ITT: Power armor, and also heresy

In most fiction, power armor is often seen as either clunky, brawling beasts (fallout, warhammer to an extent, the matrix) or insanely over-powered, agile death suits (also warhammer, crysis, halo ((depending on if the mjolnir is power armor or not)) and most top down sony games).

In real life however, power armor is NOTHING like an actual suit. It is to begin with not an armor, it is more the likes of a step in, walking forklift used for heavy lifts. Also, it is always powered by cord, making them clumsy.

But ive looked around, trying to find a solution, and so far ive come up with nothing more then a general idea, but maybe /sci can help me.

A "power armor suit" needs a few things to be worth it and to be classified as one:
>A frame to put armor parts on
>Smooth movements, if you are to aim a gun you need to have a smooth arm and so on
>A balanced weight
>A strong material
>Untethered power source

I imagine hydraulics, if fine-tuned, would be the best, and most power efficient way or movement. With pressure sensitive pads on the inside of the arm frame that moves the arm with the movement of the user, you dont need to use muscle as much. Electric servos was an idea, but again, they cost too much power to be worth while.

Armor wise, any plates that stop at least heavy caliber rifles should do it. the chance of surviving a rocket launcher or mine blast is minimal even in armored vehicles, so you the smaller target will have to be enough in my opinion.

The others I dont really know, except power source. I do believe that atomic batteries could be made efficient, and able to power a suit for basicly half a lifetime. Yes, its kinda stealing from fallout, but honestly its not a bad concept, as long as you have radiation shielding.

Help me out here sci, what am I missing, what could be improved, questions?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton
youtube.com/watch?v=WmS0Q7jTPsk
youtube.com/watch?v=JAqrnbCjhbU
youtube.com/watch?v=2g7-608_nt8
youtube.com/watch?v=L5Ts9lYZIDk
youtube.com/watch?v=OAuqk9x5JzM
youtube.com/watch?v=qqbQ_oKmflM
youtube.com/watch?v=QcIH4eGJHXU
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_bulldozer
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

Yeah the concussive force of explosives will simply not give a fuck about your armour and scramble your insides regardless, so pretty much all power armour can ever do is deflect kinetic rounds and NBC attacks.

/thread

You can use powered exoskeletons to carry a greater combat load and heavier armor to keep soldiers alive/stop them from being debilitated by bullets or shrapnel, but unless you can guide pressure waves around people, you're not going to stop high explosives or high caliber munitions from killing anyone in a suit. Plus, they don't have any graceful failure modes when damaged, and will probably cause severe injury or trap the operator inside if they take a hit.

about the whole trapped inside thing, couldnt a suit implement a similar system that figther jets have? small charges blowing the suit away from the user without injuring the user, so that they can escape if incapacitated, or if the suit is immobilized

but wouldnt that be scarily effective in close quarters? imagine what a mechanical version of a tank could do to small arms or rioters

Yeah it could be really fucking scary, running faster than a cheetah and ripping plebs spines out with your gauntlets, but the technology to make such a suit, especially the power supply is just way way beyond us.

but is it tho? i mean, we could probably make small, powerful power sources in 10-20 years, due to the electeic car demand. I imagine a powerful car battery the size of a toaster being modified to fit a suit

>about the whole trapped inside thing, couldnt a suit implement a similar system that figther jets have? small charges blowing the suit away from the user without injuring the user, so that they can escape if incapacitated, or if the suit is immobilized

Ejection mechanisms are high risk and themselves are likely to cause injury.

I get that, but im not saying that the user should get blasted out of the suit, im saying that perhaps the rear half of front half of the suit get manually blasted away from the user, but without directing the blast imwards. Think like a claymore

It's technically possible I suppose. You need to sever the straps that attach the user to the suit's limbs unless you're stepping beyond power armor to a full mech suit, which is probably a lot less practical than power armor.

im thinking fallout 4 power frame, but less autistic

By the time you have fiction-like (of today) power armour/suits, they'll be long-obsolete. At that point militaries will largely be collections of different 'drones'. Maybe with some elite infantry kept for ceremonial and guard purposes, as well as the very narrow amount of situations where they are needed and deployed (primarily for the mission adaptability and autonomy that they may offer in very specific circumstances). I don't think they'll be completely done away with, they'll probably be a niche for them. But power armour would never be worth developing and applying, either way.

