Time doesn't exist

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Time doesn't exist. Time as it know it is simply a way for humans to measure the changing form of atoms. Therefore, we call this time 2018, but it may as well still be 1998. The only thing that has changed is the arrangement of the world, but there is no physical law, no ever-rolling film tape that continually pushes us forward, we only choose to perceive that. Prove me wrong.

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All urls found in this thread:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwObck9twes
hermes.ffn.ub.es/luisnavarro/nuevo_maletin/Einstein_1905_relativity.pdf

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Time doesn't exist.
[citation needed]

Lunatick
Lunatick

[citation needed]
Mind providing a citation proving that it does exist?

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

Time doesn't exist.
Time as it know it is simply a way for humans to measure the changing form of atoms.

choose one
with your logic we could say miles, kilogramm, meter, inch, pounds doesn't exist. they exist as a unit of measurement, just like time.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

That's the point. None of those measurements exist in the physical realm, they only exist in the human mind. Do thoughts "exist"? No, they don't, they are a mental construct. Therefore, Time is a measurement in the same way that miles are a measurement -- it's a mental measuring tape, nothing more. Were there no living creatures, nothing would perceive time, and therefore time doesn't exist.

King_Martha
King_Martha

Reality is "time" plus "units of measurable confidence" grouped by priority tiers

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Soft_member
Soft_member

That doesn't even come close to proving that time is anything other than a human measurement, though.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

What would the purpose of 'proof' be, if not to simply make a calendar of arbitrary numbers/descriptors? All optics-based sentience subscribe to some time descriptor that isn't 'self' (read: day/night).

Reason being that even for all science we agree that 'light source' has predicate to all biological function.

Also, presume that a proof was given. This doesn't mean that it has been presented to the audience (You) via their preferred communication protocols (language, mannerisms, how inclusive is my wording, FREE SEX NOW)

w8t4u
w8t4u

Why does proof of anything ever have to have a purpose? We might believe that the sun is yellow, and one day we prove that it's blue, but that doesn't change anything does it? As humans, we simply strive to understand what makes things tick regardless of why. Sometimes our tinkering will give us rewards, like discovering a new technology that can be applied in ways that help us, other times it simply to quench a thirst for knowledge that does little more than stimulate our imagination.

With that aside, to prove that time does not exist would have many (potentially positive) implications. For example, it would give weight to the concept of an eternal soul. If time does not exist, then death does exist, because whether or not your physical body is observable, your consciousness would continually persist or it would invalidate the concept of time not existing. So long as you are a concious creature that can produce a thought, then if time did not exist, there would be nothing to remove you from that state of consciousness. There is an "old" you, a "current" you, and a "future" you that all exist within the same space, but our minds have created a way to tap into those forms and display them as separate understandings, yet the machine driving those understandings (your consciousness) would remain intact.

So let's say there are no living creatures. Now, where is time? What physical law is keeping track of the change in things? There isn't one. We have as much reason to believe that the world existed for billions of "years" before consciousness existed as we do to think that our entire existence suddenly popped out of a timeless, formless void that granted us the illusion of time and the perception that there was time before us.

The point is, without creatures to perceive time, there would be no time, and thus time cannot exist -- the ebb and flow of the universe is controlled solely by the creatures that perceive it, and without us, it does not flow.

Bidwell
Bidwell

A proof was asked for, so it serves at least 'one' purpose. Trouble being that the word proof doesn't have a mechanical, rigorous definition (even though as a species we could easily do so).

would you define 'creatures' as 'multiple points of unconnected observational sentience witnessing the now'?

massdebater
massdebater

As an addendum all proceeding arguments would fall under the "units of measurable confidence" grouped by priority tiers statement.

We agree that we are communicating sufficiently to have some sort of 'call and response' mechanism which requires grouping via priority tiers with confidence (i.e. I'm not explicitly giving you an answer in the traditional sense, but if you allowed yourself to read what I write as an actual answer to a before unproven problem then we'd get somewhere)

Playboyize
Playboyize

The experience and modification of time is through physical acceleration, not velocity, implying it is in fact a force.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

go back to gender studies you kike

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Then strap me to a fucking rocket son, what we waiting for?! ICARUS! HOLD MY FUCKING BEER WHILST I FIRE-SHIELD MY NUTS!

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

would you define 'creatures' as 'multiple points of unconnected observational sentience witnessing the now'?
I would define a creature as a physical construct which may (depending on the complexity of said construct) be capable of observing itself and reflecting on its own existence rather than simply reacting to stimuli that is presented to it. For example, a mirror is not a creature because it reacts to a stimuli with an effect, e.g. reflecting a light that has been shined on it, but does not have the capacity to know that the light is shining on it and adapting to the light in different ways by choice. By contrast, a human can be blinded by light and choose to either shield their eyes using their hands or to turn their head away. Both the mirror and human are producing a reaction to stimuli but only the human is capable of changing that reaction by will.

