What is going on with hearts that this is so difficult?

Playboyize
Playboyize

Literally just a pump
The best anyone can do is keep someone alive on one for up to 4 years (and a couple times a little longer by replacing the "old" artificial heart with a new artificial heart)
What is going on with hearts that this is so difficult?

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PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

no regeneration

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

blood clotting

Nojokur
Nojokur

Pumps tend to act as macerators not good for blood cells.

likme
likme

So if you replaced the blood with artificial blood too then it'd be OK?
Sounds like we just need to go fully artificial and that biology's the problem.

Emberfire
Emberfire

my jarvik 5 is pretty good. i heard yamahas are decent.

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Evilember
Evilember

No you don't understand, If the pump breaks you die, it doesn't matter what type of blood you have. Normally the heart is constantly being maintained by the body but the artificial pump is not.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Can't you just install three artificial hearts then? No way are all three going to break simultaneously.

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

There's only one place to put the heart. All the vessels meet in one place and veins are full of one way valves.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

No for the same reason you don't have three engines in your car.
3x surgery 3x space used in chest 3x chance of complications

Bidwell
Bidwell

Look at the design constraints...

The pump has to work flawlessly 24/7 for 80+ years.

The fluid the pump has to work with will clot itself if doesn't move around enough.

Most materials damage blood cells.

Oh, and it also has be strong enough to push fluid through two seperate systems and balance the pressure between them so they don't explode.

The best we are going to be able to get is growing spare ones from stem cells.

TreeEater
TreeEater

what are electric cars
what are airplanes
what are rockets
what are million other things with redundancy
Brainlet retard.

Evilember
Evilember

his allegory might be wrong, but the core statement is correct. and please watch your language.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Artifical hearts just haven't been as successful as we thought. Their value is only in keeping someone alive to wait for a transplant.

Now heart assistance devices are very cool and certainly have a lot of hope with them. No reason to remove a heart that is partially working if you can assist it.

whereismyname
whereismyname

@9616867

I already reported his toxic post, though the system in place is very counter intuitive and it took a while to figure it out.

I suggest other users do the same.

That language is not acceptable and it's up to us to stop it.

Illusionz
Illusionz

You get to experiment with animals though, right? That sounds not very difficult at all if you have some time and an endless supply of animals to test pumps on.

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Redundancy does not trump the fact that you have to start with a human body and change things from there. Why don't you have two hearts already?

Garbage Can Lid
Garbage Can Lid

Because biology is mindless retardation instead of deliberate engineering?

viagrandad
viagrandad

Because biology is mindless retardation
No. because the advantage of having two hearts is not significant enough to push that particular mutation.

hairygrape
hairygrape

Just because an advantage of a hypothetical new trait is "significant" doesn't mean biology will produce it. If something works well enough you can plateau there, it doesn't mean where you're plateauing at is the best configuration to stop at, it just means it's working well enough to persist. Nature isn't trying to win any design awards.

Skullbone
Skullbone

Because redundancy already comes from how that one heart is treated by the body? If we can't engineer identical replacement then work around is needed. Surprised that is a concept so difficult to grasp. Autism?

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

Your body can't maintain it, so you need to replace it regularly. Replacing the heart is a difficult and dangerous operation, so doing it often will probably kill you at some point. And is also very, very expensive.

I wonder though if you could just change the location of the heart, putting it somewhere where it is easily accessible and can be maintained easier.

RavySnake
RavySnake

evolution doesn't want you to live forever, in fact after you reproduce and make sure your offspring reaches adulthood, you might as well die already, stop competing for resources.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

evolution doesn't want you to live forever
Yeah, that's what I said, biology's mindless retardation, not deliberate engineering.

PurpleCharger
PurpleCharger

what good do you do living forever/indefinitely? from a social point of view it's only damaging.

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

That sounds not very difficult at all
To a layman that can sit here and say "It's just a pump lol make a pump dumb scientists" of course it sounds easy. Threads like this piss me off so damn much.

Supergrass
Supergrass

Surprised that is a concept so difficult to grasp. Autism?
I'll set you up as a straw man and then insult you to make me feel better.
Thanks for admitting your failures as a person.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

But you have all the animals you want to test it on. Just keep practicing, it's not like you can fail to make a pump after trying to do so 1,000 times in a row, eventually you'll figure it out.
And this is something that literally grew out of the Earth with 0 forethought.

Lunatick
Lunatick

Don't tell anyone you heard it from me, but engineers design systems expecting limited lifetime all the time.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

Pretty lazy desu.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

And this is something that literally grew out of the Earth with 0 forethought.
What did they mean by this?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

That it literally grew out of the Earth with 0 forethought. Unless you believe in pamspermia I guess.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

No complicated closed system can last very long for lack of maintenance. Except for satellites and shit

farquit
farquit

So you plant seeds and human hearts sprout out after the rain. Pretty weird religion you have there.

cum2soon
cum2soon

It's possible to be *this* autistic?

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Techpill
Techpill

Is it possible to be *this* reductive?

Snarelure
Snarelure

but i aint jamaican man

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Do you always react like a little bitch when called out?

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Why are almost all life science threads on Veeky Forums so painful? I respect and enjoy pursuits of math, physics, chemistry, and biology, and while I don't get the autism behind it, I sort of respect engineers. But the moment you introduce a somewhat abstract idea, or almost any issue of biology, these autists sperg out. Why are basic principles- not even biological ones, but things like selection, equilibrium, etc. which are simply mathematical models, not understood at all by a lot of people on Veeky Forums?

