If travels in the time was possible, what could go wrong if i meet the"me" of...

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

If travels in the time was possible, what could go wrong if i meet the"me" of the past?I mean,can actually something gone wrong?

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youtu.be/1YFrISfN7jo
youtu.be/HUMGc8hEkpc

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

It's not clear how that could even happen. Even ftl prevents you from interacting with the past.

King_Martha
King_Martha

Sorry i don't understand, if this was possible, i could interact or not with the past?

5mileys
5mileys

Nothing would happen. The cells in your body are constantly being replaced, aren't they? You from the future is a different physical entity than you from the past. Your body is constructed from different particles.

Unless you were asking about how that would interfere with causality, in which case the answer is that nobody knows.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Movies say that you two will explode like matter meets antimatter. (That usually doesn't level half the continent as it should though.)
Logic says that you would just meet you. Awkward conversations may arise maybe, but no worse than that.
Physics says you can't.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Going backwards is almost certainly not possible. But suppose...

Doesn't matter whether you go back to a point within your own lifetime or not. YOU might not be there in 1850 but your atoms would. You'd run into many of them with every breathe you took and every bit of food you swallowed.
On the other hand, if you went back 20 minutes, there'd be essentially no physical difference between the two of you. Either you'd remember being in the lab that morning and being surprised when a second "you" materialized -- or you wouldn't. In the first case, nothing unusual has happened. In the second case we have a causality paradox. SF writers have been remarkably ingenious in dealing with these. Whether any of their "solutions" correspond to reality is up in the air until someone tries it.

If you've never read Heinlein's "By His Boothstraps", you've got something enjoyable to look forward to.

massdebater
massdebater

"Time" does not travel in any direction, that's a distorted attempt to physicalise it in some way.

Time is a concept best left to philosophy.

Booteefool
Booteefool

Say you travel ftl. Then you can arrive at some point in space where light from where you left, or even light before you left has not reached. Then, you could have full knowledge of all information that will eventually reach you. In that sense, you're from the future because you are prescient. But theres no physical explanation currently that you could travel in time so that the entire universe except you had atoms arranged exactly how it was at some point in your past. So it's not clear how you would interact with yourself or your ancestors or w/e.

Flameblow
Flameblow

t. philosopher
Time is very much a meaningful thing in physics. It travels in one direction, the one in which the entropy of closed systems increase.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

No.
FTL travel would allow you to step out of your ship, on Earth, in 1920 AD. Or send e-mail from 2018 to 2000 AD, which is just as bad insofar as causality violations go.

I posted a clear explanation of this, with Minkowski diagrams, on another thread recently and seemed to convince everyone except the usual
"Everything physics has 'discovered' since Aristotle (or Tesla) is made-up nonsense. Duh!"
trolls.

Soft_member
Soft_member

you would end up having a gender re assignment surgery and fucking your mother

Methnerd
Methnerd

You would break your whole timeline. Those atoms can never be in the state to create you to return in time. However you are still somehow there so maybe you won't be erased nut you will no longer be created, someone else will. Maybe you'd exist as a third party, a sorts of clone. Or reality would instantly catch up the moment you affect ANYTHING that will affect you in any way (think butterfly hurricanes) youll be ripped from the timeline and something else will continue. Perhaps the past yous memory of the changed event would be wiped.

massdebater
massdebater

But what if we touch penises when the 2nd me appears

kizzmybutt
kizzmybutt

David Gerrold's "The Man Who Folded Himself" makes your bizarre fantasies look tame.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Nope. The minkowski diagram nowhere shows you can actually go to an early part of a worldline, only get information from it.

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Maybe someone else can answer this, but a ponderous postulation I postulate for you to ponder:
If I went back in time does my added atom count fuck with entropy? Technically it's the same universe, so it's a closed system right? Or is it 2 universes connected by my time tube? Is every new millisecond a creation of a new universe and only your consciousness extends into the next new one? I don't think the universe cares about time that much tho desu. That scenario seems more spiritual than practical, so I gotta think the past now and future universes are all one closed system.
But is the universe known to add or remove a few units of mass every now and then?
Fuck, if it is one system, is there anything stopping it from borrowing from itself from a different time?

