Any literature on mysticism and language? I've yet to read Letter on Humanism...

Any literature on mysticism and language? I've yet to read Letter on Humanism, but I'm particularly drawn to Heidegger's famous declaration that "Language is the House of Being". Would appreciate any anons who could help clarify and unpack this statement, and provide their own thoughts and insights on the mystical elements of language.

Bump

heidegger loved his poets desu
but all the good ones seem to go mad

wittgenstein never wrote anything about poetry
wonder why

>"Logos" - Greeks
>Tractatus-Logico-Philosophicus/Blue and Brown books - Ludwig Wittgenstein
>Some presentations by Terrece McKenna
>The History of Magic - Eliphas Levi (kind of relevant)
>Nordic sagas - Skalds who predict and curse/bless people
>Irish/Celtic stories - Heroes who manipulate the world with their words/songs

I have only been wondering about the same thing for the last months so I don't have any singular source but these are some of the books/materials that come to my mind when I think about the potential mysticism or power of language.

Although the book by Levi is very superstitious it does give some interesting points about previous civilizations. I think there might be some powerful effect of using language in a ritual or algorithmic way. I have also been learning programming for the last year or so, and it has also made me view the world in a systematic and recursive way. Therefore I wonder if words can be used to "program" people/societies or even the environment (mysticism) for an altered outcome. I know this is starting to sound absolutely insane but sometimes it feels like something I said long time ago, happens to me in a seemingly random way. Also, the effects of psychadelic drugs seem to support this alteration of reality from my personal experience.

Pic related: Someone who changed the course of history with spoken/written words.

the funny thing about this quote is that imho contacts are created and established by *not* speaking your thoughts and isolation is more frequently created by speaking them...

good stuff

Holy shit, are you me? Same wrt the programming and psychedelics.

I'm What did you try from psychadelics?
I did some psilocybin semilanceata (grows everywhere), where I did some tripping and micro-dosing, definitely something to further experiment on if you have the will. Also did some amanitas which are very dangerous if you don't know your doses (easy to detoxify but potent shit). Only done one synthetic one, 25-iNbome, do not recommend, that shit is cancer. I will probably try to get my hands on acid and amanitas in the future and try to grow my own. There is definitely something very mysterious about mushrooms when you start going down that rabbit hole.

Case in point:
>The forefathers of the greeks were called the Mycaneans, literally meaning the mushroom people (mycēs (μύkης, "mushroom"))
>Likely came from indo-european nomads who had access to psilocybin and soma (likely amanitas) for thousands of years, invented the wheel, city states, aggressive warfare, pantheonic religion, etc.
>There is strong evidence that the new testament is a very well disguised guide book for amanita gathering (look up the harvesting and grow period of amanita muscaria and compare it to the whole jesus saga)
>The vikings were using amanitas (called berserk mushroom in the nordic countries) for physical empowerment. This makes sense since a medium does of amanita effects the GABA receptors in the brain making you feel stronger and more physically capable.
>I have read some speculations that some hermetic texts describe the preparation of mushrooms or amanitas for creating "elixirs of wisdom", "philosophers stone", etc.
I am absolutely fascinated by this mushroom. If you are interested, check out the books "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross". Still it is just a dissociate chemical in this mushroom (muscimol), I have yet to experience a powerful vision but the effects are pretty awesome on even low doses.

>wittgenstein never wrote anything about poetry
t. hurr durr I've literally never cracked open a single Wittgenstein text

I've tripped on psilocybin a couple of times, 25i once (scary but lesson learned), salvia a few times, LSD and DMT numerous times, sometimes together. Overall they've been very intense, very enlightening experiences. I'm taking a couple tabs of acid in the woods within the next few days, actually. Shame we don't know each other because you seem like a person I would definitely like to trip with.

Good thread so far.

If you're looking to dive further into Heidegger's writings on language, On the Way to Language, Poetry Language Thought, and Contributions to Philosophy all flesh out his views more. Even still this is an area of Heidegger I struggle with, and I get the sense that Heidegger himself and even many of today's scholars are still unclear on what exactly he thought.

With regard to "Language is the House of Being," I feel that this phrase is little understood. Without reference to Heidegger's philosophizing about homes and dwellings, the full important of the phrase is lost. The essay "Building Dwelling Thinking" lays out these views, as does a section of Basic Questions of Philosophy: basically a dwelling is both an embodiment and a grounding of practices that reflect a certain Openness (a disposition) toward Being. So, obviously, a people who are more connected with nature will have a dwelling that reflects a close relationship to nature more than those who live in an industrial society. So, while a house is not itself the life lived inside of it, it is a space where a certain mode of life can unfold. There is a circular aspect here: a certain idea of everyday life guides the design of the house, which then allows the physical realization and continuation of this lifestyle (ie an Openness toward Being). In this sense the house is the physical intermediary between Being as idea (in designing the house) and Being as the Openness of Dasein (embodied in the actual lives lived in the house). However, the house also operates as an ABSTRACTION of the lives possible within it. How life actually unfolds will depend on the people in their interactions with the home. A studio apartment, for instance, excludes some forms of life from occurring inside it (such as having a large family), but in terms of what actually occurs inside it, there are as many possibilities as people in the world.