Now, all creatures may or may not be unconnected, we cannot be sure, but let's assume they are. For all we know, it is possible that, assuming creatures control the flow of time, a creature living in a universe all alone would have a drastically different perception of time than another creature. When another creature is dropped into the same universe, these two "forces", or perceptions, are fighting against one another to control the flow, which may perhaps cause them to even out.

It's like two jets of water splashing against each other, both vying to overpower the other, with the water that inevitably falls from both being the time that makes up our perception. If one jet were removed, the other jet would spray forward unhindered with no opposing jet causing it to spray off, meaning that this single jet would have full control.

Snarelure
Snarelure

Isn't time just a flawed measurement of disorder?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Change happens, therefore time exists.
Time as a measurement is a human idea, sure, but what it's fundamentally measuring is change.

Change does not happen all at once, it is sequential, and provably so by scientific observation, insofar as space is concerned (they're the same thing anyway, time is just sequential change in space).

If time as a concept of change being sequential did not exist, everything would happen at once, or nothing would happen at all.
And we can also prove that this is not just an artifact of our perception, because some change must necessarily happen sequentially, if it were actually happening simultaneously, the changes would not work the way that we can see that they do.

Unless you want to go full retard and pull some Jayden Smith "woah I'm so deep" shit, time is a thing, but as a concept is just our quantification of states of change being, in some way, ordered.

Firespawn
Firespawn

Yes, precisely. Let's say there are 3 apples in a certain arrangement. Now, you take one apple and move it slightly. The human brain has created a way to observe this change and catalog it, saying "these three apples are in A position, these three apples are in B position, let me adjust my perception to witness what occurred to cause these two positions".

Now, what if you took that apple and moved it back into its exact original location? The only proof that anything changed at all would be a human's memory of it happening. Now let's say that human dies. Did it happen? How can you truly say that it did? The apple was in position A at one measurably unit of "time", and is still in position A at this measurable unit of "time", with no proof that it ever moved. Of course, in our world, we have lots of "proof" that time changed, such as news paper and the like. But what if all of the particles and atoms making up our world suddenly shifted back into their exact placement as they were on march 22nd, 1998? Would we have gone back in time? Therefore, did the apple go back in time when it shifted back to its original position?

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Mind providing a citation proving that it does exist?
I never made such a claim.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

i am replying to your post
hence your post was made before mine
hence time is real

askme
askme

define time to be a measurement of atoms changing form
time exists again
OP confirmed faggot

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

prove that everything you perceive does not exist solely within your mind

if you cannot prove that, then you cannot say that time does not exist simply because it's an abstract concept.

Nojokur
Nojokur

define time to be a measurement of atoms changing form
time exists again
OP confirmed faggot
Who are you quoting?

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

atoms

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happy_sad
happy_sad

t. pseud
Time necessarily follows from the fact that no two objects can simultaneously occupy the same position in space. Also
Time doesn't exist.
Time as it know it is simply a way for humans to measure the changing form of atoms
Pick one and only one.

massdebater
massdebater

Time necessarily follows from the fact that no two objects can simultaneously occupy the same position in space
elaborate

Playboyize
Playboyize

Time is actually the only thing that exists.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwObck9twes

Time is a direct observation of the change of entropy in the universe towards its heat death.

Everything in physics is related to entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Escaping/controlling those laws will grant Godhood. (watch the clip, she says speed up the image infinitely and the car disappears)

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

Time necessarily follows from the fact that no two objects can simultaneously occupy the same position in space
What about boson my dude?

Illusionz
Illusionz

/tv/
off you go braindead brainlet

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Yes, thoughts exist. They have particular physical manifestations in the brain and with time we may be able to decode them.

Flameblow
Flameblow

you know it's pretty damn embarrassing to try to contribute to such a topic with a youtube video with scarlet johansson as thumbnail.

it automatically discredits everything else your wrote because I now know what type of medium you use to convey complex ideas to strangers.

protip, its the wrong type.

girlDog
girlDog

time = metabolism
but at a deeper level it is mechanical motion
bang da gong

Techpill
Techpill

Correct.

There are no measurements. There are only rulers used to measure them.

Emberburn
Emberburn

I’ve thought about this longer than anyone in this thread has. The passage of time does not exist. Time is really a linear distance measurement of the 4D static object we know as the universe. Have you realized that non-conscious matter do not detect change? The entire universe from Big Bang to The End happens instantaneously from the perspective of a star or asteroid floating in space. It blows my mind that many smart people don’t realize this.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

Wow dudes you sure are deep, but try a more intelectual place for your wonderful discussion, such as the youtube comments of a rick and morty video, or on facebook.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Comparing people you don’t like to rick and morty fans, that’s so clever bro! did you come up with that yourself?

