What are some good books on the topic of toxic masculinity...

It's a self-reflective thing.

Well, an example I would say is the fact that men aren't supposed to share their feelings and that leads to trouble. It's "unmanly" to do certain things even though it's normal to humanity.

My Twisted World

It's usually defined by scholars as "men stronger than me" or "men that don't care about feminism."

Aren't most classics about this?

Like, the Iliad is basically the alpha male Achilles realizing that revenge isn't worth it. Same thing with The Tain, and Beowulf - it's Chad Thundercock wondering if there's more to life than just fuckin and stabbin

fucking white males

their "wisdom" is toxic
they need to shut up and listen to the female perspective on war and revenge

It is manly to express emotion. True toxic masculinity is the subjugation and vilification of women, just as toxic feminimity is the counterpart with equal intents. It is not an issue of masculinity as seen in say, wrestling, or action films, where there is a clear hero and a sense of moral justice, (there is often a villain in wrestling, as it is essentially a stage show) No, the real issue rests in the concepts that cause a total objectification of women, a demand to destroy the fellow man, fury without any attempts at reason. Those are in no way truly masculinity in reality, but have gained that moniker, in truth, they are simply evils. Same with toxic feminimity, the said counterpart. They are simply terms assigned in ignorance. I would leave such a concept in the dust where it belongs, if I were you. Realize and understand there is no use for such a term. Estranging masculinity is to estrange one branch of the duality of humanity. a disorder none of us are prepared for.

Not even trolling, OP. You need to come to terms with your homosexuality, and learn to accept and express yourself in a healthy way. As you work on that your deep seated bitterness and anger will begin to recede. You are currently projecting your feelings of disappointment in yourself and failure as a man onto society, which is much in vogue right now, but exclusively ends in personal tragedy for all but a select few useful idiots.

Best of luck!

I do not support third wave feminism, but one must admit when men are not allowed to show their feelings, when they must always be strong, tall, have a big dick, be leaders, be good at sex, and a lot of other stuff that not every male can possibly have, it causes a lot of unneeded strife. Sure, it's good to have goals like being confident and healthy, but when you have to have things out of your control, is it not illogical? When we insult each other by using insults such as pussy, are we not saying that the thing a man least wants to be is a female? I understand that there is biology we cannot change, and I understand calling all men rapists and making safe spaces will not solve this, but can we not agree at least some of these expectations of men are toxic? If a woman can do things I cannot, is that not a double standard?

Problem is every time I share my feelings I end up, almost without exception, regretting it. No one gives a fuck about my feelings.

you need to find better people. some people are shitty, you know.

Nice buzzword

are you implying that women don't have meaningful insights on themes like war, even though they aren't directly involved in it?

Not that guy, but even if women were a key part of the history of warfare (reproduction and raising children before, working the factories more recently), no one will ever know better how it feels to get stabbed in the asshole than the person who actually gets stabbed in the asshole i.e. men 99% of the time.

>Well, an example I would say is the fact that men aren't supposed to share their feelings and that leads to trouble. It's "unmanly" to do certain things even though it's normal to humanity.

Why does it lead to trouble? Why is sharing feelings "normal to humanity" ? Can you backup these statements with anything concrete?

What if I don't want to hear about your feelings? What if I find hearing about them tedious and embarrassing?

Have you ever wondered if the female propensity to share feelings might have less to do with cultural roles and more to do with the hormone estrogen?

my diary desu

>What are some books that explain why I should feel bad about wanting what I want?
Beyond Good and Evil, it really roasts those big schoolyard meanies.

>understanding and, dare I say, sensitive men
You don't dare say. That's just the thing. Men like you keep their mouths shut entirely of their own limpdick accord.

>Why does it lead to trouble?
Other men, acting the part of the masculine identity, tear down those who share their emotions.
>Why is sharing feelings "normal to humanity"
Social creatures, hardwired empathy etc...
>Can you backup these statements with anything concrete?
No more than the counter-position. Such is the life of the philosophe.
>What if I don't want to hear about your feelings? What if I find hearing about them tedious and embarrassing?
That's fine and normal. Taking on someone's emotional load is tough, and you would probably only want to do it for a friend or partner. If, in that case, you still think of tedium and embarrassment, well, refer to 1) and examine yourself.
>Have you ever wondered if the female propensity to share feelings might have less to do with cultural roles and more to do with the hormone estrogen?
Nonsense.

are you female

No. I often find that when someone asks me how I am doing and I answer more than the expected, "good" that the other party finds it annoying. Why ask if you don't want to know?

It's a social convention. Getting all bent out of shape about it is adolescent.

Self restraint has serious value, I don't really get what's so offensive about this idea. A man who gives vent to his every emotion is not free of them, he is enslaved by them. If you're incapable of controlling yourself, you're no better than an animal.

