/Moldbug/

Fanged Noumena

Oh my fuck, just go back to fucking TRS.

just read his twitter and xenosystems posts

everything else is a meth-fueled deleuzian mess and you will regret wasting money on it

if that's really the problem why are you wasting your time on a literature forum that seems like that would take a lot of work and planning to handle

>continually referring to Moldbug as "the Grand Master"

as if you guys couldn't get any lamer - you've gone and done it

It's helpful to read and digest Deleuze & Guattari first.

Acceleration
jacobitemag.com/2017/05/25/a-quick-and-dirty-introduction-to-accelerationism/
youtube.com/watch?v=Q8T2ZJv_y6k&list=PLM6AzdvgK2LJMLHhI3Yeouy-3jiAKcvuB&index=1

DE:
thedarkenlightenment.com/the-dark-enlightenment-by-nick-land/

Two threads on Veeky Forums right now.

Upset, Moshe?

...

>I heard through the grapevine that the main purpose of his blog was to attract the right element to this venture
I don't know, I've heard a good argument that they were a reaction to him finally experiencing the living nightmare known as San Francisco.

>if that's really the problem why are you wasting your time on a literature forum that seems like that would take a lot of work and planning to handle
Even putting the poor grammar and lack of punctuation aside, this makes no sense wrt anything I said.

moldbuggian absolutism is a legit interesting contribution to contemporary political philosophy mi amigo

there shall be peace in the realm someday

my point is that jews seem to have a lot of power, and its going to take a lot of work to reverse that, so why are you wasting your time shitposting instead of figuring out your plan to topple international jewry

also if jews are the problem why would you out yourself as a antisemite? they're probably tracking you down and rendering you impotent against them as we speak :^)

HAHAHAHAHA
How's Urbit doing, Curtis?

You're making an assumption in the first part; and in the second, you're using a term (antisemitism) as if it means something, or is an unnatural response. Got some of that desert blood in you, don't you?

nietzsche: stop degenerating
moldbug: stop degenerating
peterson: stop degenerating
literally everyone: stop degenerating

makes you think

fpbp

you prefer radical populism and caesarism to aristocracy and praise spengler at the same time?

this makes no sense. spengler was a junker aristocrat who turned down the nazis

mobilizing the masses into a blood-hungry mob is dumb when they already are a blood-hungry mob

your post is dumb

so is this

There is a time for aristocrats and a time for caesars. The time for aristocrats has passed. Spengler foresaw that. I say let's embrace history to the fullest and fulfill it. Let's go from money politics to power politics. Power for the sake of itself. Let's celebrate the frenzy of violence, the bloodlust of the mob. The crown goes to the man who can tame it for a while. Panem et circenses. Caesar after caesar. Crassus rules America now but Caesar's time will come. He's already here.

...

>let's celebrate the frenzy of violence, the bloodlust of the mob
let's not

This. Wasn't that one of the cardinal mistakes of the 20th century?

not only the 20C

just dropping a truthpill for all of my interested-in-NRx brethren

technocommercialism (think Land) is the future, but it will cause a societal collapse that allows you to live in the past. You can choose: transhumanism and civilization? Or 'barbarism' that 100% authentically human.

The future is one of metropoles, the likes of which we have never seen, and their wartorn suburbs; surrounded by a patchwork of primarily agrarian city states and communes.

You'll be better off with reading Guenon, Schuon, de Maistre, Burke, Kuehnelt-Leddihn etc.

>radical populism
see: sicilian expedition

julius evola feels bad that he didn't make that list

also moldbug loved this guy

>etc
uhhh, you can keep going m8, I'm taking notes

>primarily agrarian
why?

Ive seeing so many things ascribed to accelerationism, it seems like a new Santa that's coming to breing all that we wish.
If Land took out the marxism from Deleuze and Guattari he sure didn't take out the judaic (heh) messianism from Marx.

