Can free will be reconciled with Providence?

Can free will be reconciled with Providence?

god can contradict himself, presumably. so, in the end, free will is just another drop in the bucket. the rule of non contradiction is irrelevant since it is a fragment of human consciousness, and not necessarily indicative of reality, and even if it is, god is a supreme being and can obviously determine and violate rules of a reality he created to begin with.

except to find me on the next band of the spiral :~)

Your spiral shit is exactly that—shit.

anybody can listen to Tool, friend, but only assholes would.

God does not dictate the exact plan of Creation. Rather, God simply knows how it will play out, because God sees all of time in an instant.

>anybody can listen to Tool, friend, but only assholes would
quotable

Yes, just don't think too much into it, you don't want to incur in heresy, now, do you?

god is the origin of free will

Am I permitted to walk through walls? Is 2+2 true?

thanks, pelagius

no go read Jean Cauvin

No, and anyone who suggests otherwise is a fool. For example...

A fool. Would he be so keen to make excuses for his own hypocrisy?

What need is there to read holy books which purport the nature of the divine while expiating its contradictions? All apologists both believe and disbelieve what's said, it's farcical, no sane man writes or reads on the unknowable. Either your scripture is reliable or it isn't, and invariably it must be the latter to allow your god realness, the cost of which is discrediting any particular religion and said realness -- contradiction is required both of you and of your purported god. Things like the problem of evil are so simple and manifest any child understands them thus it is wise sophist fools who allow holy thoughts to endure, juggling them with a mental sleight of hand as a one man circus for all desperate enough to buy a ticket.

How does God knowing what you will do in advance negate your free will?

If someone can predict what you will do that means you will always do that thing. Ergo your will is not free, it is confined to a particular course.

This is actually something nagging at me constantly. It seems all apologetics are only literary magic tricks that could just as well be applied to prove the reverse.

That's like saying Napoleon did not have free will because we can now read about his actions in a book.

This. Y'all need to understand God's outside time AND quantum physics.

but if you know the laws of the universe and have unlimited reasoning capability you would be able to predict the future because all events are based either on physical circumstances or the neurons in the brain affecting eachother in a predictable way

You don't understand. There can be no free will without God.

That's retarded and like saying god only exists in the future.

No, because people don't innately have the knowledge of said textbook, even before it was written or Napoleon ever lived. Why do theist fags struggle so much with simple logic? Or is it because they struggle with simple logic that they are theist fags?

good literature thread

Christians think so because they think God is magically unfair as soon as free will is not a thing (but apparently not in other instances) which goes to show how single-minded they are. In truth free will isn't even supported by scripture to any significant extent. Predestination is however.

Reading is for gays and losers.

>free will isn't even supported by scripture to any significant extent
get a load of this guy

yes

t. Robinson Crusoe

quantum physics says hi

The bibl is hopelessly contradictory, but there's a sizable sect that still figures everything being god's will and therefore all is fated to turn out his way.

>free will

retards

This is exactly what makes me think we don't have free will. We feel like we do because we do make choices. But, for an observer who knew your exact dispositions and the circumstances, it would be no problem to predict what you are going to do.

But I also feel like that's just semantics and we do, for all intents and purposes, have free wll.

No. There is no free will whatsoever.

>How does God knowing what you will do in advance negate your free will?
There's no prediction involved. Every action you and everyone else will take is known and utterly fixed in the Christian scenario. "Predict" is a bad word.

If god knows p (eg. I will eat whatever it is I will eat for supper), not-p is not possible, otherwise an omniscient God could be wrong. If not-p is not possible and only p is, no one has genuine options and everything will turn out according to how God already knows.

that idea goes back to Pierre Laplace, by the way. It's been disproven that you could determine the future just because of the seeming randomness of quantum mechanics. I'm not sure how that applies to neurology though, because regardless of quantum physics we still make all decisions based on instinct or previous experiences.

let me rephrase this: the quantum explanation only adds some ambiguity to the material system. It doenst change the fact that we are still predictable machines. When the singularity comes we will likely be able to simulate the human mind and empirically prove (or disprove) this hypothesis. My guess is that we will still be able to predict human choices within 99% certainty once we have the technology.

t. Pseud

Only if God loves free will.

Maybe He doesn't.

Compatibilism

god wants to skull fuck my eye holes

and bust His glorious nut as backwards-compatible circuitry in my hominid brain because reasons

perhaps He is lonely & misunderstood

wat do

>no-one really understands quantum physics so that's definitive proof against a newtonian universe even though it doesn't hold up on a macroscopic scale and fundamentally requires reevaluation of all metrics and definitions involved
wew lad

...

Appeal to the goddesses, Demeter, Artemus, Hera, Athena. Unless you like that sort of thing.

well yeah that's kind of the gist of what I was saying. Science also falls apart when you go back to the big bang.

Praise the Lord

athena's p cool

thx

yes, basically, read about Molinism and middle knowledge.

nice, thanks

What is the lack of truthmakers for counterfactuals of creaturely freedom?

>thinking unmovable movers exist
>2017

>having belief
>Ab urbe condita MMDCCLXX

>2770
what

AUC is since the founding of rome, not Anno Domini