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

Do you think it's fair to blame engineers rather than the people of Veeky Forums. I mean you have no evidence that anyone in this thread is older than 16.

Supergrass
Supergrass

You have an excellent point. I think my frustration with engineers in the real world leaked into my criticism of people in this thread and on Veeky Forums in general.

That being said, in the real world I can talk to most mathematicians, chemists, or physicists about biological concepts (especially relating to the molecular/statistical bits) without any large gap in understanding. But with engineers (and fucking doctors for christ's sake) I can't hold a conversation about anything related to biology without them shrugging everything off, or saying stuff about biology just being full of theories instead of facts.

I apologize though for being a faggot about engineers, since some, I assume, are good people.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

reduce your dietary cholerterol to the absolute minimum
do cardio
don't be a geneticslet
It's literally that easy.

Sir_Gallonhead
Sir_Gallonhead

I get where you are coming from. I am an engineer and my mother is a bio professor/veterinarian. I am lucky to have that influence and understanding. Sometimes I think It's less the fault of engineering and more the type of people that tend to gravitate toward engineering.

MPmaster
MPmaster

muh cholesterol

remember to apply leeches too

Techpill
Techpill

The topic is artificial hearts, not "eat healthy and don't have heart problems." You fucking brainlet.

TreeEater
TreeEater

I know you like your fried chicken, but that doesn't mean that science is wrong.

SniperGod
SniperGod

the heart has regenerative capacity its just really bad (something like 1% of cardiomyocytes regenerate per year)

furthermore, have a look at induced cardiomyocytes

Spamalot
Spamalot

i was talking about artificial one

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New_Cliche
New_Cliche

it has to work continuously with no option for repair or replacement if it does break down.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Retard

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

Do you have to use a solar panel on your back to make it work?

massdebater
massdebater

F A G G O T

SniperWish
SniperWish

Biology is the last of the low hanging fruit in science.

StonedTime
StonedTime

This. We can do better than evolution (and in many areas already do).

Prove it.

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

That diagram looks pretty complex to me user.

happy_sad
happy_sad

muh fee-fees got hurt
Good fucking lord, you are a massive faggot.

w8t4u
w8t4u

Is a human chest an electric car or plane? Can you reasonably make it 3x larger to accommodate having 3 hearts and 3 circulatory systems?

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

Obviously its unnatural and sin against nature.

Techpill
Techpill

You want to do something?? try this out!
media.giphy.com/media/47xqMrjTiFPslA0AOK/giphy.gif

TreeEater
TreeEater

most materials do yeah!
check this out:
media.giphy.com/media/47xqMrjTiFPslA0AOK/giphy.gif

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

when you want to solve a puzzle cuz that is what you are trying to do, you should try this:
media.giphy.com/media/47xqMrjTiFPslA0AOK/giphy.gif
look at it take your time :D

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

since you are talking about engineers look at this:
it is awesome !
media.giphy.com/media/47xqMrjTiFPslA0AOK/giphy.gif
i tried it!

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

What is going on with hearts that this is so difficult?
Difficult? What's difficult?
David Rockefeller gets 6th heart transplant at age 99 (2015)

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

That was a biological heart, not an artificial heart.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

Ah, right you are.
Though perhaps qualifying for a 6th biological heart at the age of 99 is quite the unusual feat in itself.

WebTool
WebTool

It's a pretty complicated pump and we don't have bionic anything yet. So getting a texhnolyzed heart is gonna be hard.

likme
likme

You cant really put it anywhere else because the arteries that grow out of it need to be really T H I C K to handle the pressure and only the aorta is up to the task

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

my guess is this:
the heart adjusts pump rate dynamically based on physical and emotional state. there is no known way to mimic the exact sensitivity the heart has to this information from the rest of the body.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

O transcendent genius of physics and mechanical engineering, would your grace bless us with your design for a triple redundant, high efficiency, low-power-cost, and low profile pump system that can fit in a mango-sized area?

DeathDog
DeathDog

The heart doesn't have access to that information. Your brain just controls it like every other muscle

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

The future belongs to those who bench press the most

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Wrong. The heart responds to circulating cathecolamines as well, secreted by the adrenals. The transplanted heart is denervated but still adjusts to exercise and emotion.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

the material is not as flexible as the original heart tissue
your circulatory system is based around letting arteries and veins stretch, so that the pressure of the blood does not overburden particular arteries and veins
when you replace the flexible tissue of the heart with any type of plastic, the arteries and veins connecting to it are stretched out more and more by blood that otherwise would have stretched out the heart tissue, damaging those arteries and veins
this is especially true of the boundary between the artificial heart and the natural veins

Skullbone
Skullbone

Interesting how after every mass extinction a new color comes. What would happen in the case if half the planet got wiped?

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

I heard we already offed about half of the total wildlife on the planet. Not half the species, but half the total amount that was there before we began fucking things up, just to be clear.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Doctors are applied scientists like engineers. For any meaningful discussion of advanced topics like these you need to speak with a biologist.

I’m a medfag and I have a decent grasp of biology, chemistry, and physics, but most of my education centered around memorizing diseases, symptoms, and structures rather than evolutionary theory. I’m guessing other doctors are the same unless they went an MD/PhD and are heavily involved with research.

DeathDog
DeathDog

Observe.

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CodeBuns
CodeBuns

Being healthy in the first place is a much easier solution tho

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