving off several tells that it's his own fault. What's your point?

In the US? Yes. Even if you go STEM. The only way you're gonna make it is go to a rich private, suck off some rich kid, join his frat, and then land a comfy job at his Dad's company.

t. spoiled babby rich kid

fuck I wish I could be there the moment you realize how the world actually works

It's called CS user learn to do it then you will actually be making money in return for your degree

Now you're just moving the goal post. We weren't talking about how valid American education was. We were talking about if it was capitalist or not in its current form. Which it is.

>fuck I wish I could be there the moment you realize how the world actually works

He never will. He lives in a nice nanny state. His grandchildren probably will if a lot of morons share his views in his country right now. Then he'll bitching and moaning about how entitled they are.

Well i was speaking about UK education

Just think of it as paying for an evaluation of skill.
You have to pay for IQ tests.
Git gud at being a parasite. Make money from selling false hope to people just like religion does.
There are suckers born every minute. If you don't take advantage of them then somebody else will.

>go to CS uni with a great reputation
>costs 220€ each semester
>do a master's which mostly consists of letting others do the work for me
>no problem getting an overpaid programming job afterwards
Feels good to not be American

here is a simple flow chart to follow for university

1. "What do you want to be, what career interests you?"
2. "Does said job/career require a certification?"
>If no. Then do independent research, read books and engage in independent study.
3."Does certification require a college education/college credits?"
>If no, then engage in independent study until you feel confident to take certification. Ex: A+ certification
>If yes, then proceed to college ex: teaching, becoming a lawyer, or therapist (masters level)


The main reason why university doesn't seem to be worth it anymore is because back before the height of the internet, the only place you could seemingly go to learn about subjects and discuss them with a bunch of like-minded peers was university.
But now the internet and people that believe that information and education should be free have put a bunch of learning tools online and even forums where ideas can be exchanged.
So if you were smart at all you'd want to go to college anyways to be with a bunch of like minded individuals.

of course there are pratt falls. In that some enterprising people knew how much of a racket college is so set up diploma mills, and fake[i.e. unaccredited] universities an the like. Which tarnished the ivory towers reputation.

so now you have a bunch of old ideas still infecting the youth of today, that to be worth anything you need college etc.. but we are finding that isn't really the case anymore.

you know a portfolio is a huge thing to develop for your professional career.
and portfolios are just for artists.
If you have independant EE study, then an employer is going to expect that you
know theory
and have applied said theory on a working prototype/product.

if an engineer of anything doesn't show me a portfolio I know he was a shitty, and unpassionate about his field.

Worrying about wasted time is more wasted time. Good luck, user.

Which is also ruthless capitalism. Everyone knows the UK is almost as much of a shit hole as the US is. Anglos are a bunch of bootlicking pussies.

fuck you i hope you die

>teaching is dog shit even in STEM subjects
Honestly if your teachers are shit, it's because your uni is shit.

>Implying an anglo pussy would ever hurt anyone
Don't you have a job creators cock to suck or something? Does the queen need someone to wipe her ass?

Connections are everything thats what these universities dont tell you.

Oldfag here. When I taught, my first lecture was on study methods and expectations. I always put 1 copy of the textbook on reserve at the library. Free for students as long as they studied in the reserve room.

Most students ignored the lecture and did the bare minimum. The free textbook was never lent out (I checked. ) Teachers can give you the knowledge, but it's up to you to put forth the effort. Ask questions. Discuss.

You're paying to be there. So be there.

did you tell anyone the textbook was there?

>>most courses horrendously have a theoretical bias, with very limited real world applications
So you wanna become a Plumber, Carpenter, Bricklayer, Car Mechanic or Wireman?
Instead of becoming a Scientist or Engineer?

Then go on and drop out.

Good luck working in Mc Donalds while your technician jobs is automated by robots

Yah idk why anyone who isn't rich or smart and have scholarships, it might still be a waste of time but at least it won't cost money. Though I'm about to be taking out loans myself because my family is imbeciles

its more like a pyramid scheme than a scam. a scam has a certain definition where one never gets the benefits.


some get the benefits, like lawyers, doctors, engineers

No if anything it was civil rights that caused the university scam boom.
Employers are not allowed to hire based on IQ tests so they have to rely on your piece of paper from a 4-year debt farm.

The solution is to no longer make postgraduate programs require a bachelors degree, but instead to take a long and suffering exam to prove that you actually know the contents of that specific undergraduate degree. So if you want to study advanced algebraic topology at a postgraduate level (say as an honours course or masters degree) you don't need a bachelors majoring in mathemtics, but you have to take a long exam proving you know the preliminaries of most areas of mathematics (abstract algebra, multivariate calculus, real analysis etc.)

>while your technician jobs is automated by robots
Their usefulness by number of domains will rise exponentially. Retail will be one of the first jobs they replace, plumbing one of the last.

Professor Leonard for math on youtube

>its more like a pyramid scheme than a scam

bingo.

and the ultimate black pill: life itself is one giant pyramid scheme

More like civilization is pyramid scheme. It always falls apart when the old don't give the young any reason to put themselves in the meat grinder. Which we're seeing now.