Ok can you disprove this scientifically? No hand wavy feelingy debunkings people

Ok can you disprove this scientifically? No hand wavy feelingy debunkings people.

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The nigger just has a different definition. That's all.

psychologytoday.com/conditions/gender-dysphoria
It exists, as to what makes someone a "man" or a "woman" well obviously there are biological differences, but there's no ultimate model that links behavior and sex. The point is, who the fuck cares?

It can't be disproved because it's not a scientific argument.

Sex and gender have purposely been conflated to justify mental illness.

>ok
very socratic lel

>Don't try to use hand-wavy feely arguments to debunk my hand-wavy feelings

gender is an invented word with no real basis, only biological sex exists. identifying as the opposite sex constitutes a delusion.

"man" and "woman" are words whose meanings came to be defined by the language before the scientific revolution so they are not scientific ideas but the meanings of those words most closely correspond to either of the two definitions:
Anything adult human with a Y sex chromosome is a man, otherwise it is a woman.

Any adult human with XX sex chromosomes is a woman and any adult human with XY sex chromosomes is a man and any adult human with other sex chromosomes is neither a man nor a woman.

the first definition is probably the most linguistically consistent with how people throughout history have used the words man and woman.

So we can see by this definition, no considering yourself a woman does not make you a woman since how you consider yourself makes no difference to whether you have a Y sex chromosome or not.

thread should have ended there

>Sex and gender have purposely been conflated to justify mental illness.
t. dark ages inquisitor

>there's no ultimate model that links behavior and sex
The ultimate state of /sci.

I cannot wait for the day when human like robots or synthetic humans exist and we start questioning what it means to be human. The shape a non/living form takes? DNA? Attitude?

Btw this isn't a what if scenario, this will happen in your lifetime. Take a screenshot of my post so you can revisit the glory days when we argued what is gender.

Okey then, tell me a model that exactlt catalogues behaviour and sex? What your mom does doesn't count. That in anyways doesn't mean there aren't any, but in essence, there is no fundamental biologicak principle that says men and woman "should" act in a certain fixed ways.

>Ok can you disprove this scientifically?

Of course. Men have testes and women have ovaries.

Whatever people feel about themselves is irrelevant to the physical facts, but if you want me to be generous, I can say that men can act like women, and women can act like men all they want, but that doesn't change material reality.

is this what it looks like when a phoneposter tries to type on something without autocorrect? google "hormone effects on behavior". also
>What your mom does doesn't count.
hole-tier insult

/thread

yes, one can have a baby, one cannot
>CASE FUCKING CLOSED YOU RETARDS

I said completely you retard. Obviously there is an effect, but that doesn't justify being reductionist moron.

hahahahahaha he's so black

>can you disprove this scientifically?
can you disprove my passionate love for Subway? No? That's 'cause is an opinion, not something scientific.

Gender is a) mental illness or b) opinion but the main point is that is an abstract thing in your brain that no one cares.

you cant. the same way you cant disprove that the date today is 613081
the main argument against him is that its not a very useful definition since most people dont think of a "woman" like that

Snowflakes and social """""""""""""scientists""""""""""""" mistake personality for sex.
If you like to wear skirts and prefer ballet over basketball doesn't mean you should take estrogens and chop your dick off

>doesn't mean you should take estrogens and chop your dick off

why the homophobia?

Why the racism?

I feel so glad that in our contemporary age a lot of people feel free to express and present themselves in the way they want.

But for fuck's sake why do you have to label it names? If progressives could for one second drop their stupid identity politics and accept gender as a complete social construct (which they say they do).

Want to use a pink dress? That doesn't make you a woman. You're just wearing a fucking dress. Want to be a woman? Get a fucking vagina, and that's it.

>Take hormones
>This somehow changes your chromosomes and entire bodily structure so you are now a woman

/pol/ is obnoxious and I really dislike them, but SJWs are a million times worse and I want them to get the fuck out of my field REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

t. Biologist

at first we need to define what both understand of being a man or women.
then we shoot both and the white guys dad too.

/thread

good ass whippin' xx xy

not all trans people decide to transition, some are comfortable in their own bodies which I guess is consistent with the idea that sex and gender aren't bound together and that man=/=penis

Literally this and any other answer is wrong

Trivial, it's called primary sexual characteristics.