That's a lot of jointed elements that would need to be able to forcefully eject themselves in sub-optimal positions for emergency egress.

I do think cheap-ish frames for weight loads will become standard eventually, however, never full power armour.

but what about for police units, such as riot control of stuff like that? a police officer need the mind of a man but the body of a rhino, something you get combining a power armor riot suit and a policeman. prison guards?

Also, the reason warhammer 40k has power armour is because of asymmetrical tech and knowledge. Originally humanity was roughly as we are now, a high-tech, highly-automated liberal utopia. The present tech in 40k is suppressed. Much of it is ancient technology that is more or less magical in nature. Things don't really develop, and they certainly don't have drones, AI, or anything. Any move towards technological development would be suppressed anyway. So, in this context, power armour and the weird fantasy elements of 40k make a lot more sense. It is more realistic than you'd think.

>a police officer need the mind of a man but the body of a rhino
>prison guards?
Not at all. Much easier to automate than actual soldiers. You don't have jamming, messy politics, highly-variable combat and logistics situations, etc. Regarding riot control, such things are already automated in logistics and strategy. There is very little variability, no reason you couldn't have various kinds of drones with some human police as support.

Power armor needs to be thick like in warhammer so it can actually stop heavy rifle fire. That's how THICC it needs to be or thereabouts. Warhammer 4k is really a big joke that makes fun of all sci-fi.

aren't the floating skulls basically drones though? and wouldn't they use somekind of AIs for warp jumps?

Is it possible to make something akin to MK1?

We need a hell of an alloy, layers and steel muscles/ specialized servos.

AI is banned, and with the servoskulls are used for that

Do we have all of those?

Did you just say that hydraulics are more efficient than rotary electric actuators? No I tell you hwat, I've seen a first generation ATLAS and it was VERY LOUD. You think all that sound energy was going into moving the robot boy? Hydraulics are simply a means of transforming mechanical energy and an inefficient one at that. Rotary electric actuators are more efficient. However their torque density (torque/mass) isn't as good as hydraulics+electric motors. It is improving though. I don't have time to address the other stupid shit in your post

Muscles
youtube.com/watch?v=WmS0Q7jTPsk

Alloy
youtube.com/watch?v=JAqrnbCjhbU

Fan
youtube.com/watch?v=2g7-608_nt8

Bats
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_battery

Inner lining, in contact with body.
youtube.com/watch?v=L5Ts9lYZIDk

Flamethrower because Salamanders rule.
youtube.com/watch?v=OAuqk9x5JzM


Thread theme.
youtube.com/watch?v=qqbQ_oKmflM


Also, command center for our Chaplins/ Arch-Magos


lolololol

>running faster than a cheetah
You still are limited by human brain capability. Or you can make an autonomous robot that doesn't need a human inside.

Why is power armor worth producing?
Because It keeps the soldier alive.

Heating and cooling
armored from shrapnel and small arms
HAZMAD suit (Chemical, biological, radiation)
full situational awareness sensors
powered exosuit for lifting and moving supplies
emergency medical aid built in
communication abilities
heavy weapons can be used

A soldier in a power suit is a small extremely mobile tank.

There's a reason they call tanks coffins though

Command center/incubator of The Arch-Magos is literally just a vat of ferro fluid and a v.r headset/implant.

There is also an electro magnetic improvement that can be made to the inner lining, to harden before any impact, like when your stomach muscles do when you tense as you are about to be punched. I will let you figure out how do that last one.

>There's a reason they call tanks coffins though

BULLSHIT!!
I do not think ANY M1 Abrams tank has EVER been lost due to enemy fire.

>another thread about a faggot who doesn't understand hydroloics and repliers who don't understand current technology in power armor
youtube.com/watch?v=QcIH4eGJHXU

You can power a very useful exoskeleton with a small 4hp gasoline engine.

>powered upper body only
GW are obviously fat slobs who skip leg day and never have had to ruck march.

the russians did in WW2 where the diameter of the hatch was less than the width of the 15yo boys' shoulders who crewed the damn thing.

Meanwhile US armor in WW2 had the lowest casualties of all combat personel. Lower casualties than the air forces.

