Why does Veeky Forums take the Gulag Archipelago any more seriously than any of the tens of thousands of accounts from...

Because there existed, and still exist, huge political movements in the rest of the world that share the same ideology of the government of the USSR.

It's not like Nazism which was only relevant in the 1930s and in a few countries.

Peterson puts Man's Search for Meaning on equal footing with the Gulag Archipelago, pseud that he is.

Eh. Soviet state capitalism is to communism as Nazism is to nationalism.

Because there are lot of neo-Nazis on here

Hollywood puts out massive Holocaust blockbusters regularly. There's plenty of interest in the nazis and nazi is used as an insult just as much as communist.

Also communism isn't a big movement any more, most "socialists" just support a strong welfare state. More countries are closer to national socialism than communist-style socialism today.

>muh convenient utopian definitions of ideologies I'm interested in

source on this? that would be pretty hilarious

>buy my book user!
>also donate to my patreon and pay for my lectures I'm only pulling in $1.5m a year!

why are neo-Nazis so opposed to communism when communism is more sympathetic to national socialism than capitalism is? Capitalist nations were the ones who tried to destroy nazi Germany not the Soviets. Hitler's reason for invading USSR weren't because he hated communism.

Becuase most neo-Nazis aren't interested in Nazism for it's socialist aspects.
Unless they're Strasserists or Nazbols

The history of libertarian socialism goes way back before leninism, though. muh gulags is just a crude appeal to guilt by association.

Tadeusz Borowski was better

Dude, his pic should be next to the word in the dictionary.

Solzhetnitsyn's most important book is "200 Years Together." If only there was a decent English translation .... hmm, wonder why there isn't.

>Capitalist nations were the ones who tried to destroy nazi Germany not the Soviets

>muh gulags
>muh laogai
>muh reeducation camps
>muh whatever this is called in Venezuela

amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/07/venezuela-new-regime-effectively-amounts-to-forced-labour/

Why does it keep happening? Maybe there is something in the nature of the communist political movement that makes it totalitarian and genocidal?

No, it's just the fault of state capitalism. I'm sure the Paris Commune, the Spartacist uprising and Anarchist Catalonia would have turned out completely different had they won!

Because the Bolsheviks were 80% Jews and something similar in the attempted communist coup in Germany. Communism is basically a Jewish scam to gain power and they only push for it if they strategically stand to gain. It's basically Christianity transferred to a modern materialistic ideological frame.

because they're told to duh

Academia has a monopoly on what it translates, and it's pure coincidence that they translate only what suits them.

This. And so is liberalism/neoliberalism/whatever you want to call the predominant ideology of the current west. These are all jewish slave moralities based around the fake and unattainable notion of "equality."

The Bolsheviks consisted of 80% Jews. Something similar was the case for the communists who attempted a revolution in Germany. Communism is a Jewish scam that Jews push for if they strategically stand to gain from it. It's basically Christianity transferred to a modern materialistic ideological frame (Christianity was similarly a way for Jews to control the Goyim)

amnesty international are regime change shills and venezuela was never nothing more than social democracy financed by oil revenue.

you gotta think about the nature of the capitalist system. why is it worth defending?

sry I deleted and reposted my reply because of typos.

post proof that isn't david duke

I don't take it any more seriously than Holocaust memoirs, desu. There is plenty in GA that is hearsay, exaggeration, or just uninformed extrapolation from one person's account--and the same is true of first-person Holocaust accounts. The difference is that it isn't illegal to say that Solzhenitsyn exaggerated the extent or cruelty of the Soviet labor camps. I can't speak for every gas-the-kikes 1488 /pol/ shitposter but if every child in public schooling was required to acknowledge that The Gulag Archipelago was 100% factual I would probably be posting horny Solzhenitsyn slav memes too.

That being said, Solzhenitsyn is far more trustworthy than Wiesel, who is exactly truthful enough not to be a complete fraud and not one jot more.

This is a pretty good primer:
unz.com/acockburn/truth-and-fiction-in-elie-wiesels-night/

>implying there isn't an equal if not greater hatred for communism

I'm old enough to remember 2004 and 2005. I'm old enough to remember left-wing intellectuals proclaiming Bolivarianism the "Socialism of the 21st century". I'm old enough to remember everyone praising Hugo Chávez in the World Social Forum, in Porto Alegre.