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

People you don't like
Is Veeky Forums a place newfags and cancerous retards go when they are scared to post in a faster board?

Lunatick
Lunatick

What is it like being so autistic that conmon english phrases stand out to you?

Booteefool
Booteefool

Time doesn't exist.
clocks exist

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Hence there is no point in trying to rewrite history, unless you want to go down in history as the person who tried to rewrite history.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

basically claims time is relative
It blows my mind that many smart people don’t realize this.

leave this board normie scum

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King_Martha
King_Martha

I was referring to average smart people who don’t care about theoretical physics. i’ve also been on this board longer than you don’t call me normie scum

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

i’ve also been on this board longer than you don’t call me normie scum

Can I call you a loser then?

Techpill
Techpill

響鑼錯!

Or, if we are smart enough, we could just stay here and simply shift the intellectual quotient of 'this' community instead by redefining the n-terms. If we are 'that' deep then technically small calculi such as yourself will find yourself within our global minima (should you choose to remain)
Slight difference being that Veeky Forums is actually more inclusive than most community, provided you are willing to accept toxicity. Think of Veeky Forums as emotional homeopathy.

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Methshot
Methshot

Couldn't have said it better. It is not an alterable element for anything, it's a posterior attribute of the actual cause/event that happens. Actually it's not even that because as you said it's a measurement so it's not the "attribute" of anything. When you drive faster you don't alter the time it takes to get there, you alter the rate which you convert fuel to mechanical energy. The time is just a recording to help reproduce the effect on an empirical scale.

Now, all creatures may or may not be unconnected, we cannot be sure, but let's assume they are. For all we know, it is possible that, assuming creatures control the flow of time, a creature living in a universe all alone would have a drastically different perception of time than another creature. When another creature is dropped into the same universe, these two "forces", or perceptions, are fighting against one another to control the flow, which may perhaps cause them to even out.

Electricity and Magnetism, but only magnetism is "fighting".

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Entropy and the second law of thermodynamics are the universal time measure, and the direction of time is guided by entropy. The same physical laws that guide our universe, apply even if time was flowing backwards (equal and opposite reaction). A system will become increasingly more disorganised as time passes, if it were other way around, time would flow backwards and entropy would be reversed. Therefore, there must be a direction and passage of time.
I think you're mostly confusing the fact that any units of time we use and our own relativistic perception of time with actual existence of time, brainlet

RavySnake
RavySnake

中國群算法的歌曲! 多項式等價| 無限源項!

No point in rewriting other peoples stories, so the effort are to ensure the history that is taught tomorrow is de facto 'identity' story preferred? Seems legit.

Hell there are no doubt billions of humans that have already constructed their 'if this; then: that = infinity' sort of wish scenario. They just keep forgetting that you will always need a 'silent/unobserved' observer in order for infinity to be satisfied.

If we as 'smart people' can identify this then why can't we share an idempotent time descriptor so we can share collective intellectual gains instead of sharding/fracturing everywhere? It leads to imperfect communication when really 90% of us would be fine with 'loli harem sultan' as a baseline to start doing really weird mathematics.

So, a half (1/2) is just binary observational element inspecting a discriminant. Would you argue that mathematically we are just trying to construct algorithms/steps/recipe-style logic in an attempt to 'label' things more commutatively?

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StonedTime
StonedTime

No point in rewriting history, unless you want to go down in history as a liar.

JunkTop
JunkTop

we call this time 2018, but it may as well still be 1998
Why can't we live in a time called z? Everything is arbitrary and we just used words to have things make sense. Time exists because it makes sense.

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Not all history is 'shared' history. Do you know that most Chinese that identify as ethnic Chinese also subscribe to 'China timeline'. It isn't weird for them to understand that the largest history is logically the one to continue.

Pretty much the thing I was agreeing on. If 'time' can be described as... well, let's say the offset of your birthday to UTC (which would then be further segmented into other time discriminants), then why not allow that sort of 'identifier' be advertisable to some agency or other hive-mind or super-organism that many people, intelligent or otherwise, would welcome the new 'shared' descriptor (religion being the usual one people adopt)

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

time is the same everywhere. you were born at A pm utc, then you were born B am at EST. time is relative to when the sun rises and sets

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Yes, but 'time' is an English word. I meant some sort of symbol or commutative advertised identity so those who wish to contribute to it can simply click 'submit'. All humans subscribe to some 'other' humans idea of how to spend your time in the moment.

Bring on the A.I. overlord sayeth I. Interestingly enough though a lot of humans will still need to be 'upgraded' to enable at least some baseline communication of non-collision events/unions. Basically nobody cares about anything unless it directly affects them, and even then only if 'abuse' signals or labels are attached to it. Plenty of victims retroactively describe a situation as 'horrible' the more victim identities that are reinforced around them.

viagrandad
viagrandad

PAUL FEEG

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idontknow
idontknow

Time doesn't exist
way to measure the changing of atoms
Please read twin paradox on wikipedia before you say time does not exist.

