What the fuck is with the whole "logically operating magical systems" meme that is plaguing modern fantasy? Name of the Wind (which I'll admit has good prose), Harry Potter (which I have not read although I am planning to do so soon), things like that?
Magic is fun because it isn't logical. Why the fuck would lifting a sword out of a rock make someone a king? Why the fuck would putting on a ring make you invisible? Because they make good stories, you empirically minded FUCKS. I hope the publishers finally get wise to this slop and stop this leftist, hyper-rationalist conspiracy. Not everything is fucking science.
Matthew Ward
I can understand it so far as you want the reader to understand some aspect of the magic so it doesn't feel like an ass-pull if you resolve conflicts with magic, but I'm not into all the diagrams and shit. Leave that to videogames.
Kayden Diaz
i'm sorry, are you accusing harry potter of being too realistic, because thats fucking hilarious. genre fiction readers, when will they ever learn.
Isaiah Myers
There aren't diagrams in Harry Potter, it's a story about kids learning to use magic. Jesus, OP. >Name of the Wind No idea what this is >modern fantasy There's your problem. >leftist I don't understand why you used this word.
Caleb Perez
that's exactly what i'm claiming, yes.
leftist as in the denial of the spiritual. everything has to have an exploration, nothing can be out of man's reach. man (the globalist state) can do everything
Joshua Rogers
Has to do with the metaphysics of a universe subject to dualistic interactionism.
Much like how god interveines in our world, supposedly, the logic you can see explaning that is still very tenious.
These systems are essentially trying to establish rules for how the "nonphysical" universe, the one of abstractions, hopes,and dreams interact with the physical universe.
Carson Price
that last sentence is very enlightening, but that first sentence is jibberish.
Oliver Anderson
I agree completely. Way too many people are obsessed with the "properties" of a book, which frankly have little bearing on whether or not it's actually good.
Julian Reyes
i'm honestly not sure if this is meant to be sarcasm or not. what does that say about you and me and the state of our communication?
Sebastian Cox
Fantasy writers are insecure about writing trash so they try and bring it down to Earth by making their bullshit seem well thought out and intricate.
Dylan Long
The mechanics of magic aren't explained in either of those examples though, just their interactions with the wider world. IE "why the fuck would knowing the winds name allow you to control it (and how the fuck can the wind even have a name)" or "how the fuck can paintings move and speak." The fact that magic has real world impacts is a sign of great writing and world building, like magic lanterns being bought bu the richer classes rather than candles.
Caleb Johnson
i think this is part of the problem, yes.
Camden Fisher
harry potter doesn't do the autistic magic is science thing desu. Magic wands are magic because they're made of unicorn feathers and shit like that. Should be right up your street OP.
Jonathan Reyes
Harry Potter doesn't actually have this meme. The series does have one huge strength: imagination. Rowling unironically had a lot of potential (for a children's author).
Liam Miller
what's all this about learning latin words, then? why is magic taught the same way as biology? where's the mysticism and wonder?
Eli Diaz
Coherence aids suspension of disbelief.
Jace Nelson
>(which I have not read although I am planning to do so soon) I mean, dude, you are talking about stuff that you literally do not know. Replying feels like an unfair deal because you are not speaking from what you know or conclusions that follow from it. Regardless, I will explain the problem.
Magic needs to have logic or there is no possibility of tension. If magic is purely unlimited, then all problems can be readily solved by it. There cannot be coherent challenges if magic can magic away all problems. This causes the reader to lose their foundation and trivializes the world.
Having rules for magic lets us know what is possible and sets limits on the story. These limits allow for us to know when a character is in real danger, when a problem cannot be easily resolved, and they allow us to invest in the story, knowing that the solution to the character's problems will require real effort on their part-- Scrappy Doo will not just come and magically solve everything.
Gabriel Flores
Chaos is hard to articulate. Magic has to remain inconvenient or balanced so as to not inflate itself or the story it serves. Deus ex Machina is illogical use of magic.
Easton Nelson
The latin words are absolutely mystic. You point a magic wand and say the magic word and magic magic happens. There's nothing of the sterile logic you're complaining of in that.
Just because something is taught doesn't mean it is taught scientifically.
Gabriel Watson
>leftist >hyper-rationalist LOL
Kevin Gomez
Just another way for writers without talent to try and lend some credence to their genre fiction. Because it requires no skill in writing to describe complex rules for magic, or to create rambling backstories, it's easy for amateur writers to use these preoccupations to claim that they're working on their story. The end result is that you have a complex system of magic whose only function is to explain why their Mary Sue wizard character can't win ALL of his fights, or why their paper-thin "character" is actually super deep because he has all this extra backstory that you never actually see. I have a friend who likes fantasy, and he doesn't write that well. It's obvious that every time he gets caught up in thinking of his magic system, it's because he won't put in the time or energy to improve his writing.
Dylan Martin
>leftist as in the denial of the spiritual. Why not just say 'atheistic' instead? Your use of the word 'leftist' is still wrong. Unless you're a LARPy Evolan who missed the point.
Luke Allen
>leftist as in the denial of the spiritual. everything has to have an exploration, nothing can be out of man's reach. man (the globalist state) can do everything
Dissolution of the state is the goal of the revolutionary attitude which is leftism. How the fuck do you consider "leftism" to be a denial of the spiritual? Have you ever heard the term "liberation theology"?
Marxism is humanistic, but it is only a flavor of leftism. Please flush these memes from your mind and read at least the wikipedia article on left politics.
At least you haven't conflated Marxism with postmodernism.
Andrew Cox
your proposing a solution in content to solve bad form. if the writer creates a story that requires him to use deus ex machina, he has poor sense of plot, or bad form. no """logical""" magic system can mend that. meanwhile a good writer can have unbelievably godlike powers at his characters' disposal and still find ways to create tension. content can always be constrained by good form.
OP is right to call these writers empirically minded because they have to create some stupid world and know its laws before they can find their way through it. "worldbuilding" is a disgusting crutch for weak imagination.
Easton James
Towards some historical context, look up George MacDonald's essay The Fantastic Imagination. He addresses the need for the logical consistency of the fantasy world and the reader's pleasure reading.