No, let's really do it. Let's lynch some people. Put minorities in camps! Shoot our enemies! Let's believe in petty conspiracy theories. Let's build castles in the sky. Let's believe in the absurdity of being, the absurdity of speed, action, time! How beautiful it is to be alive each day. We must escape this dreadful machinery of capitalism that reduces us to mindless consumers. A man is so much more than that. Each man should be a hero and live as such. Oh, how I long for an Alexander, a Caesar, a Bonaparte, even a Mussolini.

not that user but here are some reading lists for you

amerika.org/books/

higher-order.tumblr.com/post/143073311886/the-traditional-mind-a-reading-list

amnation.com/vfr/archives/006256.html

Sure evola too, but there's more to him than just the three books most people talk about.. He's become like a meme for larping reactionaries...

>why?
because capital agglomerates
and the people who flee the metropole will be scared shitless

>i don't care if it's alexander, caesar, bonaparte, or mussolini
it matters which one you pick

i can't tell if you're memeing or not but shine on you fabulous bloodthirsty conspiratorial diamond. maybe you'll enjoy marinetti

>We shall sing the great masses shaken with work, pleasure, or rebellion: we shall sing the multicolored and polyphonic tidal waves of revolution in the modern metropolis; shall sing the vibrating nocturnal fervor of factories and shipyards burning under violent electrical moons; bloated railroad stations that devour smoking serpents; factories hanging from the sky by the twisting threads of spiraling smoke; bridges like gigantic gymnasts who span rivers, flashing at the sun with the gleam of a knife; adventurous steamships that scent the horizon, locomotives with their swollen chest, pawing the tracks like massive steel horses bridled with pipes, and the oscillating flight of airplanes, whose propeller flaps at the wind like a flag and seems to applaud like a delirious crowd

i'll pass on the lynching tho

true, i like him also

posting a link for anons
juliusevola.co/library/

>"Oh, that's a bit illiberal"

Like everybody else on here I'm half-serious and half-memeing. Also if you have that pic from here, you have it probably from me. I post it regularly.

And you are not wrong. I wrote speed because of Marinetti. I'm well aware of the futurists. Sorel was another influence. Still, like it or not, I think humanity has an atavistic need for autistic bouts of violence and irrationality. I think it's healthy.

It's not just healthy. It's human.

glad to know we understand each other

i'm increasingly poetry>politics and literature> LARP

>Still, like it or not, I think humanity has an atavistic need for autistic bouts of violence and irrationality
i would agree

>I think it's healthy
you're probably right

>i'm increasingly poetry>politics and literature> LARP
I think a great sin of our age is to politicize everything. In contemporary mass democracy you are always forced to make a choice, you are even encouraged to do so, be it on instagram, twitter, facebook or elsewhere. There is no nuance in this world anymore. Everybody has to have one opinion on something and can be attacked by anybody through the internet. The private is forced into the public sphere, the res publica, the republic. Inevitably, this will lead to violence as it is the nature of politics to pit friend against foe and the nature of democracy to force homogenization.

I myself am primarily occupied with aesthetics and morality nowadays. I'm much more interested in what is good and beautiful than what party to follow. My political views are influenced by a certain aestheticism though. I cannot escape the fact that I see politics as a battle for the position of who gets to define beauty for all of society. That might be protofascist, I don't know.

>I think a great sin of our age is to politicize everything
yes yes my man

>There is no nuance in this world anymore
yup

>Everybody has to have one opinion on something and can be attacked by anybody through the internet. The private is forced into the public sphere, the res publica, the republic. Inevitably, this will lead to violence as it is the nature of politics to pit friend against foe and the nature of democracy to force homogenization.
i'm starting to wonder if we are not the same person

>I myself am primarily occupied with aesthetics and morality nowadays. I'm much more interested in what is good and beautiful than what party to follow. My political views are influenced by a certain aestheticism though. I cannot escape the fact that I see politics as a battle for the position of who gets to define beauty for all of society. That might be protofascist, I don't know.
srsly it's getting weird

going to spam this but my guess is that you already know about it

wrathofgnon.tumblr.com/archive

>wrathofgnon.tumblr.com/archive
just follow the twitter instead @ the same

Is it me or does Moldbug really sort of drop off come 2013? I just read through Sam Altman is Not A Blithering Idiot and he seriously suggested banning plastic toys. I get what he was going for with that, but the idea that the US could get some comptroller general to basically reinstate a more primitive industrialism actually sounds like it would be closer to a disaster. The Carlyle seemed to rot out his economic brain.