You won't fool me with this "not real socialism" argument.

>you gotta think about the nature of the capitalist system. why is it worth defending?

Because there is literally nothing wrong with the private ownership of the means of production.

Solzhenitsyn is mandatory reading in russian high schools. Fake patriot SolzhenitSHIT slanders
great Eurasian warrior and mystic STALIN, who was the rightful and orthodox Tsar of Russia. Coincidence? i don't think so.

>literally

Capitalism will outgrow its need for humans within the next 50 years, though

Solzhenitsyn wrote one of the most important books on the psychopathic tribe of genocidal wanderers commonly referred to as jews. And I hear there's a new English translation coming soon.

...

>muh convenient utopian definitions of ideologies I'm interested in

What did he mean by this?

Because they're dumb Americans who have had 70 years of anti-Russian propaganda permeating every aspect of their existence?

It's funny how they still accept the fusion of capitalism and communism that will lead to their total dehumanization without even blinking.

Because the Jews never shut up about the holocaust and Russians don't whine so it's interesting to hear what they have to say about the gulags. That and Solzhenitsyn is a really good writer.

Is this a subtle anti-Peterson thread? If so I applaud you, OP.

shill

Solzhenitsyn is pro-Russia but anti-Communist, though. He quite liked Putin, too.

Solzhenitsyn and the book aren't even remotely anti-Russian, they're only anti-Communist.

Man's Search for Meaning is by Viktor Frankl you retard

so is Solzhenitsyn, the numbers, locations, and events are directly contradicted by soviet records declassified decades after GA's publication.

hitler did have a violent hatred for communism.

Anne Applebaum, who's probably the leading Gulag historian, called the book pretty accurate for being an oral history. Solzhenitsyn himself qualifies a lot of what he writes by claiming that it could be hearsay

So it's you right? You're that commie that can't argue against historical records of what communism really was and is.

has anyone here actually read 200 years together? i'm guessing no. the wikipedia article doesn't make it sound terribly antisemitic though. some traditionalist bias and simply false statistics due to Solz being misinformed, but nothing absurd (except for Jews being responsible for Russians being alcoholics).

The thing is, you can write a perfectly reasonable book that connects Jews being ostracized by the larger Russian culture to their propensity for communism. Of course post-Christian ideologies like Marxism are attractive to people who get shat on constantly for not being "real" Russians. The problem is that you'll always be writing that in the shadow of the 6 million Jews who were murdered by people who made similar arguments.

Communism was necessarily associated with internationalism, which is the direct opposite of fascist and National Socialist ultranationalism.

It's probably apocryphal, but I remember hearing that before his suicide, Hitler is alleged to have suggested that the Slavs had proven themselves to be the more virile race and expressed the hope that the Soviet Union would prevail over the liberal democracies of the West.

It's actually not uncommon for postwar fascists, who are rarely anti-Slavic, to express the view that liberal capitalism has proven itself to be a far greater threat to Western Civilization/the Aryan race/etc. than communism, at least in terms of how it was actually implemented in practice (most actually "communist" governments in practice tend to resemble Nazi Germany in their shared nationalism, martial virtues, cultural conservatism, and authoritarianism). Francis Parker Yockey, a third positionist who idolized Hitler, is one of the most well-known figures on the far-right to express this view point and favored a Red-Brown alliance, which probably seemed a lot more feasible at the time.

Only in theory. In practice, most "communist" countries were strongly nationalistic. Mussolini described the political system of Stalin's Russia as a kind of "Slavic fascism", and Hitler felt there were strongly similarities to National Socialism.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Theres a reason National Bolshevists idolise Stalins USSR, it was largely Russian Ethno-nationalism wrapped in communist clothing

I've read the available translation of it, which I believe includes some missing parts but contains the meat of the book. It's very important stuff, because whites need to understand what a murderous race of psychopaths jews are. Solzhenitsyn takes the honorable route, saying both Russians and jews should take responsibility for what happened; but this is not an effective approach against the jew because the jew is incapable of admitting wrongdoing. Jews are liars to the deepest part of their soul, their whole history is a lie, they cannot take responsibility for their actions, and even when they are responsible for the deaths of tens of millions. They will lie and lie some more about it, then turn around and cry to others / develop endless propaganda about the supposed holocaust -- which, to the extent it was true, was literally in large part a reaction to people realizing the murders and conditions Solzhenitsyn is describing in 200 Years Together!!!