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

I guess the better question here is how many people are actually communicating freely for any given information exchange medium?

Snarelure
Snarelure

OP you are a fucking brainlet. First you define time and then you say it doesnt exist based on a different definition other than the one you defined. Go back to the drawing board retard you are not impressing anyone here with that base level pretentious analysis

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New_Cliche
New_Cliche

What is time dilation then?

girlDog
girlDog

I mean, I guess you could look at it that way. But at that rate you could just go on an apply that thinking to anything. In which case nothing really exists, only our perceptions of it.

happy_sad
happy_sad

Veeky Forums - Philosophy

w8t4u
w8t4u

You are making the mistake of forgetting that our sensing organs, and how our brains interpret thir signals, is entirely based on how the universe operates. We evolved from matter than exists in time and space, and hence we sense time and space. Also, you evidently don't know anything about special or general relativity. If you use c as the "causality" limit, then time is just as valid a dimension as any spatial dimension you sense. Here's a question:

If time doesn't exist, why does anything happen in sequence? You kick a ball, then the ball moves. Why doesn't the ball move first, or why does it move at all when you kick it?

If you are looking for an objective example of how time exists, a great example just occurred in physics. We observed a gravitational wave event that was accompanied by an electromagnetic burst. The EM radiation was highly redshifted (its frequency was greatly reduced) by the immense gravitational fields present during the event (a neutron star merger). According to general relativity, strong gravitational field like this "warp" space and time, and this is evidenced by the decreased frequency of the EM waves. This was an astrophysical event that was completely outside of human experience, and yet we observed a warping of time due to immense gravitational fields. Have I proved you wrong yet? I could probably think of more.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

First you define time and then you say it doesnt exist based on a different definition other than the one you defined.
Where was that?
Go back to the drawing board retard you are not impressing anyone here with that base level pretentious analysis
I don't care about "impressing" anyone. I simply put fourth my opinion and asked for proof, or at least a reasonable argument for why my analysis is wrong. I have presented perfectly reasonable arguments, all you can do is call me a "brainlet" and tell me that what I'm saying is "base level pretentious analysis". That isn't an argument, and until you can actually provide me with one, you're the brainlet in this scenario.

Nojokur
Nojokur

If time doesn't exist, why does anything happen in sequence? You kick a ball, then the ball moves. Why doesn't the ball move first, or why does it move at all when you kick it?
The flaw in your reasoning is that you're conflating our human perception of different physical states with time being a physical force. Let me give you an example: let's say there are two paintings. One shows a man holding an axe above his head, about to strike a log. The second painting shows the man striking the log with the axe. Now, if I show you one, and then other in quick succession, you will say "that man, he struck the log", but did he? Or are there simply two states, one where a man is readying to strike a log, and one where the man strikes it? My point is that, as humans, we have found a way to string together these various states into a narrative, but without our perception of these states as being in different "locations", they occupy the same space. In a previous post I mentioned another example, in which you have apples, and you move one apple, and then move it back into its exact previous location. Now, did the apple go back in time? No, to our human perception, we just moved the apple from point A to point B, and then back to point A. Yet, what if those apples represented our entire universe? What if we shifted all of the atoms in our universe from the exact placement they are in 2018 back to how they were in 2008, and then back to 2018 again? Would we have traveled back in time 10 years, or would we simply have changed the arrangement of atoms? That is why time does not exist, because we perceive time as being this force that drives things forward, when in reality we are just perceiving the difference in the state of things.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

damn, this actually makes a lot of sense.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

The universe is expanding. To me that means it’s impossible for the universe to rearrange into a state that exactly mirrors one in the past

farquit
farquit

Time is proven to be both fundamentally quanfitfed and further quantified by our brains

Now kys philosophy brainlets

takes2long
takes2long

The universe is expanding. To me that means it’s impossible for the universe to rearrange into a state that exactly mirrors one in the past
We have no actual proof that the universe is expanding, though. Even if is, how do we know this "expansion" isn't just a rearrangement of atoms in the same way that building a large structure on a once-low grassy plain might be "expanding"?
time is proven because I say so
Nice argument autismoid.

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

hermes.ffn.ub.es/luisnavarro/nuevo_maletin/Einstein_1905_relativity.pdf

Spamalot
Spamalot

Pseudstein

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Bidwell
Bidwell

"philosophy is pointless" - you probably

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

call this time 2018, but it may as well still be 1998.

Funny, that's the impression I get when visiting my local engineering department. Oh well.

Booteefool
Booteefool

Time is an additional dimension, certain space exists at a certain point on a timeline. The movements in between consequent spaces obey the laws of physics for some reason, but all those spaces at different points in time still exist, we can only feel the one we're in.

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