Philosophy is the most basic form of reasoning/"science"

Flameblow
Flameblow

Biology is subordinate to chemistry
Chemistry is subordinate to physics
Physics is subordinate to math
All of the above depend on philosophy

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All urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=zJwwAVM1Auc&feature=youtu.be&t=30
fallacyfiles.org/etymolog.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)
socialmatter.net/2018/01/05/in-defense-of-academic-economics/

RumChicken
RumChicken

Yes all math depends upon Nietzsche whining about Stoicism, Plato talking about a government where a philosopher is the king, Kierkegaard talking about how Christianity is the only way to remove your anxiety, and Foucault saying that social systems are based on an oppressive structure.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

vanity is the fear of appearing original: it is thus a lack of pride, but not necessarily a lack of originality.

Clap

Illusionz
Illusionz

More specifically, basic epistemology. Assumptions like uniformity of nature and reliability of senses are fundamentally philosophical.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

cherry picking that bad
How does such brainlet even exists.

MPmaster
MPmaster

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happy_sad
happy_sad

While technically correct, philosophy is far too broad to be considered precursor in all its forms.

Logic, which is often considered a branch or type of philosophy, definitely precedes mathematics.

Playboyize
Playboyize

Philosophy is different ways to think and perceive reality. The scientific method is a tool to perceive the realities that we can measure empirically. For the things that still can't measured, there's philosophy, and instill think it's important, because a lot of philosophical teachings help you become a better human.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

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whereismyname
whereismyname

And God is just another way of saying money.
t. economist

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Economics is closer to pure mathematics than any other science.

And no, you completely misunderstand the purpose of economics to state that

Dreamworx
Dreamworx

wrong

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

logic *is* mathematics

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

That’s not an argument.

Here let me further my proposition.

Economics seeks to explain material phenomena utilizing the relations between two individuals or entities in an exchange. In order to understand all economic phenomena, in order to derive one variable, one must make sure he understands the exchange ratios for all consumers and commodities that exist and make sure this matrix of equations is discrete I.e. the number of unknowns match the number of equations.

How is this not unironically more pure than physics? Strictly speaking the analysis of ‘pure’ economics as some economists have referred to it like Léon Walras and Vilfredo Pareto is strikingly similar to analyzing physics in a vacuum. So much so, that Irving Fisher used vector-force analysis to analyze different economic relations, like you would with particle physics.

Fourth dimensional analysis is even utilized to comprehend relations between four different commodities in ‘Mathematical Investigations...’

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

youtube.com/watch?v=zJwwAVM1Auc&feature=youtu.be&t=30

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Kierkegaard, what a weird surname, imagine being called "cemetery".

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haveahappyday
haveahappyday

Just read the post above yours. I study mathematics. It’s not like I don’t even dip into the area of ‘scientific’ physics analysis as well with my studies.

Let’s be real here, Economics is definitely a science.

iluvmen
iluvmen

economics is the study of money. money is god. god speaks in mathematics. economics is the purest field

idontknow
idontknow

Mathematics is an axiomatic system that is wholly logical and abstract. But logic in and of itself is not necessarily mathematics.

hairygrape
hairygrape

Money is not God. I denounce your ‘’’’’theory’’’’ of why Economics is a science as false.

This idea is sinful. The study of pure economics doesn’t even deal with a single commodity for money sometimes, fortunately.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

I rest my case

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Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Mathematics is the logic of quantity.

Emberfire
Emberfire

Economics is physics applied to the realm of trade, I agree.

I do not agree that you should be concerned with ‘making money’ or ‘getting rich’ when analyzing economic systems. This is not what any intelligent economist is concerned with.

WebTool
WebTool

Serious philosophy uses mathematics, physics, biology etc.

StonedTime
StonedTime

Foucault, Kierkegaard and Nietzsche like all continental philosophers are just cheap sofists.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

In the past a good knowledge of set theory and logic would be enough to start studying philosophy. Nowadays category theory and model theory are also becoming pre-requisites.

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whereismyname
whereismyname

Math isn't real though.

Illusionz
Illusionz

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Supergrass
Supergrass

Serious philosophy uses mathematics
That's just mathematical logic.
physics
That gets into pseudoscientific bullshit.
biology
Unless it's about bioethics, this also gets into pseudoscientific bullshit.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

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Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Math isn't real...
it's complex!

Spamalot
Spamalot

The only "philosophy" worth studying is a subfield of mathematics.

askme
askme

Abstract Algebra, model theory, category theory etc. are becoming pre-requisites. It's not just set theory and mathematical logic anymore.

Philosophy of physics is more rigorous than most speculative theoretical physics. Nearly all philosophers of physics are mathematical physicists.

Bioethics is pseudoscience.
On the other hand, nearly all important questions in theoretical biology fall in the domain of philosophy of biology. For example: the nature of homology, units of selection, phylogeny vs. tokogeny, the use of axiomatic theories in biology etc.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Economics is not repeatable. It is a study of systems deriving primarily from human actions. It is sociology. It just happens to be the most science-looking of the social studies. But it is no science.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

MAHZ

SniperWish
SniperWish

That's sort of mean, user.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Thinking that money is anything other than a way to optimize trade
wow, were did you graduate?