That aside, here's some recent moldbug (January of this year) in case you all thought he was really dead. It might not be him, but it sounds like him and he uses all the same sorts of sources: lawrenceglarus.wordpress.com/2017/02/12/boldmug-says-scott-aaronsons-blog/

After reading what feels like his entire work, I have to say that his comments on other sites are often better than his independent essays if not just because he puts more effort into making the point instead of sounding like Carlyle.

Neocons are mostly defined by their foreign policy (Wars for Democracy etc.) which is something Moldbug explicitly rejects in favor of a less jacobinistic isolationist-pragmatic-imperialist position. Other than their aggressive foreign policy positions most Neocons are Social Democrats or Neoliberals, and are willing to do anything so long as 1) they get their wars 2) the Likud party in Israel likes it

sounds like it's about time to start reading leon krier

>If you have a barrel of fine wine, and you add a teaspoon of sewage, now you have a barrel of sewage
yes yes yes

Well the opinion on toys is a small scale application of a broader issue (importing tons of cheaply manufactured toys made by Chinese slave workers vs. having a domestic industry of skilled craftsmen). Luddism as a solution is not even that radical given the example of socialist make-work schemes. Here in Europe the government is always trying to invent fake busy-work for immigrants for assimilation purposes. Recently I was free-lancing for a European firm that does modular houses (asylum centers being one of the primary applications, but also schools and apartments), in order to pitch it to the government for funding. The construction process could feasibly be automated pretty easily, but the process we ended up using involved manual labor in order to sell it as a job creation scheme. So governments are already involved in and always looking for artificial job creation busy-work schemes, subsidizing industries to keep them from moving etc. In fact large portions of the global economy doesn't fill any practical function as it is.

Leon and Rob Krier are interesting in that their buildings are based on classical proportions but don't try to mimic previous styles slavishly. Leon's lectures are pretty good as well.
youtube.com/watch?v=kFiYL8AvvnY

This. I constantly hear people say "I don't care who you vote for, just get out there and vote".

We've fetishised the mere act of casting a vote as if it is some sort of intrinsically virtuous act. If you go into a shop and you see a load of goods you don't want to buy, you keep your money and you leave.

I guess I'm just not super fond of any of his "policy advice" essays, because sometimes these guidebooks seem to miss a lot of his own points (though the open letter to the Pakistani leader is a pretty decent read.)

I guess if I were him I wouldn't advocate too many specific economic systems/setups (like how he just says that it would be mercantilism), in favor of saying that rulers/governments should take pragmatic approaches to those matters (maybe just a readthrough of Sir William Petty.)

> Here in Europe the government is always trying to invent fake busy-work for immigrants for assimilation purposes. Recently I was free-lancing for a European firm that does modular houses (asylum centers being one of the primary applications, but also schools and apartments), in order to pitch it to the government for funding. The construction process could feasibly be automated pretty easily, but the process we ended up using involved manual labor in order to sell it as a job creation scheme.

And nobody ever stopped to think: "hmm maybe we're admitting too many of these immigrants, they can't find work and they're not assimilating. Their numbers should be reduced." Literally just don't let as many in and you wouldn't have this problem.

They can't think that, you have to understand that this isn't the work of malice but rather the work of moral insanity. The people that advocate the immense importation of migrants are worse religious fanatics than the ones that seep in;.

Speaking of all this, is Girardposter still around? I will always regret not printscreening those Bannon-threads he wrote after the election.

Sensible immigration controls?

WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS YOU RACIST FASCIST XENOPHOBIC PIG!

Historically, make-work programs have existed during periods of high domestic unemployment as well (such as New Deal programs and the Autobahn). So my point is that Moldbug's proposal is in itself not as radical one as one might think and not specific to neo-reactionary politics, it's just taken to a more extreme level (Luddism). I agree with your point on immigration but it's off-topic.

>and Spengler

I could be very wrong, but Spengler is seeming more and more off the mark, and Marx is becoming more and more prescient.

I would say that even then that the "luddism" Moldbug proposes is one of his usual tactics of proposing something ridiculous/extreme in order to get you to expand your overton window and think outside of the box. Sort of like how in Patchwork he sarcastically suggested turning senior citizens and the underclass into biofuel before moving onto slavery-holodecking them.