But being trans is by definition not feeling comfortable in your body

what's not being said here is what assumptions are being made

if you look at humans from the perspective that our development and behavior is based on chemical gradients, you might be inclined to say someone whose gene expression patterns are more in line with female behavior (but not morphology) could identify as a woman because despite their lack of reproductive function in that capacity, they socially resemble something closer to a woman. but I don't think that kind of information is really catalogued in a way that we can observe things from the perspective of "N x 10-17 moles of Protein B expressed in group of neurons C correlates with Female typical behavior". We're kind of left with what we see face to face, and it might just come down to what a person self-reports vs what is observed about their broad physical characteristics. problems here include that we have to acknowledge that the mind is way more complicated than sex organs, so maybe the self-reporting could be based on something "real", but at the same time we don't know if everyone who reports feeling like a female really feels like a female. They might just be confused or something. I think this sort of stuff is also part of why people are looking at brain differences between this-and-that gender identity or sexuality, etc.

at the end of the day I think just need to know more before going one way or the other. I think it's kinda dumb to just say if you feel you're a woman you absolutely must be woman, but I also genuinely don't know what individuals feel on a case by case basis. If you consider that you probably have chemicals governing self-identity and your capacity to identify a mate, well, yeah that could easily be fucked up in people that they are conflicted about what sex they are "on the inside". But is that proven? I dunno.

At any rate I fucking hate these stupid ass fucking comics. I'll tolerate someone who feels conflicted about sex identity, not a retard who asserts bullshit.

females have vaginas, men have penises.
Is this that difficult?

>with the idea that sex and gender aren't bound together and that man=/=penis

But man does equal penis. What doesn't equal man or woman however, is what clothes people wear, or who they want to have sex with.

Deconstructing biological categories doesn't make biological categories go away.

I mean in the strictest biological sense you are wrong. Intersex can produce a penis, same for some unlucky XX females. It may not be functional but it can be there.

Plus by your definition if I just grafted a random dick onto something it becomes a male.

but user traps are just girls drawn with a penis
and traps are gay

It depends on what "man" and "woman" describe. If you loosely use it to describe the shape of someone's crotch, then what the comic says is easily disproven scientifically. If it is used to describe how someone intends to behave, then science doesn't have much purpose in proving or disproving what the kids are discussing. It is a social issue with trends that can freely change over time.

>Intersex can produce a penis, same for some unlucky XX females

So what? Extremely freak exceptions don't axiomatically disprove a rule.

What you're essentially saying is that our language shouldn't correspond at all with how reality presents itself to us, which is essentially denying correspondance theory of truth.

The reductio ad absurdum of what you're saying is that people can claim to be bananas and I have to respect their utterances, because their subjective use of language trumps propositional content about empirical reality.

Futanari are girls drawn with a penis, traps are not girls, that's why they are gay.

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what is he doing to that cat?

>Can you disprove a disprove a definition scientifically.
No. You can't scientifically prove that "Assdust" isn't the name for sand if I say it is.

>Gender roles are just a social construct!!!
>Gender isn't real!!!
Gender critical feminists get off my fucking science board.

You have no choice about your identity. No one does. This is true of all identities, btw.

Just because a homeless person self-identifies as rich doesn't make it so. If Peter Dinklage said he was tall, that doesn't make it so.

Identity is totally out of your control, no matter how many hormones you take or what cuts you make to your genitals.

yeah but the origin of the word man refers to a human being not a male

and what about all the people who express as xx or xy but are the opposite gender

>Gender roles are just a social construct!!!
nobody said this
>Gender isn't real!!!
it isn't real. correct
>Gender critical feminists
still scratching my head as to how you concluded this, though.

sex=gender but you can call yourself whatever you want this isn't Nazi Germany

but that doesn't make it true.

I can call myself President of the United States, but I'm still just a bum on Veeky Forums.

he's kind of right, but this is an actual issue when legislation forces you to recognize someone's delusions

Haha! That's a good punchline, user. Great comic!

>it's the current year maaan!!

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there was feminist against the gender bullshit? fucking great, it eats itself again even worst

The XX and XY chromosomes are a near 100% predictor of gender, even if we include transgender people. It determines all characteristics of the person.

Although, I could be convinced that theirs a possibility of an error on the genetic level which accounts for trangender people I think the current chromosome model is such a strong predictor that the vast majority of transgender people are actually mentally ill.