We are animals, you fool.

Rosenberg, Dugin, Nazi's in General...

Nor do we want it.

Good post!

That's because when someone asks you how you're doing, 9 times out of 10 that's a courtesy statement and not a question, and they get annoyed with your misinterpretation

Why not just say hello then?

Because of social convention, as someone said previously. The usage (and your misinterpretation) of the phrase is in no way grounded in "toxic masculinity".

>influenced 'the kindly ones' by jonathan littel

>excerpt

Ahh, sry.
Totally not connected to toxic masc,
But ok...social conventions are.good, but if u ask something, dont go sour if.someone.replies.
Just say hello and you are ok.
When I.ask something I expect an answer.
Social conventions cannot be separate from reality.

Leonard Michaels' "The Men's Club".

I spent half my senior year at highschool studying this filth, the other half was racism. It was such an experience that it completely threw me off further academic study of literature. Modern literature is saturated with these poisonous, political ideas with seemingly no escape. My teachers were completely consumed in their efforts to instill a sense of almost smug superiority and self contented pity into the students over fictional anecdotes of broken men. It was disgusting.

>when someone asks me how I am doing and I answer more than the expected, "good" that the other party finds it annoying. Why ask if you don't want to know?
Because they want to hear "Good" in response, not publish a scientific paper on the life of a hopeless autist (i.e. thou).

If you absolutely need to tell them it's not good, then get to the point and quickly say: "Not good.", and tell the whole story only if and when asked for details, as they usually do but they don't always have the time.

All you have to do to survive such social encounter was to follow their instructions, yet you're so retarded as to live your entire existence without ever noticing this.

No, your problem is not located in other people's Y chromosome.

What tripe.

this makes me want to start shooting random people

Which is...?

Toxic masculinity is SUPPOSED to mean
>The societal conception of manhood causing harm to men, because it is unfeasible or casts important physical and emotional needs as trivial
but dumbass Salon columnists usually just toss it out at any (presumed) man who does something they don't like.

Basically, is the best post in the thread and addresses ACTUAL problems of toxic masculinity fantastically. Everyone else is arguing over a misuse of the term.

>just listen to people who don't even know what they're talking about
I'm not a Canadian.

toxic masculinity everyone

Seriously, if you want a book about masculinity that isn't Gronk tier...Iron John by Robert Bly

Why isn't Toxic Femininity a thing?

Watch an episode of the Kardashians sometime.

>doesn't understand what toxic masculinity is

Toxic Femininity is basically the same thing as Toxic Masculinity. Damage inflicted on the self through trying to adhere to societal definitions of how one should act or look based on their genitals.
Both basically deal with
>Body image issues
>Dangerous attempts to change that image (eating disorders/steroids)
>Not supposed to enjoy ______
>Not supposed to do ______
>Not supposed to talk about _____

Homophobia is an example of toxic masculinity.
>"Being gay is bad. As a man if I do anything that could be seen as gay by others they'll think I'm bad. Gotta try REAL hard to not look gay!"

The decline in homophobia within the general male population has been linked to more men saying that they have emotionally intimate and healthy relationships with their bros. Homophobia was stopping dudes from talking to each other about their more intimate emotional shit and problems their having because thats some gay shit.

Toxic Masculinity.

typical women logic. Everything that's wrong with women is because of men, so lets just called toxic femininity toxic masculinity, because it's the same thing.

>Because they want to hear "Good" in response, not publish a scientific paper on the life of a hopeless autist (i.e. thou)
That was funny

"Toxic masculinity" is a way to say "opinionated strong man" and that's it to be honest.

Leftists and SJWs have destroyed Veeky Forums.

Get some reading comprehension. Same mechanism, different concepts.

Neither is necessarily seen the other sex's fault, just society in general's.

No it's a way to say "you're fixation on *being SEEN* as a strong man is fucking up your ability to connect with other human beings."

I bet you don't even give your bros kisses.

Yeah
>thread #35 on intersectional cuntqueer literature
>muh toxic masculinity
>"humm go back to /pol/ XD"
Fuck this shit

Then the problem isn't masculinity isn't it? But wanting to be seen in a certain way.

Nah, maybe it was supposed to be like that but now it's more "if you don't like taking big cocks inside your ass you're saad and you're living your life wrong" and you know it

Except that's completely wrong you fucking retard.
The more homophobic a culture, the more dare the men to be close with each other because they don't worry about being seen as gay (why should they worry about being seen as gay? Because it's harmful and disgusting).
In Slavic or Islamic countries men are much less afraid to be physical with each other because being gay is simply not seen as an option.
Look at some photographs of male friends from the 19th century.

>Then the problem isn't masculinity isn't it?
Correct. Masculinity is defined as "possession of the qualities traditionally associated with men."