Lunatick
Lunatick

A economist is a scientist, so he will always be poorer than a "pure" high skill businessman. The former investigates and thinks about how things work, meanwhile the latter takes things "as is" and proceed to make profit from it.

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Economists aren't scientists. Please stop contributing to the devaluation of the word science.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

How is economics an application of physics? At most mathematical and statistical methods.

happy_sad
happy_sad

All of math is a subset of philosophy, not the other way around.

Gigastrength
Gigastrength

Correct, and just like science has lost itself because it's tried to separate itself from philosophy, so has mathematics.

Mathematicians nowadays don't even know what numbers really are, nor do they understand the concept of infinity, it's become an illogical clusterfuck.

Methshot
Methshot

I fear you don't actually know what you're talking about. Mathematicians are very much aware of what numbers are and mean. They also understand infinity. Set theorists have the best grasp, because they consider ideas related to infinite beyond the standard ZFC.

Flameblow
Flameblow

False. You can't do philosophy without mathematics.

SniperWish
SniperWish

Mathematicians nowadays don't even know what numbers really are, nor do they understand the concept of infinity, it's become an illogical clusterfuck.

I really hope you are trolling.

RavySnake
RavySnake

Modern philosophy have the same quality as modern art.
It's verbose word wankering with nothing meaningful said. Whatever is said is subjective feelings and hunches coated in logical fallacies.
It's an amateur show.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

A businessman is to an economist what an engineer is to a physicist

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Yes I'm sure Derrida knows what numbers "really" are.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

I'm sure you'd agree infinity doesn't end, but do you believe it also doesn't have a beginning?

haveahappyday
haveahappyday

this is what philosophy brainlets think number theory is

takes2long
takes2long

This is continental sophistry. There is also science-based analytical philosophy.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

Economics is not repeatable.
Is geology "repeatable"? Is cosmology "repeatable"? Is evolutionary biology "repeatable"?

Playboyize
Playboyize

It's a simple question brainlets, yes or no?

Techpill
Techpill

I'm sure you'd agree infinity doesn't end, but do you believe it also doesn't have a beginning?
It may or may not have a beginning. [math]\mathbb{R}_{\geq 0}[/math] has a least element, but [math]\mathbb{R}_{>0}[/math] does not.

Methshot
Methshot

infinity is the concept of something not having an ending
but we define the set aleph null as the smallest infinity, assigning a number to each object in a set we never find a largest number, there's always another object to count.
but you can start anywhere you fucking retard.

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

You're asking the right questions. They are not repeatable therefore they are not science no matter how much they think they are, they are a subset of metaphysics.

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

Seems like something starts at the end of countable infinity that extends to uncountable infinity.

For instance, consider the primary electronic energy levels in Hydrogen as diagonal entries in a Hermitian Hamiltonian matrix. Starting with the Lyman, Balmer, Paschen, Brackett, and Pfund levels, the matrix is infinite but only countably infinite as the energy levels climb to the Rydberg excitations near the ionization energy. There are countably infinite integer labeled energy shells in the atom. However, what happens to the diagonal entries of Hamiltonian operator for energies above the ionization energy? They say "the entries become delta functions" but that leaves a little more to be desired with regards to understanding the transition of the structure precisely at the ionizing energy. That is the energy where the spectrum of available eigenstates transitions from a discrete spectrum to a continuous one at the [math]n=\infty[/math] atomic energy level.

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Emberburn
Emberburn

evolution isn't real
/pol/

Evilember
Evilember

Ah, but is zero a number, or the lack of one?

If you have a starting point, you must then have an end point, it's logically impossible to have one without the other.

SniperWish
SniperWish

You're both dumb. Science has to do with natural reality. Economics has to do with social systems. Economics is just applied math. Not a science.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

social systems have nothing to do with reality

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RumChicken
RumChicken

explain why its logically impossible to have a start point but no end point

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Ah, but is zero a number, or the lack of one?
If you have a starting point, you must then have an end point, it's logically impossible to have one without the other.
Please tell me this is bait.

eGremlin
eGremlin

countable infinity
uncountable infinity

Infinity is infinity. The property of being countable or uncountable cannot apply to it.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

If you have a starting point, you must then have an end point
Wrong. The natural numbers have a starting point but no ending point.

JunkTop
JunkTop

Put on your reading glasses or get something for your dyslexia.

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

It's logically impossible in the same way you cannot have up without down, the existence of one is contingent on the existence of the other, they cannot exist without each other.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

Is this the power of philosophy?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

I don't know what I'm talking about

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Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Economics has to do with social systems. Social systems are a part of reality. Science has to do with natural reality. Therefore economics is a science. QED.

whereismyname
whereismyname

The "starting" point being zero? What properties does zero have that makes it a number?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Are you guys purposefully being deceitful. NATURAL reality, not reality. The social systems developed by humans were constructed. They weren't principles of how the universe works like physics or chemistry, or how life works like biology.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

What's your argument?

