Is Virignia Wollf the greatest prose stylist ever?

no.

Ye, but that doesn't detract from To the Lighthouse being a masterpiece as well. The Waves is far more relate-able and intimate, and the prose is often more sublime.

Oh fuck off. People love Woolf because she was genuinely a masterful writer. If The Waves didn't make you cry you're inhuman.

"alpha" virgins like you are the worst.

why you putting shit in scarequotes he didn't say

>delillo

TTL > The Waves > Mrs Dalloway imo
I should read TTL again

How isn't Woolf a second-rate Proust ? Most french writers are indifferent to her work, and I really do wonder what she had to say.

Comparing Woolf and Proust is absolutely retarded. Their writing styles are completely different. Woolf was far more experimental, while Proust cared a lot about capturing the spirit of the french people and culture, so it's no surprise that he's a lot more popular with the French.

what if his offspring is yet unborn? How long would you wait? Be precise in your insults please.

The Table scene in TTL is unparalleled.
And her lyricism in The Waves is faultless.

>I really do wonder what she had to say

a lot if you don't go in rooting for her failure, just like Joyce, its easy to dismiss her genius as pretension if you want to

>tfw no qt insecure rhoda gf

>Comparing Woolf and Proust is absolutely retarded.
Keep telling yourself that lol. Even Simon is superior to that woman.

>If The Waves didn't make you cry you're inhuman.

can't we settle for 'catching a feel'? i've cried once in my adult life, i dont think its normal or healthy thing for men to do

like what's a blubbering man-baby going to do when a machete wielding junkie breaks into the garage at 2AM? cry? probably

De bien ternes apitoiements aristocrates...

sarcastic French quotes with trailing punctuation don't make you smart

>crying at something sublime and intimately emotion is being a man-baby
What? There's nothing wrong with shedding a few tears every now and then for something genuinely sad and beautiful. It's completely normal and healthy to let out a few tears every now and then, rather than bottling up your emotions so that you can pretend to be some alpha robot.

>like what's a blubbering man-baby going to do when a machete wielding junkie breaks into the garage at 2AM? cry?
Wouldn't you cry too if you had to wake up for class in a few hours and now you have to deal with some machete wielding junkie and then the police afterwards?

Completely different style. She's a second-rate Joyce if anything.

Sarcastic ? No.

Glad we agree she's second-rate. Her best work sure can't match Ulysses.

>bottling up your emotions so that you can pretend to be some alpha robot.

straw man. while you are a blubbering man baby, i am most certainly not an alpha robot. most alphas aren't robots either, you're confusing them with autists.

and never forget, shedding a *single manly tear* is NOT crying

>Wouldn't you cry too if you had to wake up for class in a few hours and now you have to deal with some machete wielding junkie and then the police afterwards?

man, no.

>Wouldn't you cry too if you had to wake up for class in a few hours and now you have to deal with some machete wielding junkie and then the police afterwards?
Most definitely no, lol. Haha.

Not really like Joyce either. Closest relative is George Eliot with Middlemarch.
>Her best work sure can't match Ulysses
They're trying for such wildly different things this is pointless. They share a technique, not a vision.

Okay, then name some people who are better than her.

whose best work matches Ulysses? please tell me

A book, is a book. That reasoning of yours is too precious (specious?) for me.

20th century ? Proust and Musil, as far as novel goes.

The reasoning behind elevating Ulysses as high as you have runs opposite to the aims of TTL. She's not second-rate (especially not a second-rate Joyce). Is Lowry as second-rate Joyce as well? He also wrote beam-of-conscious, so he must be.

I don't agree she's second-rate JOYCE, that was made clear already.

no, but she is damn deserving of her praise. part of my unreleting IRE at contemporary cultural theorists is the desire to promote works by women and colored people without recognizing the merits (or lack thereof) of the people in question.

why do people put jane austen over virginia woolf? why do they laud sylvia plath and maya angelou, but mostly ignore emily dickinson and elizabeth browning? where, on this list, can i find my historical waifu—ada lovelace?

biographyonline.net/people/women-who-changed-world.html

these things boggle the mind, though my criticism remains terribly sad and banal, in a way.

Stylistically, and more generally aesthetically, Ulysses had a huge influence on Mrs Dalloway. Thematically she lies somewhere between Proust and Joyce, but technique is part of the theme and thus more important in modernist fiction.

>and never forget, shedding a *single manly tear* is NOT crying
You sound really insecure.

butthurt lib fag detected, truth hurts faggit!

Don't forget Alejo Carpentier and Gabriel García Márquez.

>‘You have been reading Byron. You have been marking the passages that seem to approve of your own character. I find marks against all those sentences which seem to express a sardonic yet passionate nature; a moth-like impetuosity dashing itself against hard glass. You thought, as you drew your pencil there, “I too throw off my cloak like that. I too snap my fingers in the face of destiny”. Yet Byron never made tea as you do, who fill the pot so that when you put the lid on the tea spills over. There is a brown pool on the table – it is running among your books and papers. Now you mop it up clumsily, with your pocket-handkerchief. You then stuff your handkerchief back into your pocket –that is not Byron; that is you; that is so essentially you that if I think of you in twenty years’ time, when we are both famous, gouty and intolerable, it will be by that scene: and if you are dead, I shall weep. Once you were Tolstoi’s young man; now you are Byron’s young man; perhaps you will be Meredith’s young man; then you will visit Paris in the Easter vacation and come back wearing a black tie some detestable Frenchman whom nobody has ever heard of. Then I shall drop you.