I mean, this is insane behavior that almost defies explanation. And it's why there's nothing hyperbolic about simply acknowledging the truth: that this is a wandering tribe of sociopaths.

This fucking namefag again.
>jews being ostracized
Look at these fools who over and over regurgitate the poor-little-me lies jews have told them.

*baka*

oh i'm sorry, you're a moron

I assume these were both you, but I think this misses a key point. In describing eastern bloc communism as "nationalistic," you have to stretch the definition quite a bit, and make it out to be something like "Slavic nationalism."

We are talking about jewish-run systems, and jewish-run systems are always inherently anti-nation at their core, because jews are internationalists who actively work to destroy whatever nation they're in. What you instead get in place of nationalism is loyalty to an abstract ideology, which is what is being mistaken here I believe. Christianity, communism, modern liberalism ... these are jewish ideological systems designed or implemented to supercede the nation.

As this gentleman put it, nationalism and (jewish) systems like communism and our current model of neoliberalism are by their nature anti-nationalistic, or opposed to the interests of the nation.

You must be jewish.

You're literally no different from the black people who blame white people for all of their problems

This is an inaccurate and poorly thought out argument from someone who knows nothing of jewish behavior.

>Solzhenitsyn takes the honorable route, saying both Russians and jews should take responsibility for what happened

so you admit that you're not honorable. then why do you think you're in a position to chastise others for their moral failings?

Your makes no sense. A tiny tribe like jews murdering tens of millions of ethnic Russians and then refusing to acknowledge their crimes is not a "moral failing." It's pure psycopathy. And I'm not Russian. Please think before you post.

u mad goy?

Whites have a right to be mad, and they have every justification for removing jews from their societies.

>I haven't heard of Gulag Archipelago winning any awards and it's Solzhenitsyn's most popular book. What does that tell you about his literary credentials?
Nothing, it tells me that American intellectuals had a hard-on for the Soviet Union during the Cold War and got butthurt whenever actual Russians informed them that it wasn't actually utopia

>Also is it a coincidence all the literary talents acknowleged in the West from Russia at the time (like the two who won nobel prizes) happened to by anti-communist or just coincidental?
Communists don't write good books.

On Wikipedia there is a quote from him talking to a Rabbi, where the Rabbi accuses him of not telling telling the truth and Weisel says "I am saying things that need to be said."

>MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
what did the cattle mean by this?

i thought it was more or less established that Night was autobiographical fiction like Portrait or whatever.

People said this during the industrial revolution, too.

>Ass blasted KGB controlled ex wife says it's fake so Gulags don't real.

Holy shit you commies are pathetic.

You have the right, sure. That doesn't mean you'll ever get it. The Jews are your superiors intellectually and have ideologically subverted you for hundreds, maybe even thousands of years. Read the Protocols. GOY KINGS (European Royalty) were inbred idiots who sold their kingdoms and all their nations descendants into bond slavery.

>he thinks the 20th century actually happened

>every horrible thing that non-blacks have done to each other should be subject to revisionism

worst meme

mr finkelstein has some real problems with mr wiesel

Pure jewish projection -- trying to claim others are inbred when jews are the most inbred people on the planet. And jews have been kicked out of their host nations hundreds of times, it's what always happens, and not out of the ordinary at all. Any success they have is purely parasitic; whites are responsible for 97% of the world's scientific achievements -- so how could jews possibly be their intellectual superiors? It's quite simply false. Jews are mentally sick people who have damaged the world immensely, and they need to be put in permanent exile.

>need to be put in permanent exile.
When will people learn that with these kinds of people extermination is the only answer?

Here's what Hitler did wrong: he didn't gas the jews.

