Are any of the Eastern.Asian philosophies worth reading into?
Generally I've usually noticed Veeky Forums considering most of it to be trash.
I did read through The Tao Te Ching long ago but from what I remember it was pretty cryptic, nonsensical bullshit like "be like a rock" and so on.
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Obviously it wouldnt make sense to you, a Westerner, who lacks just about every bit of cultural context and is reading a fucking translation.
Sho' nuff.
This one's good. So is Herbert Fingarette's book on Confucian epistemology. Sample chapters here:
faculty.smcm.edu
Michael Puett and Roger Ames are also good with Chinese thought. Most everything translated by Thomas Cleary is interesting. Some of it gets a little crazy, but it's up to you.
>Butthurt slant-eyed yokel detected
Tao Te Ching is pretty straightforward in its message. It's as Oriental as you can get right next to Zhuangzhi and Mencius. But seeing you've been corrupted by Western ideology this much already, read Confucius's Analects which should be more your speed. The desire for Orientalism and spirituality for Western readers reading Chinese texts is the reason why Laozi is popular, which in China historically it's always been Confucius who was actually listened to and applied
In the hopes that a cool thread percolates I'll leave these here for any anons who might be interested.
indiana.edu
indiana.edu
us_(Eno-2015).pdf
So, perhaps to get the ball rolling...
Is it actually possible to live a philosophical life that isn't also a virtuous life? As I understand it, the attraction of Chinese thought is that it doesn't divorce religion from philosophy. Which, in the West, we do. And the problem that ensues is not that it is wrong to do so but that you wind up being right about things you would prefer not to be right about. The language-games that connect those two fields become ever more polarized. All this expands our metaphysical vocabulary to ridiculous degrees but in the end fragilizes both ourselves and our societies to the brink of incomprehension and weaponized political meme-chaos everywhere.
Zen clears the mind and mindfulness practices are good. The Tao is always more nihilistic than you are, if you're depressed af. Confucian societies are fairly robust and may not be on the verge of falling apart in the way that Western civilization is. I know this is /pol/ talk but we can keep it philosophical also. And it's not like we have to be total webs about this either. The Chinese have their own shit to deal with too.
Being ethical is a good scene. It's sort of fallen off the radar in the West since Nietzsche. We're still fascinated with the dark places in many ways - as a guy who is now bodily hitched to the Land Rover this has its blessings and its curses - and the power of those dark places is loosing all kinds of fabulous and horrible things on the world in the form of technology and capital.
But how about that virtue-seeking Chinese piety? Etiquette and ritual is wicked. So is the ambivalence towards decision-making: that, as Fingarette explains, to seek out knowledge itself is always-already a kind of a choice. Heidegger had a good reception in Japan. Wabi-sabi aesthetics are dope. Kung-fu is cool too.
Pic related is germane if anyone's into Chinese philosophy. He has another good book on martial arts as well.
I think a lot of it starts with the practice of meditation. And a specific way of meditation which I don't really think exists in the west? Anyway I've always liked the Taoist outlook and from what I understand what you do is to live a decent life and provide for your family and then as an old man wander in the woods and live according to nature. I don't think my wife will like it if I do that though.
i love the tao te ching, i'm also a big fan of heidigger, machiavelli, ovid, volataire, nietzsche, carlyle, and dostoevsky, so i think i have something of a varied taste. sure, it's cryptic, but that's because you're trying to grasp the river and not swim in it. just let it take you somewhere.
anyways, i think there's a lot from east asia, just as there is from most places. i'd suggest looking into it further just as i'd suggest reading bolano. much love and good readings, dude.
even camus highly valued meditation and practiced it himself, one also must not forget figures like yung and hesse. we know about it in the west, but we let it fall out of style, then ignore it. we should remember it, but it won't be the first time.
Yeah. My own meditation practice is pretty undisciplined but holy shit, the things you can think of/realize when you stick with it. There are times when I am wholly convinced that mindfulness is the most powerful force in the universe. I'm lazy and undisciplined with it but yeah. Count those breaths.
The Hindus, who I was reading into for a while as well, also have a kind of step-by-step process for life as well, regulated by the Dharma. There are stages for being a student, a householder, a sannyasin. Fascinating stuff. Advaita Vedanta is no joke either. It's not necessary to go bananas with it and go full guru mode, just sort of a helpful way of not losing your shit while you try and keep up with capitalism.
This is a myth the Chinese government pushes to sell you chic, a supervast majority of Buddhists and Taoists literally never meditated, ever.
Are you robert eno
No, I am his estranged and brutally scarred son, Waldemar Eno. Someday I shall return to reclaim my father's kingdom.
You could wander into the woods with your wife.