A second, unrelated point- if I travel back in time, how do I measure going back in space so I don't wind up in Saturn's orbit?
You kno, say I went back 30 years to talk my mom into that abortion, the Earth has moved plenty distance in 30 years. Do I magically stay in the same Earth centric location when the time machine zipzaps, or what the fuck do we use as a reference point to make sure I land back on Earth?

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BinaryMan
BinaryMan

Depends on what your postulates are.

Stories in which you can fuck up the past are more varied. Stories where time travel s possible but you can't change the past tend to be of two types -- either the past already contains whatever you do, so your efforts come to nothing, or the Universe creatively "heals" whatever you do, a la you stop Booth from killing Lincoln but he slips on the stairs and dies that night anyway.

Lunatick
Lunatick

I assume you were the guy posting about the ansible?
If so I didn't get that conclusion from what you were saying at all, the opposite in fact. You used the idea of instantaneous communication between reference frames moving relative to each other to show how information could travel back in time. But you also said that if an FTL traveler stopped in the same reference frame from which he departed, even if he traveled thousands of light years in a second to get there, then his Minkowski diagram would be merely shifted spatially relative to his origin, which would rule out any weird logic breaking stuff. To me that implies that if I end up in the same place I started then there's no way to travel in time relative to that place, even if I do a dozen laps around the universe in as many seconds.
What would a FTL traveler have to do to end up back at his origin at a time before he left? Pull a Superman?

happy_sad
happy_sad

If i go back in time and give myself a handjob is it gay? Or just an advanced form of masturbation??

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

need more info on time travel

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

if you lived in a heat death then would time still exist?

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

I've always been under the impression being a fag is defined as having sexual feelings for Another dude.
Considering you're the Same dude, that means it's advanced masturbation. Tho bare in mind, traveling back in time to skull fuck yourself only means at one point you got skull fucked.

Tho hold on. Philosophically, and even physically due to cell regeneration/replacement, you're a different guy than you were even 10 minutes ago.
Considering the sexual attraction is physical, your a dude in love with another dude.
You know, replacing a yacht one plank of wood at a time, at what point is it a simple repair and at what point have you basically built a brand new yacht?
Me, personally, I always felt as long as there were a single plank of wood left than there was still something sentimental that made it the old yacht.
So how long does your body take to wholly regenerate? Off the top of my head I think it's 7 years. So there you go, traveling back any more than 7 (or wtvr) years to touch your own peepee makes you a faggot, and kind of a pedo.
#ScienceAndTheDualityOfTimeTravelingFaggotry

Soft_member
Soft_member

assuming you were in some box zapper which timeported the interior, you would do not much more than increase atmospheric pressure of past earth by a negligible amount. best bet would be to have a parachute/space suit on and timeport to a point in time where you can decend into orbit ie the earth is in roughly the same place. only problem is: youre right. the orbit of the sun through space has moved that exact location many miles away from the earths current paths of motion. only thing we can do is pray that the time machine works by harnessing earths gravity and so your proximity is held to the earth. that or hope that the time portal can move you to another region of space also.
you would increase the

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viagrandad
viagrandad

Can you link the thread?

Inmate
Inmate

This is interesting, tracking Earth's gravitational disruption/distortion path through the higgs boson field through time. Feasible?? In the future I mean, if and when they ever assign a coordinate system to space and the hb field.
Probably the most reliable way to find where Earth was in the past. Dude. It's the space-time equivalent of a dog tracking the scent of it's prey. Would you even need a coordinate system or reference point if you could "see" the path? Maybe not!

Still, how to account for rotation. Like you said, might be best to just approximate and parachute down. If you're 6ft off in your calculated journey of a million miles you could end up burying yourself anyway.