Thats fine. Toxic masculinity is just a term for what goes down when being masculine becomes more important than being a human being. Milk is fine. Rotten milk isn't.

>But wanting to be seen in a certain way.
Self-image is part of it too. Get me? Toxic masculinity is like having body dysmorphia.

Men aren't supposed to sit around and drink tea and talk about their feelings like bitches on their period. Any tendency toward such behaviour ought to be crushed. For the good of society, and women and men themselves.
Going against nature never ends up well.

People use words wrong all the time. It doesn't make the word retarded, it makes the people using it wrong retarded.

You are an absolute retard. Gender has nothing to do with this pathology, the abstract identity people pick for themselves is irrelevant, what matters is the picking itself.

>the abstract identity people pick for themselves is irrelevant, what matters is the picking itself.
what are you talking about. like i'm just asking you to clarify, because it sounds like you're bringing transgender shit into this.

>Going against nature never ends up well.
Humans have been fucking nature in the ass for the last 300 years. Who gives a fuck?

>just society in general's.
meaning the patriarchy...

>being a human being
haha, have you seen the way human beings are??

Jesus Christ, I'm out of here. Go read a fucking book.

More like 10.000 years.

The few men left who unlike yourself have not been turned into disgusting balls of estroegen and fat by hormones in the water and indoctrination in the media.

you people have an odd conception of nature
you can go against nature as much as you can go against the will of God
not at all

>pathology
I don't think that something born in the gender study circlejerk can be called "pathology". "Pathology" implies a scientific and medical study on the subject

>hormones in the water and indoctrination in the media
Oh, you're one of those people.

lmao you're such a fucking pussy.

What I mean by pathology is the creation of abstract identity or role and wanting to be seen in that way without actions to back it up (and controlling people around you so they validate this identity), i.e. narcissism. Which misguided sjws make it into a gendered issue.

Toxic masculinity? Yeah i'll tell my son about toxic masculinity and let him be a bitch instead of teaching him masculinity and how to be a man

ITT: people so insecure and faceless that their only sense of identity is drawn from their manliness.

lmao. does knowing you're a man really not satisfy you? you gotta have the bro code saved on your android so you know the rules on how to interact with other males?

You're you. You're also a man. Don't let the latter get in the way of the former.

He'd be way better off inventing reasons to hate everyone, and going through life oozing with passive aggressiveness, while finding ways to hold metaphorical guns to the people in his life's heads in order to trap them into staying with him, even though it never works and he ends up single at 40 and a pillhead and alcoholic like most women.

Normal femininity

All masculinity is for me is keeping myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. Anything else is just people telling you what to do.

10/10

>physically strong
>mentally awake
>morally straight
What are you some kind of fascist user?

i think that's boy scouts creed or some gay shit.

That's good advice nevertheless

It's part of the Scout Oath. It's cheesy, but it's true.

I dunno, every serious boy scout I knew was usually both a huge druggy and a sexual homo deviant.

I wanted to say that, in Russian novels the men always kiss and confess their love to each other like it's no big deal.
Gay acceptance has cast a huge digusting shadow over male to male intimacy.

This. Homosexuality is a disease. Of individuals and society.

Feminists really don't know what they are doing by deconstructing masculinity.

I mean, it's almost as if they want husbands and boyfriends who'll never defend them or protect them.

Everyone knows that the reason men are socialized into being tough, is because the world actually is a fucking horrible place, and someone needs to do the dirty work to stop it from getting worse.

but if A in context X, there is no way to tell that A isn't caused by context X if there is no context Y. You can't prove that A is caused by X but you can't prove it isn't either

I think that, at least originally, they wanted both boys and girls to be taught to be strong, but also be able to express themselves and solve their conflicts through talking rather than violence. Take the best of both and give it to everyone.

Yeah, but the problem is that woman are vastly more conflict-avoidant and are less strong than men on average.

Do you really think that feminists would want men to become what women themselves were 50 years ago?

I sincerely doubt it. I sincerely doubt a feminist could handle being the last to leave a sinking ship, or be told that she had to go die in war for her country, or work in a coalmine till she dies of blacklung at 45.

I have only heard feminists espouse this definition of Toxic Masculinity. Is it really just a matter of people hearing "toxic" and "(men)" and thinking it means that men are bad? Toxic Masculinity is really a reflective concept that can help men see through a bunch of bullshit that permeates how some cultures see them.

hey faggots don't talk about your feelings lol bottle them up and become bitter like everyone else fucking homos

>lol bottle them up and become bitter like everyone else fucking homos

The idea that "bottling up" your feelings is bad for you is an old wives' tale.

This.

like said, to have the best perspective on a war you need to have been in one, not to say that a woman can't have a good persepective, just not the best, and while there are a ton of good perspectives, only the best should be considered worth listening to

Plus fundamentally women are not made to understand or fight in wars, they don't have the traits