>‘I am one person – myself. I do not impersonate Catullus, whom I adore.

Ok, i'll give her a try. Do someone know if the brasilian translations is good or should i search for a original version?

women can't write authentic works and you're stupid and easily fooled if you actually like Woolf

cut yr dick off

Please read in English with an internet connection. It's not like you're going to read it only once any way so take your time and go slow. Translations are bad.

make me, slut

Real men hate Woolf and realize that she's inferior to the white man

Liberal numales think she's good.

FACT. Try the redpill

cut his dick off

>tfw no qt repressed susan gf

For a woman.

I bet all your favorite authors read translations. Stop with this pedantry.

Of course not. Her consists chiefly of gimmicks

Precisely this. Writes a generic English prose without any stylistic innovation. There are dozens of minor writers with better prose- Bret Harte, Walter Savage Landor, HL Mencken, etc

You sound like that guy who goes to poetry readings and sits in a corner with a cigarette scoffing at everyone's poems, muttering about the emotional fragility of people enjoying sad, human poetry.

You sound like someone who'd like rupi kaur.

Jesus Christ, this is so fucking faggoty.

This is why I stopped reading at the beginning of The Waves.

>"I see Louis getting plowed by a large-girthed Negro," said Susan. "Louis! Louis! Louis! I love you so, Louis! Why did you give me up for the large-girthed Negro? I will go take my agony and gently insert it inside my cunt, under the cherry-tree. I will be alone with my agony inside of my cunt."

Who could read this fucking tripe?

I was just encouraging him to learn English assuming his native tongue was Portuguese. You've got absolutely the wrong idea m8. Don't ever call me a pedant again. My ex used to call me that and then she married me.

Also so I don't sound too assholey, I at least liked Mrs. Dalloway and To The Lighthouse. They both occasionally had this same really annoying feminine wishy-washy tone, with really annoying, unlikable, bitchy characters, but were more well-written at least.

But The Waves is genuinely awful writing and almost autistic. It's the worst stylistic innovation I've ever seen in my life, to have these characters talk in idiotic, overly formal monologues.

It's genuinely awkward and bad writing, and betrays her complete lack of insight into the psyche of any real human beings whatsoever. The excerpt I posted before was clearly a parody but here is a real example of some of her awful writing from The Waves:

>‘Through the chink in the hedge,’ said Susan, ‘I saw her kiss him. I raised my head from my flower-pot and looked through a chink in the hedge. I saw her kiss him. I saw them, Jinny and Louis, kissing. Now I will wrap my agony inside my pocket-handkerchief. It shall be screwed tight into a ball. I will go to the beech wood alone, before lessons. I will not sit at a table, doing sums. I will not sit next Jinny and next Louis. I will take my anguish and lay it upon the roots under the beech trees. I will examine it and take it between my fingers. They will not find me. I shall eat nuts and peer for eggs through the brambles and my hair will be matted and I shall sleep under hedges and drink water from ditches and die there.’

There's hardly any ifs, ands, or buts about it --- this is genuinely awful, melodramatic writing, and people on Veeky Forums loving it betrays their awful taste.

Rather than ever reaching towards any great emotional climaxes, Woolf always succeeds in using poetic prose to create melodramatic, obviously insincere, overly-heightened hysterics.

And when she's not trying to be particularly "emotional", her characters, without exception, are all bland, smirking, narcissistic, amused, overly-polite, formal, and passive-aggressive bourgeois assholes who, whether they are meant to be male or female, have the psyche of women.

I myself find it hard to sympathize with rich snobs who instantly turn into hysterics when the cakes are spoiled and the party is ruined, and have the psyche of complete snobs otherwise, oh-so-subtly going over in their heads how other people around them are assholes and they are the best.

There runs a subtle thread in Woolf's works of contempt, pity, and hatred for anything or anyone too slovenly, poor, or violent. Her characters are all refined and sensitive creatures filled with infinite wells of snobbishness and passive-aggression.

Basically, fuck Woolf, she can be a good stylist, but, like Updike, should more often be accused of being an awful psychologist.

I know this is a meme but to stop reading at the beginning of The Waves because of the prose is stupid. The prose is intentionally simplistic and childlike at the beginning because the characters are children. By the end of the book it gets significantly more complex and reflective: less simple observations and desires

>reading without a sense of irony
>I don't like the characters, this book sucks!

When will you learn, Veeky Forums?

If she's not it's close.

I have no problem with any of that. Would you rather it read like, "I saw Jinny and Louis kissing behind some shrubbery," said Susan. "I was so bummed out that I wanted to die."

you forgot the desu

>There runs a subtle thread in Woolf's works of contempt, pity, and hatred for anything or anyone too slovenly, poor, or violent. Her characters are all refined and sensitive creatures filled with infinite wells of snobbishness and passive-aggression.

But all the characters in The Waves look up to Percival, who is defined by his martial nature.