Nojokur
Nojokur

you would turn yourself to the ultimate NEET doing nothing until you invent time traveling you would most like like stand there talking with yourself and start to feel wierd because you go jojo style from healthy smart person to uneducated 250kg fatberg to healthy smart person back and forth until you catch your mind back siting a mental health institution because u mindfucked your past self so hard he straight up turned insane
but you will never be able to travel time
you will never come close to understand how useless it would be
why would you even want to go back to shit ages were you would be killed for beeing a heretic or witch etc because of your knowledge
also there is no reason to go back in time. what ever you do, it wont benefit you no matter what you do you will not be able to benefit of the past in a timeline were you would be able to travel time (maybe if the world goes full Terminator and you have to stop skynet)
also you could deep freeze yourself and hope that your cells stay intact long enought so you can be warmed up in a future microwave and with luck you live the live of phillip j fry but that wouldnt be timetravel so it would be just a preservation
also if you would have the luck to live long enought to learn that traveling time is possible you would never get a chance to use it

bad english etc idc

Lunatick
Lunatick

Is that book the inspiration for Rick and Morty?

farquit
farquit

Godamn talk about narrow minded. You're not much of a history fan are you? You wouldn't maybe even like to see how the Pyramids were built, or ask Jesus what he meant by "x" proverb or even find out if he existed at all? Scientists could go back for quick samples to track climate change. I mean the possibilities are fucking endless.
And yes, we've already proven you can go forward in time, you just have to go really really fast, so it's not like you're stuck back there.
Even if you were, you could head back only 100 years, bet on a few sport games, and change the course of medicine putting your name down in the history books.

viagrandad
viagrandad

Boulle's "Time Out of Mind"is also fun.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

also there is no reason to go back in time. what ever you do, it wont benefit you no matter what you do you will not be able to benefit of the past in a timeline were you would be able to travel time (maybe if the world goes full Terminator and you have to stop skynet)
What if I went back in time, killed the version of myself in that timeline and then assumed his place? Then I could benefit.

takes2long
takes2long

I've always been under the impression being a fag is defined as having sexual feelings for Another dude.
Considering you're the Same dude...

Are you, though? Are you the same person you were 20 years ago?

iluvmen
iluvmen

o be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty...

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

nothing would go wrong, since the second you would be there the 1st time that particular time passes, so there'd always have been TWO of you there...

this is what the god damned programs, all of them, get wrong... they pretend you aren't there as a time traveler the 1st time that time passes ... but of course did you actually time travel or not ? YES, your premise is you did...

SO YOU ARE THERE, AND SO IS THE YOU FROM THE FUTURE, and "nothing goes wrong" since that only happens once and doesn't change any time line

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

just look in the mirror to see yourself from the past

Emberfire
Emberfire

So then in the future what happens, you ask...
When the time travel time hits, the original you disappears back into the time travel date.
The one that traveled prior and is standing there with you as you get into the time machine remains and is there ... that you keeps on living.
It's really very simple and straightforward but for jewlywood to do it right and make sense would require smaller noses

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Everything physics has 'discovered'
discovered in quotes revealing the problem

DeathDog
DeathDog

Fucking mind blower. But it's still begs the problem- I can't 69 myself

TechHater
TechHater

Either you'd remember being in the lab that morning and being surprised when a second "you" materialized -- or you wouldn't. In the first case, nothing unusual has happened. In the second case we have a causality paradox.

The person in the lab that morning knows he's going to time travel in 20 minutes.
He, as the time traveler that appears, knows he time traveled.
In 20 minutes the one standing there looking at his future self is gone, through the time machine, and only the time traveler he remains.

JunkTop
JunkTop

I believe the thread is gone, but I still have my notes and illustrations. Give me a few minutes.