And Christian Mysticism is very underdeveloped when it comes to Meditation. Contemplation is just visualization and even then it's not nearly as deep as the stuff Buddhists do (although Christian Mysticism was always on the fringes even when it wasn't heretical whereas Buddhist meditation was always at the front and center).
>tfw Veeky Forums still operates on a 1920s Western/Oriental understanding
>Christian Mysticism is very underdeveloped when it comes to Meditation
>Buddhist meditation was always at the front and center
This is what McBuddhists actually believe.
talk to us senpai
I honestly keep my mouth shut whenever the subject comes up because I know I operate on a victorian era mode, not even a 20s one.
People should accept that china is no longer the mystical land of Lao Tzu and Confucius but a modern "nation" with people aware of the west inhabiting it.
You can believe whatever you want m8, but I'd suggest you actually read up on both Christian Mysticism and Buddhism before casting judgement as it's clear you know nothing a out either of them.
1920's understandings generally arent that bad ;)
You've already been called out by Godel
>I did read through The Tao Te Ching long ago but from what I remember it was pretty cryptic, nonsensical bullshit like "be like a rock" and so on.
What's the use of doing anything with your life, let alone going on to other Eastern Asian philosophies, if you can't understand the Tao Te fucking Ching, an incredibly obvious work?
>Trying to grasp the river and not swim in it
That's the shit I hate about Eastern philosophy. That saying doesn't apply here because in philosophy those are the same thing. It's pseudo intellectual. It's one step past sage philosophy
Yeah, fuck you too buddy.
>It's pseudo intellectual
contrary, its not intellectual at all.
and protip, stop seeing intellectualism as a virtue
Obvious to idiots
Read I'm not impressed
>stop seeing intellectualism as a virtue
so much fucking this.
Intellectualism is a moral to strive for. There's no reason to dabble outside that. It's the most adaptive idealism. No reason to go down the rabbit hole of other shit. It'll retard your progress and you'll end up as a controlled nation by foreign powers who adopted it. Eastern religions are a smug scam
>It'll retard your progress and you'll end up as a controlled nation by foreign powers who adopted it. Eastern religions are a smug scam
So you are afraid that somehow other countries will control you through reading an old book in a scheme planned thousands of years ago? And you call them pseudo intellectual?
>it was pretty cryptic, nonsensical bullshit like "be like a rock" and so on.
Veeky Forums doesn't really know shit about religion, they're the kind of pseudo that would read Fulcanelli (or most like his wikipedia page) and write a essay about how they fully understood everything.
No I never said that. You're picking through dirt.
Eastern philosophies aren't as progressively adaptive as an ideal. They don't praise progress and intellectualism, as is trait of Westernism.
You can read it with an ideal of intellectualism and get a lot out of it.
>stop seeing intellectualism as a virtue
Please don't tell me Veeky Forums believes this
They don't, theses threads are created and populated by /x/, hence why you see the same talking point in them every time, expect any time now the guy who insists that Buddhist doesn't concern itself with the supernatural because something something asian wife.
>Eastern philosophies aren't as progressively adaptive as an ideal.
Perhaps you developed this idea because you compare Eastern Philosophy with that of the West, which for a set of historic reasons became divorced from religion. Yes, some eastern religions are conservative in that they are backward facing, but not all when looking at it from a religious framework; Taoism has an incredibly sophisticated religious technology of geomancy for instance, which is adapted and used even today.
>They don't praise progress and intellectualism, as is trait of Westernism. You can read it with an ideal of intellectualism and get a lot out of it.
It wouldn't be helpful because you would be misconstruing the text with this reading. Intellectualism isn't praised because it can cloud the mind and impede personal progress. That doesn't mean being willfully ignorant, rather it is to seek a balance between striving for understanding and righteous action/practice. Intellectualism dangerously retards action and spurns its own practicality.
It moreover is idiotic to think of coming under control of "countries" as if they control and own a religion. If you like Daoism you won't suddenly start paying taxes to China, who officially espouses athetism anyway.
Holy fuck I almost replied to a troll post
>tfw I realize I responded to a troll post
The problem with the modern approach to Eastern philosophy is that's tinged with post-colonial notions of the Victorian East/West dichotomy, where the West is considered rational and scientific while the East is considered mystical and strange.
The prominence of the Dao De Jing, for example, is largely due to James Legge who wanted to single out an authorative scripture in the Daoist tradition similar to the Bible of Christianity. Daoism does not have such a text; it has several.
Daoism is not a very usefull term either; it encompasses several schools of thought which differ greatly in their philosophy and praxis. I think most people would be surprised to find out that Daoism as a movement originated during the Han dynasty with the Celestial Masters, an ascetic sect which placed heavy emphasis on soteriological ritual. They interpreted the Dao De Jing within the scope of their overall structure, which included the cosmology of the Wuxing, Chinese Astrology, Pagan Theology, Yin Yang etc.