Yep, I'm here. There have been a couple good Land threads up recently, I've been in those. And Moldbug threads are always interesting too.

fuuka warosu

>why?
also, the cities need food (for now)

Anyone have a list of the obscure writers that Moldbug has referenced?

Meme trash. Time to kys Curtis.

just go through foseti's book reviews, he went through basically all of moldbug's recs

Both are right to a degree. Marx just made the mistake of assuming that the process of dialectics must necessarily lead to communism (the utopia, not the soviet model). Spengler was only right insofar as he predicted the rise of caesarism.

Once basic income has been put into place we will have a proletarian subclass like in ancient Rome.

>The people that advocate the immense importation of migrants are worse religious fanatics than the ones that seep in;.

This seems likely.

>tfw D+G were right about the people "craving fascism."

Yup.

>If, by being revolutionary, one means rational rebellion against intolerable social conditions, if, by being radical, one means "going to the root of things," the rational will to improve them, then fascism is never revolutionary. True, it may have the aspect of revolutionary emotions. But one would not call that physician revolutionary who proceeds against a disease with violent cursing but the other who quietly, courageously and conscientiously studies and fights the causes of the disease. Fascist rebelliousness always occurs where fear of the truth turns a revolutionary emotion into illusions.

>In its pure form, fascism is the sum total of all irrational reactions of the average human character. To the narrow-minded sociologist who lacks the courage to recognize the enormous role played by the irrational in human history, the fascist race theory appears as nothing but an imperialistic interest or even a mere "prejudice." The violence and the ubiquity of these "race prejudices" show their origin from the irrational part of the human character. The race theory is not a creation of fascism. No: fascism is a creation of race hatred and its politically organized expression. Correspondingly, there is a German, Italian, Spanish, Anglo-Saxon, Jewish and Arabian fascism.

You are wrong if you think I crave repression against myself. I crave repression of others so as to overcome my own repression.

someone linked a random tumblr on this thread (not wrathofgnon) that has a reading list which seems to include all of his odd recs (memoirs of service afloat, true history of the american revolution, etc)

alternatively just go to a uni library and read the first page of the preface for history books with weird titles. usually pretty revealing. i saw an old book that defended the crusaders and damn i wish id checked it out cause i never found it again.

>taking orgone man seriousy
shiggy diggy

not that user, but it's all ultimately the same though, isn't it. force and potency.

just by admitting it you've indicated however that you're aware of how intensely perverse all of this stuff ultimately is and how deep the roots of it go (as well as how far out the branches go).

reich was undeniably crazy in some aspects - blowing up clouds, the orgone closet, whatever, but there was enough there for deleuze and guattari

>juliusevola.co/library/
thanks for the link

No you fucking bigot lets fucking smash the patriarchy import people who were living like animals for 2k years but they are equal even though whites have been oppressing nonwhites for centuries and it will take the same to fix it and don't ever think of white pride, what are you a moron who prides on other people doings? Yes these things might be supposed to by the elites which are as pro capitalists as it gets but they are good people since they are for diversity but we need to tax the rich(only whites). These people might increase crimes with 80%, especially of murders and rapes of all ages but its a small sacrifice for the great communism. Yes I might be living in a rich white only gated community but you can't judge me as I have anxiety, bi polar disorded and a few more disabilities. Yes we want to destroy you but you deserve it even if you created the civilization and my safety since you oppressed people by giving them better infrastructure at a cost they couldn't and still cant use. I don't know why I'm I even talking with you, you don't even wear Raf or LV and drive a shitty car you fucking overpriviledged shitlord

The entire human existence is perverse. The state of nature is nasty, brutish and short and so are any derivative societies to varying degrees that arise out of this state of nature. You think you can rationalise everything but by doing so you fail to account for humanity's need for the irrational, for the perverse, for the grandiose, for excentricity. Rather than pathologising the imperfections of humanity we should embrace them. Social progress is a meme I don't care for. There is only technological progress and its benefits on society. We are and always will be animals. And that is a good thing.