"Where was the Earth last Tuesday" is a meaningless question. Any "where" answer requires a qualifier. "Such-and-such a position relative to some zero-point." Relativity is based ENTIRELY on the idea that there is no zero-point. Rather, no one that's better than any other one. We can pick any inertial frame we like and whatever experiments we perform will give the same results. "Relative to" the center of the Earth, the center of the Sun, and the center of the Galaxy will all yield different results. If you traveled in time, say back one week, and found you were now X miles from Earth, you now know the "absolute velocity" of Earth -- X miles/week in such-and-such a direction.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

This is called a Minkowski Diagram.
We can’t draw in 4 dimensions, so all 3 dimensions of ordinary space are reduced to the X-axis of the diagram. Motion to the left or right corresponds to movement in space. You’re sitting somewhere right now. You’re not moving. So there’s no motion left or right. But you ARE moving into the future at the rate of 1 second per second. The T axis represents motion in time. With every passing second, you move towards the top of the diagram. Any point in space or time can be shown on this diagram. Motion through space and time is, therefore, a line showing how you got there. This is called your “world line”.

Light travels 300,000 km/sec. A light ray is shown in red and marked C. The diagram has been scaled such that 300,000 km is 10 cm along the X axis and 1 second is 10 cm along the T axis. So the C line is halfway between X and T at 45 degrees. With me so far?

A ship leaves Earth and heads out into space. It travels along the cyan line T’. It is moving slower than light, so at all times a light ray which left Earth when it did is further from Earth than the ship is. Slower than light motion is called Time-like.

The pilot of the ship regards himself as “not moving” once the engines are turned off. He’s just sitting there and it’s the Earth that’s rushing away. That’s a perfectly valid viewpoint and it’s why his path is labeled T’. He’s going straight up HIS time axis.

But ALL observers measure the speed of light to be the same. Light always moves halfway between the T and X axes. If the pilot has a different T axis than you do, he must also have a different X axis. Only way he can measure light to have the same velocity as always. His space-axis is X’ (continued)

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Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Now, we’ll imagine an ansible has been invented. An ansible is faster-than-light radio. In fact, it’s instantaneous regardless of the distance between transmitter and receiver. Instantaneous is not really necessary. Any faster than light signaling will do, but it makes the diagrams easier to draw.

At 1, you broadcast an important message over the ansible. What does “instantaneous” mean? It means it takes no time to travel any distance in space. So the dashed gray line is horizontal. No motion in time at all. It is received by the space ship at 2.

The pilot sends a reply. How does it travel? Back to 1? No! That’s silly. Why should it retrace the path along your X axis. There’s nothing special about Earth’s motion. To be consistent, it has to go parallel to the ship’s X axis, the one we called X’. So it reaches Earth at 3. This is BEFORE you sent the original message at 1.

If the message sent at 1 was “planes hijacked to crash in New York”, then the police can take action at 3 to foil the plot. So the planes were never hijacked and you never sent the message at 1. We have a paradox!

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whereismyname
whereismyname

It wouldn't be the past, it would be the present, and it would have happened only once.
So of course you could "interact", and there would be no problem in doing so, as there's only one timeline...

In the one timeline you're already there "from the future" since you time traveled - no the future hasn't happened yet, but you are still there in the only timeline there is...

See jewwy hollywierd has everyone's mind all fucked up on the matter - you're supposed to pretend that if there's a time machine there's all kinds of timelines, but of course there isn't, since time travel means you time traveled, not "time lined to a different universe all together"

break the jew hollywood death grip on your mind

Nojokur
Nojokur

We covered that here We don't need a central coordinate system to track our relative movements. We 'sniff' the Earth's path through the higgs boson field

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

The causality violation appears when you do something different.
Either:
1) You don't remember having had a visit from your future self, or
2) After learning that you're going to get into the time machine in a few minutes, you decide not to do so.