In the Medieval tradition of Neidan as exemplified by the Quanzhen sect, the Dao De Jing was read in a meditative context in conjuction with the Yinfu Jing, both texts which had specific commentaries attached to them. Not to mention that Quanzhen Daoism drew heavily from the tradition of Confucianism and Chan Buddhism.
Taking a text and divorcing it from the milleu it was written in is a tremendous gesture of disrespect and a plain waste of time. At the very best, one will likely interpret it according to preconcieved notions - the result is more often than not simply Protestant Christianity in an oriental garb. See Siddharta by Herman Hesse.
This misreading is what fuels the New Age industry, inevitably attracting naive folks in need of a sentimental spice of that exotic seasoning. I often feel that I have no one to talk to about these things, so I hope the longwinded nature of this post is justified.
>Is it actually possible to live a philosophical life that isn't also a virtuous life? As I understand it, the attraction of Chinese thought is that it doesn't divorce religion from philosophy. Which, in the West, we do. And the problem that ensues is not that it is wrong to do so but that you wind up being right about things you would prefer not to be right about.
Yeah, I see what you're getting at with that statement. Western Philosophy, especially the continental tradition, is a philosophy of deconstruction, disappearance, equivocation, confusion.
Does eastern philosophy have an equivalent to the western Nihilist tradition? My knowledge of Zen is pretty shallow, but it seems like it might have similar 'unhappy truths'
First read-over I was like 'cmon that's a shitty response and you know it'
Spied geomancer. Wish he didn't say that, I really would've responded
Yeah it's worth looking into. Veeky Forums's opinions are usually bad. Read the Analects of Confucius if the Daodejing was too cryptic for you. When you've got a grounding in Confucius, go back to Laozi. Then you want Guangzi and Mengzi.
I think you mean Zhuangzi. The Guanzi is largely unavailable in English bar a couple of chapters, which is most unfortunate.
OP: Check out the Book of Lord Shang, it might be more to your liking: classiques.uqac.ca
Recommendations for Japanese philosophy?
t. weeb
MGS2
Do you not know the simplest facts?
Disregard the theories, look to the facts: there was the Zhou that so enraptured Confucius at some point prior to the sage's life, and his ambition was to sustain, revitalize, revive, maintain, the rites of the Zhou state, the customs that defined an ideal of beauty, proportion, and order in what was already more literary than historical memory within his culture. The "mystical land of Lao Tzu and Confucius" to which you refer was a fiction even in their time: Confucius failed as badly as Plato in his experiments at government. Lao Tzu is mystical and Daoism fantastical enough that it is hard to visualize what Lao Tzu's "China" would be. Lao Tzu makes statements about states. In fact, references to statecraft are the most lucid facet of the text. However, these are not statements about China, though he romanticizes Chinese dynasties and states much as Confucius does.
Confucius' students and those who found it politically expedient idealized him after his death. Chinese philosophy really begins with Mencius. Confucius is a cultural figure of epic proportions, but he is less like a Western philosopher than those who came after him. He's more like Pythagoras than Plato.
You're probably right.
Manyoshyu/Kokinshu for aesthetics
Dogen's Shobogenzo
Saicho
Lotus Sutra for background to Pure Land
Honen
Shinran
Nichiren
Essays in Idleness
>muh 1 million year old pills and other bullshit medicine
Don't bother
wew
>Are any of the Eastern.Asian philosophies worth reading into?
Watch a couple of those China webms to refresh your memory
>All the plebs in this thread who don't realize that an authentic Left today would be an authentic continuation of the Confucian ideal by way of the French Left of the 60's and Mao's essays on the superiority of Chinese dialectic over Western
>He still hasn't read Althusser because of 'muh killing his wife'
kek
10/10. thx senpai
>the result is more often than not simply Protestant Christianity in an oriental garb.
In all fairness to Protestants, Thailand did this to itself.
>He hasn't drunk mercury to gain eternal life yet
You still have time user
yeah but the new agers made is so incredibly uncool
People who don't understand the Tao Te Ching don't understand poetry.
Well, I considered it very poetic, sure. I just wasn't sure that "be like a boulder/stone" or whatever it was really MEANT anything.
I read the whole thing in a day, I enjoyed it as far as poetry goes I suppose.
>He hasn't ingested powdered rhino horn
Makes you harder than diamond I swear!
>I just wasn't sure that "be like a boulder/stone" or whatever it was really MEANT anything.
Is your proposition supposed to mean something to me?
No, I guess not.
That's because Confucius is authoritarian.
Gee, I guess that's all anyone needs to know about him.
>Essays in Idleness
Been looking into this today. Is it as comfy as it sounds to me?
pic related thinks you're a dumb cunt