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underrated post

there are so many subhumans on this board that think they know better than professionals that have built their whole careers around studying gender dysphoria

>chromosomes
>genitals
>brains
fucking cultural marxism bullshit

Nothing it doesn't deserve.

this but unironically

For humans, sex is the phenotype that results from the expression of the SRY gene or the lack thereof. Most of the human population is either male, for whom the SRY gene is expressed, or female, for whom it is not. Of course, complications arise with the process of biological sex determination, but this only happens in a small portion of humans.

Gender is a set of behaviors and characteristics commonly associated with a biological sex as well as the social norms and structures based upon it. Gender can be thought of as a convex combination of masculine and feminine, but some people prefer to think of it as a point in an infinite-dimensional Hilbert space that lacks a canonical basis.

No. Your parts make you a man or a woman. Anything else is a freak.

Pretty much this. I'm puzzled as to why anyone gives a flying fuck.

>gender is an invented word
All words are invented.

This

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According to these people, what even man and woman mean? It seems like they treat words man and woman as meaningless, as just some labels that doesn't really mean anything.
But then what's their point, how can somebody be transsexual if the notion of sex is meaningless and probably non-existent as well?

And some people are born with just one arm and yet they always sell gloves in pairs. Deviations from the norm cannot be the norm

So, gender is just a fancy name for a personality?

Call an illness any odd trait an individual might have that makes him incapable of fulfilling one of the three basic characteristics of life, namely nutrition, adequate response to stimuli and reproduction.

An individual who identifies as a female must, by the biological definition of what constitutes a female, be able to reproduce with a male. Something xir is incapable of.

Therefore xir is clearly ill in some way, and yet his body seems to be that of a healthy male, so he must be mentally ill.

>It seems like they treat words man and woman as meaningless, as just some labels that doesn't really mean anything.

Well yeah, that's their whole thing. They're not trying to hide it

>fallacy of authority in Veeky Forums of all places
So this is the power of tumblr

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>look at genetics
>keep looking
Whoa look at those hormones and that identity changing virtually nothing of any relevance. I don't even dislike transexuals or anything, but their shit makes no sense logically or biologically, they won't solve their issues by being enabled, and they need psychological and likely psychiatric help. Enabling them because of muh discrimination helps nobody, quite the opposite.

But if these words are meaningless why are they using them? And again, why do they fight for transsexuals if, as they claim, it's meaningless concept and since you can't be man and woman (because it means nothing to be one of these( you can't be transsexual either. Do they notice their views are self-contradictory?

Feel free to disprove them- that’s the point of the thread. Just plugging your ears and screaming gender and sex are the same thing does not constitute a refutation and has no scientific basis to draw from.

not him, but this seems like an oversimplification

like is it just "personality" if I'm a guy who wants to wear dresses and makeup, have zero drive to compete with men, like talking about romance, and want to be a motherly figure to children? Generally when I think of personality I'm usually coming up with words like "Stubborn" or "Patient" or "Aggressive" or "Meticulous"; none of those are necessarily gendered, but the behavior of transpeople suggests to me you've got something resembling the expression of female sex-limited traits in a male body. Really, I have no way to back that up, I'm just speculating, but I feel like there is something to examine about these people. To just call it personality seems like a dismissal of problems these people encounter when they have to confront their feelings vs what they actually see when they look in the mirror. Not to say snowflakes don't exist, but, I suspect it's more complicated.

But are dresses and make-up inherently linked to sex?
I don't say there are people with mental problems who think they don't belong to their body, but saying "if you have some personality traits usually ascribed to women and like to wear women's clothes, but are biologically male, then you can be a woman if you wish" is ridiculous

This is next level "why the homophobia" posting

I don't know. We could speculate while trying to use evolutionary psychology but I don't know what we really could test.

For the record I don't think I condone SRS or suggesting any particular treatment for people who claim to be trans, but if a man's behavior just fits the bill for a woman, at a certain point, I just treat them like a woman. I know their sex is male, and they ought to know their sex is male, but socially I see no reason not to indulge them if their behavior is indistinguishable from that of a female. I think it's benign if we acknowledge all of the above.

I just want my sexuality, and that of the dependants of the world to be respected instead of "guided."

Trans surgery was an expensive evil scam from any view that isn't entirely (and not insultingly) mental.

ok, scratch out the word invented then. post still stands.