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

you've just said the exact same thing.
tell me why this is the case.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

humans are above the nature and the universe not a part of it

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Humans are not above nature. Human physiology is a science. Human anatomy is a science. Studying the social systems constructed by humans is a "social science", which is not real science.

King_Martha
King_Martha

humans bear the uncanny ability to magically create non-natural realities

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

It's the binary nature of things, nothing could exist without it.

farquit
farquit

/thread

viagrandad
viagrandad

Good posts, have (You)s

Techpill
Techpill

I don't agree infinity doesn't end. Infinite doesn't have an imposed order until you add more relations and operations.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Why /pol/? Most creationists nowadays are leftists.

TechHater
TechHater

I don't agree infinity doesn't end.

So would you then conclude that infinity can have a beginning and an end?

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Agreed

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

lmao epistemology says nothing of use

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

Again, if the right kind of order relation is imposed. Consider the set of elements in the closed interval [0, 1]. One might argue that 0 is the beginning of this interval, being the lowest term.

Soft_member
Soft_member

Aren't the brackets the beginning and end?

massdebater
massdebater

Epistemology depends on biology. Things are not arranged in these naive hierarchies.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

fallacyfiles.org/etymolog.html

SniperGod
SniperGod

You could say natural reality is reflective of the decisions and choices made by various individuals. Von Neumann wrote an economics work.

There was someone asking how physics can be applied to economics. They are the same thing... taken from the penultimate chapter of Fisher’s Mathematical Investigations...

A particle corresponds to an individual. Space corresponds to commodity. Force corresponds to marginal (dis)utility. Work corresponds to disutility. Energy corresponds to utility.

Work or Energy = force x space
Disutility or utility = marginal utility x commodity

Force is a vector (directed in space)
Marginal utility is a vector (directed in commodity)

Forces are added by vector addition (parallelogram of forces)
Marginal utility are added by vector addition (parallelogram of marginal utility)

Work and Energy are scalars
Disutility and utility are scalars.

It goes on and on in the similarities, that’s just an excerpt

WebTool
WebTool

What are the brackets for?

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

I agree. Here is an interesting post in an Alt-Right blog defending the mainstream academic economics.
socialmatter.net/2018/01/05/in-defense-of-academic-economics/

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Epistemology
Without fail, any time you see someone arguing from an epistemological position here it will always amount to "muh uncorroborated experience is primary, science can't know nuffin!"

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

Would [0,1 or 0,1] work?

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Almost any genuinely valuable Economics is not biased.
See

Not biased.

Unfortunately, when you read economists like Ludwig Von Mises there is literally a chapter at the end of the book intended to be a political polemic full of invectives against the left. It’s sad, really, what Austrian ‘’’’’economists’’’’’’ have done to economics.

You’d want at the very LEAST Keynesian economics, and if you really want to get mathematical, then you’d be interested in Neoclassical.

whereismyname
whereismyname

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

Not Naturalized Epistemology, which is based on neuroscience and evolutionary biology.

Soft_member
Soft_member

dodging the question

Inmate
Inmate

Dodging the answer. Read and learn. Math is built on notation. If you don't understand the notation, you can't effectively communicate in math.

Methshot
Methshot

I know what the answer is, but I want to see if you do.

Emberfire
Emberfire

It doesn't seem like you do, since almost any high school student who has seen any sort of function course knows how interval notation works.

eGremlin
eGremlin

Dodging again. I'll try a different approach. Is the first bracket the beginning of the set, and the second one the end?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Does this mean that to be a proper Biologist you need to understand Philosophy, Math, Physics and Chemistry on top of the knowledge base of your subject?

Because I agree. And I am proud of all my Biologybros who succeed in synthesizing all this understanding to achieve meaningful outcomes for humanity.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

I've already answered your question. You just don't want to think and learn. Very sad.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

No one takes most of the second wave and on of the Austrian school seriously (Hayek is the only salvageable one) except for lolbertarians and other free market cultists, it's more economic/political thought or philosophy, if we want to be generous, than real economics. It's strange because the first wave was nothing like this and played an important role in the marginalist revolution (most of the current day Austrian fanboys couldn't even name them) so I don't understand what happened after that.

5mileys
5mileys

Carl Menger is absolutely fascinating. You’re right, I’m sure economists like Léon Walras and Carl Menger would have agreed on many different things but it seems these days they are really politicized. Tis a shame, that’s for certain.

I loved Carl Menger’s theories of natural monopolies. You don’t see much talk of that kind of thing in economics, usually the State is referred to as the only originator of monopolies. But they naturally occur and companies tend to separate into stepped income ranges when they market the goods in a burgeoning industry. It’s all very well thought out.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

No you dumbfuck, it's just a set, as in unordered

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