Back to language: individual languages offer restrictions and possibilities of Being in a similar way a house does. Just as a house is a physical structure allowing a space for Being, a language is a social structure in which modes of Being can manifest in a determinate way. For instance the Japanese maintain rigid relationships of authority in the structure of their language: because of this some social occurrences are possible and others are restricted. While it might be frowned upon to contradict your superiors, at the same time it is more encouraged to be part of a mentoring relationship, which is becoming increasingly difficult in the West.

So what can we learn about Being from the house of language? First, this depends on the language, and second, whatever we do learn is only an indirect reflection of Being. Just as we can't experience the lifestyle of a house by only visiting an empty home, we cannot understand language without our OWN Openness toward Being. Is a vacant house a house? Heidegger would say no, and on the same token a language without being embedded in a certain way of life is not a language.

Here we get to the mystical aspect. Ultimately, I believe (as have other scholars), that Heidegger's later philosophy has a mystical motive. Heidegger tries to use language to transcend it, which is why we became so fascinated by poetry. So, in "Language is the House of Being," we find somewhat of an opposition between words and Being: words might be the structure by which Being can show itself, but if we get lost in analyzing only words then we are focused only on the container and not Being itself. No matter how much you design a house, it doesn't become a house until people move in; no matter how much you talk about Being, you won't "understand" language until you have had an experience with the Being projected in it.

Incredible, thank you. Would this dwelling have anything to do with, say, the Schmittian nomos (νόμος)?

I'm also a little unsure of what exactly constitutes Openness toward Being. I'm just now barely getting into Heidegger.

the electronic revolution by burroughs

I'd also like to discuss with you further. Would you have an email, throwaway or otherwise, you can give me? if you're willing

good thread lads

Thank you, glad you appreciated it! I'm not familiar with Schmitt, but from what I could quickly look up it appears that his concept of nomos has more to do with society as a whole than individuals. Dwelling as Heidegger sees it is determined more by one's interaction with the environment (of which society is a part) rather than social conditioning.

Openness is such a fundamental concept for Heidegger that it's hard to describe in detail. But basically, Openness is the property by which the world is able to have an effect on man. So the fact that you can think about a tree or talk about another person or build a house, all this is the result of your Openness toward the world. If you're at all familiar with Heideggerian terminology, a thing can be present- or ready-at-hand for us because we are Open to it. I believe this is very similar to the Buddhist conception of consciousness, where man is "Empty" and whatever "He" is is simply the world around him re-presented to his essential emptiness. For Heidegger, "Openness" is an attempt to get below loaded philosophical concepts like consciousness, the Subject, and idealism and find what has to be *possible* for these things to make sense (even if they are distortions of thought). But the reason we can think this way is because we can have a relationship with the world at all. For him, this ability to have a relationship with Being is the essential aspect of man.

Sure, I included a throwaway email in the heading. Apologies if I forget to check it but I think it could be a good time.

>tfw morally committed to helping fellow seekers and love talking about this stuff but have almost finished book and don't want people pilfering my potpourri synthesis of the last 300 years of philosophy or my weird neologisms that I can't help using even though it's a 1/100000 chance I'm not just insane and a 1/1000000000000 chance that even if I'm not insane anyone would "pilfer" anything from me

huh Veeky Forums changed the email format. Hopefully the email shows up now

oh come on, share a weird neologism already. don't be coy

>since an immense moat separates the subjective certitude that I have for myself from the objective reality that I present to others, since I never stop finding myself guilty even though I feel I am innocent
I know that feel

not them but after smoking some DPT i got into hellish reality, universe full of riddles, fractals, geometric figures, all travelling through infinite loops over and over again, even indulging in identical fights, all that in some repetive, devilish rhythm, like they are dancing, and next move in their never changing dance is all they care about. I thought about death, and how souls are trapped in this reality, doing repetive, uselless patterns over and over again since they find new body, getting born, and cycle of life starts again. It was honestly horryfying experience.
Anyone saw something similiar? Like colorful tree with small balls of energy, fighting and rotating around own axis very slowly, in precise, predictable way

...

Literally how the hell do you change that?

whole construction was red and unbearable minimalistic, i saw it in 3D, from side of construction, and also every small ball of energy going through circles in tree. Movement was precise, and kinda complicated but very repetive

Sounds terrible. Why do people trip exactly? You can just read philosophy or watch Enter the Void.