This.
People need to get over their size desires. The truth is if we want to become better at warfare we need to make ourselves smaller and more dexterous, assuming we can put the same amount of fire power down range (we can) we cant to eliminate as much mass and surface area as possible.
The future super soldier is a not a big warrior like halo but rather a short, small, dexterous, intelligent man equipped with very powerful firearms.

*we want to eliminate not we can't to eliminate

deflecting kinetic rounds is a big deal you goofballs. Concussives are overrated anyways and the smallest amount of intervening terrain makes the majority ineffective.

after a certain weight point, bullets barely do much. sure, you could argue that weight+distrubution and the height of the target affects the balance on impact, but after a certain weight has been reached, that problem wont exist. try shooting a moose, and see what happens. Unless its a headshot, they barely flinch so long as you use a standard hunting round. now, imagine cutting that moose in half from the back and slapping a ton of armor on it

the point of an armored exoskeleton is not to be an invincible juggernaught on the battlefield, its to carry big ass guns.

the mk-19, 240B, M2, etc are all crew serve weapons that take a minimum of 2 people to operate and carry. a power suit would give you the ability to heft those weapons around and shoot them in confined "infantry only" kind of spaces. you would never field a full squad of power suits, you'd have one per squad as a support guy. more than likely taking the grenadiers position.

So you become an inferior tank, basically.
Infantry warfare isn't going to go the route of bigger and stronger, it's going to go the route of smaller and more efficient. Mark my words.

a tank, but for indoor operations

>You still are limited by human brain capability.
That only matters if general AI exists. With only narrow AI, the suit could have an AI alt mode, and you could enhance the capabilities of the suit operator with the AI when not in AI controlled mode (highlighting enemies in the distance and having a couple cameras on the back to notify the soldier of threats coming from behind).

Remote controlled land drones would probably be vulnerable to signal jamming, and there is some considerable effort towards banning lethal autonomous weapon systems today, so I think power armours are an actual possibility unless the world goes into total war and the leaders go "fuck this, let's make the most lethal death bots we can before the enemy does it".

There's also a reason they're still used.

We would need better muscle and bone evolution and that is almost impossible thanks to the feminist/juice agenda...
I think that at least soldiers would look like "good looking" ogryns or....

wouldn't you need powered legs to carry the full weight of the armor?

>We would need better muscle and bone evolution

WHY?
Even the weakest woman can fly an airplane as well as the strongest man.

Artificial muscles and ridged exoskeleton operated by the average soldier.

There is ZERO need for a genetically enhanced super-soldier if you have an armored powered combat suit.

Think of a combat suit as a highly mobile single soldier urban combat tank.

...

What do you need the human inside for? I mean, what's the advantage of not having the thing controlled remotely from like 10 km away in a portable station or something? You're only creating problems like having to protect the human body within etc....

Lag.

I think the lag of you having to move your leg to control the armor would be far greater than (10 km)/(299792,458 km/s). With a remote bot, you could just press x to sprint like a motherfucker without being limited by your leg muscles, you'd just fire a way faster sprinting subroutine
You limit the thing a fucking lot when you insert a human who can't handle too much acceleration, has to be protected from gas attacks, is considered more precious and so on and so on

>What do you need the human inside for?

Wireless control means that if an enemy breaks your encryption, your "army" turns against you and they have won.

In 2011 Iran used cyberwarfare to commandeer a USA drone to land safely in Iran.
See:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident

You can avoid this by jamming a randomized encryption core and an approximation algorithm in case of a disconnect within a twenty seconds to half an hour.

Meant for

>Even the weakest woman can fly an airplane as well as the strongest man.
weak people pass out from high G-forces encountered in a fighter airplane
>Artificial muscles and ridged exoskeleton operated by the average soldier.
>There is ZERO need for a genetically enhanced super-soldier if you have an armored powered combat suit.
The person needs enough endurance and strength to control the movements of the suit and to complete the mission.
>Think of a combat suit as a highly mobile single soldier urban combat tank.
no. combat suits are a way to improve the performance of a heavy weapons team and/or breach man. Combat suits are still infantry in every meaningful way. You have much ignorance to overcome.

Because ground combat general AI does not exist. So you either put a person in there or you make a person wear a VR suit and pray that nobody will jam your robots.

Warframe biological-like look of the frames are the best

except warframes are spoiler: remote controlled drones

Truly worst addition to lore.

How the fuck u can make the operator appear in battle then?