I don't care for progress. I care for beauty or more precisely what I subjectively identify as beauty. And I have chosen to find beauty in the celebration of what you call perverse.

currently reading mille plateaux, just finished un seul ou plusieurs loups?

what more am i in for?

>now that we've used mob violence to take power and wreck the old culture let's contemplate the futility of using mob violence

>I don't care for progress. I care for beauty or more precisely what I subjectively identify as beauty. And I have chosen to find beauty in the celebration of what you call perverse.
i am unironically hoping you succeed in that

meltdown and becoming a full-throttle landposting goofball like the rest of us

ive already read land
on that reversal shit; haven't read Jung or Freud

get on it then mi amigo. carry that weight

i'm starting to convince myself that land and peterson are two poles of a crazy dialectic slingshotting itself towards the omega point so if you could read jung and freud too and post some shit on Veeky Forums that would either

a) stop me from going insane or
b) help me go insane just a little bit faster so that i wouldn't be so paranoid about whether i was losing my mind or finding it and could just go back to enjoying life again
c) [write in]

i'd greatly appreciate it

jung is interesting. i got here by reading freud/lacan first and now latterly deleuze, so jung is basically always playing catch-up. but i've been watching peterson lectures and they are pretty darn interesting

I lost you at 'benefits on society'.

Still a bit of meatcuckery left.

>Rather than pathologising the imperfections of humanity we should embrace them.

I am inclined to agree; human "perfection" is a myth and the stereotypical leftist idea that this perfection has been washed away by capitalism and turned "imperfect" is sort of reminiscent of the Biblical expulsion of Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, only given a secular Marxist paint job. Regardless though, I do not think I can agree with your "proto-fascist" (in the most qualified sense) sensibility, especially with this:

>Social progress is a meme I don't care for. There is only technological progress and its benefits on society. We are and always will be animals. And that is a good thing.

I don't care for progress. I care for beauty or more precisely what I subjectively identify as beauty. And I have chosen to find beauty in the celebration of what you call perverse.

Is it not possible to find "progress" (not in the Whig history sense but more in the sense that we should attempt to bring about a society of emancipated individuals) in our imperfections? The liberal/pesudo-Marxist perspective may be wrong in attempting to (re)build the perfect man but I also think it is dually incorrect for its opponents (fascists? reactionaries?) to say we should simply submit and "be animals." In all honesty, both Left and Right give easy all-encompassing answers to a more complex reality.

I reminded of this video (youtube.com/watch?v=P7v2bYt-YIY) from Zizek where he discusses love, nature, and perversity of life. In it, he deconstructs what we understand to be love – the romantic kind found in Hollywood – and claims love is actually "evil" and quite "perverse." For him, true love is not to find the perfect partner but rather to find perfection in the imperfect partner. In his analysis of nature, he dismantles the typical liberal nature-loving ecology and says they do not truly love nature if they do not except that nature is quite evil and destructive (think of hurricanes, tornados, black holes) In Zizek's mind, the true ecologist, the true lover of the Earth is one that accepts this and also accepts that we, human beings as part of this ecosystem, are also imperfect. At the end of video, Zizek points leftwards towards a pile of trash which the camera pans to: "the true ecologist loves this."

So you speak of irrationality and perversity of humanity and that perhaps only technology can fulfill this role but I think you do not go far enough; I find that love (the Zizekian kind, not the "love trumps hate" kind) is the most irrational and perverse thing a human can do. It's not that we should succumb to either our animalistic nature or some idealistic nature of what it means to be human, but how do we build an Ideal from our animalism.

I'm an atheist but stuff like this spawns a spontaneous attraction to Christianity. "We are born with sin, that is our nature" so says the preacher and yet, we have Christ.

based post

I started reading moldbug because I was interest in NRx but it turns out it wasn't a rejection of all of the enlightenment they were just edgy libertarians

pretty much

edgy libertarians invariably realize that the edge is too edgy for them and they either hang on and become vile craven scum or plummet into the redpilled darkness

i got a fat backlog but ill def start a deleuze thread once i finish

he's a jew you really can;t expect much more from him. He gave us the vocabulary- that's more than enough

>they were just edgy libertarians
confirmed for not reading past his 2007-8 stuff and xenosystems. He just writes for a libertarian audience, what he actually advocates is not necessarily libertarian.