Heinlein's "By His Bootstraps" carefully sets up a situation where the traveler tries to break out of the loop, to do something different than what he remembers occurring "the last time around", but (for apparently logical reasons) never manages to do so.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

Then the Higgs Boson field is a preferred frame. That alone violates Relativity. Just try and find a reference suggesting it does so.

The Higgs field is often compared to moving through molasses. It exerts a "drag" which we interpret as inertial mass. The analogy is flawed. The Higgs exerts no force whatsoever upon unaccelerated bodies. You cannot determine your velocity relative to the Higgs. The field ONLY clicks in when you CHANGE inertial frames; when you accelerate.
Acceleration can be detected. Motion cannot.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

All you're really saying is that the outgoing message takes no time and that the reply is negative in time.

What you need to do is construct a path for the frame of the ansible and show that the instaneous reply occurs in the ansible frames past. Otherwise, you're assuming the conclusion. I.e. circular logic.

You can argue that the shortest path for the ship reply would be perpendicular to it, but that's not necessarily true for a generic ansible path.

eGremlin
eGremlin

Go right ahead.
Construct a theory in which;
1) There is no preferred reference frame; i.e. the laws of physics have the same form regardless of motion.
2) Everyone measures the speed of light to be the same
3) Faster than light (even a little bit faster) is possible without leading to causality violations.

You'd be the first to succeed.
Incidentally, there are TWO ansibles. one at each end of the communications link and they are in relative (sub-light) motion.

First though, you might like to watch
youtu.be/1YFrISfN7jo
youtu.be/HUMGc8hEkpc
These employ animation to make the point even clearer.

hairygrape
hairygrape

where the traveler tries to break out of the loop, to do something different than what he remembers occurring "the last time around", but (for apparently logical reasons) never manages to do so.
LOL
it's not the same person, the traveler is stuck in the timeline he went back to
the he that was already there enters the time travel machine, or the time traveler would have never shown up

What you describe is confused and if that's how heinlein did it then he used that hollywood artifice and it's fraud

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

I never said you couldn't receive information from the future. I just said that your explanation given doesn't prove the signal went back to a previous state of the universe. Instead, it goes to a different frame, which has a different state.

In other words, the question would be what happens if you interact with your past self. Your example only shows information can be transmitted to another frames past. But it does not show that you can start in a frame, leave it and come back to some previous time of that frame.

So your argument is consistent with what I originally said. This is contradictory to what you claimed.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

But you can change to any inertial frame you like at any time.
The ship left Earth at 0 and transmitted the message back at 2.
Then it used its motors to head back to Earth and landed there at 4.
Now it's back in the Earth-frame where it started and where the original message came from -- and where it was received at 3.
The ship can't get back in time to do anything about 911, but the superlight message could.

You can equally imagine you stay on Earth the entire time and your twin brother does the traveling (and returns younger than you are.)

NOW do you understand?
If not, please accept the challenge in and explain to us where Einstein went wrong.

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cum2soon
cum2soon

Which seems to leave only 3 possibilities.
1) Branching time-lines. Anything you do to effect the past shunts you onto a different track.
2) You can enter the past, but you can't change anything. You remember the visitor from the future and things have to play out the same way every time. Since someone can always come back from 2020, it means that 2018 and 2019 are already "fixed". The future is as rigid as the past and free will is an illusion born of ignorance. Maybe it is, but that would be proof.
3) Backwards time travel is impossible.

No one is going to write stories or make movies about 3), so authors and directors will necessarily have to pick 1) or 2). It that's fraud, well, that's why it's called "fiction".

Bidwell
Bidwell

Why do people assume there's some force behind causality that would cause problems if NOW you touched PAST you when those distinctions are fucking meaningless in the first place.

You use a time machine to go back in time. Regardless of how it works, you're physically present in the past. You're not tied intrinsically to the time you came from and your physical body isn't going to just inexplicably stop existing if your doppelganger touches you.

Booteefool
Booteefool

No, because you still haven't adressed why the instant signal goes back in time in most frames.

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