They use mutant psyker scum for warp jumps

>but is it tho?
Yes. We're at about the limit with the efficiency we can squeeze out of a battery. Everything seems to be waiting on a breakthrough. Maybe they'll finally get graphine batteries to be mass produced and cost effective but as far as I know that's still on the far horizon.

>I mean, what's the advantage of not having the thing controlled remotely from like 10 km away in a portable station or something?
Because electronic/cyber-warfare is a thing.

>Jam all the communications
>Disable your entire army

No.

what about vacuum sealed armor?

what if we could use a noise cancellation device in close quarters to artificially exert pressure in key places within the layering? Then it could function with a fan exhaust. Alternatively a closed system air generator is possible through two stage exhaust while the cooling is done through liquid.

You dont need 2 people to carry a 240B and all its ammo unless you have an ass load of ammo. The gun is 27 lbs and every 100 rounds is a lbs is 6.5 lbs

240B is a one-man machinegun yes. But the M2 is not, and neither are mortars. Carl Gustav's and AT-4 missiles are also not small or light.

Also ISIS tube guns in 12.7mm are hilarious.

>Also ISIS tube guns in 12.7mm are hilarious
Will look up videos of, and i was jist clarifying for people who dont know as much about squad weapons

your all thinking too small, fuck having an m2 or a rocket launcher when you can carry dual minigunS

...

Enjoy having to put on aspacesuit to survive the inside of your power armor and still try to be an effective combatant.

hey, if fighter pilots can wear those uncomfortable suits and still work efficently in such an enviroment, i dont think a power armor suit with proper air conditioning and Computer assisted overlays will have much of a harder time

Fighter pilots are seated the entire time and only have to use their hands and fingers, they don't run around rip and tearing trough a battlefield.

sure, but the point of such an armor is ASSISTED movement, not hindered.

Real life power armor is not clumsy because of the cord. Whenever you add mass to the human, it changes the dynamics of walking. Unfortunately this means that exoskeletons designed to help a soldier carry more load are just barely better at reducing metabolic cost than if the wearer were not wearing the exoskeleton at all. Making an exoskeleton that can make up for it's own weight is very difficult.

Making power armor is even more difficult. Adding weight to the legs tends to restrict motion, for a practical example of this, see a ball and chain. About 10 pounds on your foot can severely slow you down. Making power armor work is a very challenging biomechanics problem that's not going to be solved by magical power sources or hydraulics.

>Using then instead of than.

>pointing out spelling mistakes instead of making constructive criticism

never skip leg day

Early power armor will be bulky and slow.

Infantry that can't go prone or move in buildings is useless.

Unless this powerarmour will be used like a more mobile forklift.

Forklifts are mobile

I am talking about a forklift that's able to operate in battlefield conditions. This would be a limited use, but a use non the less.

Maybe use liquid breathing. I remember reading you can take 50-100G that way.

powered armor is very useful if the battlefield has chemical, biological, or radiation. Infantry has to wear very bulky or flimsy protection, but with powered armor they will be MORE mobile, durable and able to deliver a larger payload.

Forklifts can operate in battlefield conditions.

Could you give examples? Not really familiar with the logistics side of warfare.

*teleports behind you*
Anti personnel kid

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_bulldozer

two or three have, but never due to failure from the main armor. IED's knocked out a few, and One lucky iraqi managed to get an oldschool russian AT grenade into an open hatch while they were reloading, ammo door was open and a few shells burnt off but all the crew except the loader survived, albeit badly burned

The safest place to be in a battle is in a USA main battle tank.

>The safest place to be in a battle is in a USA main battle tank.
It's probably a lot safer in an aircraft with established air superiority.

more a tank for Urban operations.

A normal tank is a perfectly cromulent weapon for urban operations. If you need to go in buildings, you're still stuck with mark 1 infantry that can fit in doors.

>A normal tank is a perfectly cromulent weapon for urban operations

A normal tank embiggens even the smallest soldier.

narrow streets and multi story buildings inside cities make for tank graveyards. Syria has proven a tank can be extremely useful in urban environments, but also terribly vulnerable.

>A normal tank embiggens even the smallest soldier.
Power armor embiggens even the smallest soldiers too much to fit in doors, too.

That's kind of the history of tank warfare in a nutshell. They're amazing weapons, but with known weaknesses and need to be utilized with those weaknesses in mind.