Though I'd agree it isn't a "rejection of the enlightenment" as most of Moldbug's recommended models and writers are either enlightenment themselves (I think he mentioned Hume once, and Frederick the Great) or post-enlightenment, this is because what moldbug presents is more of a "complete enlightenment" or "reactionary enlightenment" and not a counter enlightenment as many like to try and sell it as.

Land sees this and explains it whenever he discusses NRx being less of an actual set of beliefs/policies and more of a framework (though I also think Land doesn't realize his readers haven't caught up in these regards.) Moldbug doesn't really know whether agrarian or urban lifestyles are better, or anything about what to do with gays, god, or guns, it's above his paygrade and it depends on the circumstances.

I can entertain the idea that he IS a libertarian, but also a reactionary. For Moldbug, at least, writing as a reactionary is completely different from writing as a libertarian, conservative, socialist, liberal, etc. One could be a conservative-reactionary or libertarian-reactionary, but you can't be a reactionary-progressive. It's all about opposition to the progressivism/idealism/universalism/crypto-calvinism

Calvinism is itself reactionary though.

I love this guy.

is there an epub of his best essays or something?

Have you seen the number of stars sold and money raised? Very solid vaporware.

"wanting to go back" is the dumb idiot shorthand understanding of reactionary. Moldbug's understanding of reactionary/progressive or right/left is as a monotonic slope of order/disorder. This is how anything can be reactionary or progressive depending on its historic context/political purpose.

There was a time in the past where libertarians who advocated for free trade and lassiez-faire were considered reactionary, but there was also a time before that where that was considered progressive. The difference between the two isn't only time, but for the purpose of what they wanted to do, reactionary-libertarians the 20th century wanted to protect the American social order from third-worldist style socialism in many cases while the progressive-libertarians (liberals) in the UK wanted free trade partially as a way to ruin the property values of the landed aristocrats.

Similarly with socialists, it's obvious that Hitler was a reactionary socialist, and Stalin managed to be both a revolutionary/progressive socialist AND a reactionary socialist just because of how long he lived. Similarly, many actual "nationalize this, redistribute that" socialists (thinking figures like corbyn and even bernie sanders to a degree) are reactionaries compared to the more corporatist style of clinton or blair.

today, calvinism as you find among the bible belt in US or Netherlands IS reactionary, but it isn't the calvinism that moldbug was talking about, as that progressive-universalist-calvinism is the calvinism of the diggers, dissenters, and other english church groups that ran around in the ECW and then went on to found America, form the ranks of its revolutionaries and founding fathers (not Hamilton, however), be its abolitionists in the republican party, and new dealers in the democratic party.

someone sells kindle versions on amazon

Found them all here!

github.com/KeithAnyan

epubs, mobi, pdf.. take your pick. all free.

Do you have an essential reading list of Moldbug? I read his whole "Open Letter to Progressive" series and really enjoyed it.

I'll list a few of my favorite posts off the top of my head:

Gentle Introduction is good, if a bit long, it dips a bit when he's going through history at times, and a lot of his defense and explanation for slavery and World War II don't quite register well.
Patchwork is good political theory work, and it's also short and sweet compared to his other multiparts.
This is a weird, random one, but "I wonder if Jonah Goldberg talks about this" really changed my worldview.
From Cromer to Romer is pretty good too.
Technology, Communism, and the Brown Scare is a very condensed "introduction" to moldbug. It's relevant at basically any time some tech person is shouted out of the field for being to the right of Pol Pot.
Charles Stross discovers the Cathedral
Why I am Not A White Nationalist
How to Occupy and Govern a Foreign Country
UR's advice to President Musharraf
From Mises to Carlyle

I think these assorted works generally get you the big points he makes and contain some of his more thought-provoking things. If you want to see a big list of it go here:
moldbuggery.blogspot.com/

I don't know if any sort of order is necessary with them, but I think after awhile I would just click on interesting sounding titles (usually it's interesting if it says the word Africa in it) and go on from there.

If you have a decline and you wish to assert yourself to arrest the decline, but you have to apologize for even having the assertion to arrest decline, you're not going to get anywhere are you? And that's what this weapon is.