>Norman Finkelstein
>a few thousand Palestinians being killed in 60 years is morally equivalent to 6 million Jews being systematically executed in a decade

he isnt down with 6 million number desu

also, the moral hazard of using the holocaust to advance financial and colonial ventures is obvious

Does he use the 4 and half million number that some places estimate, or is he one of those revisionists who's too cowardly to take a stance?

about that, he suggests that raul hilberg is on point, and then revises it down due to research on einsatzgruppen and eastern european militias.

What he really hates is the fact that there are 10,000,000 survivors when there were really like 109,000

>6 million Jews
People still use this number non-ironically?

No kidding? What is the generally accepted source for the six-million holocaust victims figure, anyways? I guess I never looked into it.

Jews have used the 6 million number over and over, and did so long before the war had even begun, because it has esoteric value to them. They are kabbalists. The Red Cross never put the figure anywhere near 6 million and we know now that most of the jews who died, died as a result of diseases like typhus -- not gas chambers. The story jews have given us unfolds the second you look into it, which is why they try to make any questioning of this particular historical event against the law. It's also pretty obvious why they do this: they are a tribe of liars who think they have the right to rule over others and attack anyone who raises issues with their authority.

Hmmm... Well, I'd like to see a source recommended by a person who believes in the commonly accepted history, and judge its veracity for myself (nothing against you user; just curious to see what others have to say).

I wonder, would you say that Germany's concentration camps for Jews and Gypsies were roughly the equivalent of the US Interment camps for Japanese?

>
>Capitalism will outgrow its need for humans within the next 50 years, though

Do you think that is a problem that Marxism can effectively solve?

Marxism and socialistic organization requires more wealth generation to properly run, as redistribution is inherently less efficient. Those governing redistribution aren't doing it for free, and their job isn't generating "organic" wealth as would a market based system.

Late-stage cat lady capitalism is most certainly not ideal, but that doesn't mean we intentionally go to a system less suited to solve the problems that capitalism is floundering about with.

Every implementation of Marxism has either turned into a murderous dictatorship, or a mob of the least capable ruling over the more capable temporarily until a dictator can come in and quickly sieze power from the disorganized sods.

There's no lack of information on the internet about the holocaust, so by all means look into it. I'm not even big on pushing the issue myself since I think too many people have been too deeply brainwashed by jews about it. But it should be obvious to everybody that there's a lot of fuckery going on.

The US and German internment camps served the same purpose, which was to separate dual-citizens who were prone to taking action against the government. People have to understand that fascism came about as a result of the jewish bolshevik coup in Russia that Solzhenitsyn spent his life writing about. The Germans and others saw jews in Russia murdering ethnic Russians by the tens of millions and wanted to protect themselves from the revolutionary jews in their own nations. What people need to ask and find the answers to, regardless of whether or not they think the holocaust happened or not, is 'what were jews doing?' Any half-wit skeptic will know that this wasn't really about evil Germans murdering poor, innocent jews.

I encourage people to look into these things and make their own conclusions. But the people like myself who have tend to reach a similar conclusion, as hard as it may be for the normie to synthesize internally, that jews are manipulative psychopaths who lie about everything and work to exterminate those they live among, as they did in Russia, and which was documented by Solzhenitsyn in 200 Years Together. The title refers to the 200 year relationship between Russians and jews that ended in the aforementioned jewish extermination of upwards of 60 million Russians.

>who's probably the leading Gulag historian

pop historian, yeah, sure why not?

>The Germans and others saw jews in Russia murdering ethnic Russians by the tens of millions and wanted to protect themselves from the revolutionary jews in their own nations

Jews were commies no doubt, but the idea that that russian regime was a pro-jewish one, or that jews were treated well in Soviet Russia is inane. You have a narrative that works well enough, but you're pushing it way too far.

>What people need to ask and find the answers to, regardless of whether or not they think the holocaust happened or not, is 'what were jews doing?' Any half-wit skeptic will know that this wasn't really about evil Germans murdering poor, innocent jews.

Denying the civil rights of a class of people that had lived in those places for hundreds of years, on the basis of urban intelligentsia launching a failed revolution? Any half-wit would know that's not a proportional response.

I encourage YOU to learn the history of the Jew from before the 20th century. There's a reason these people are always making trouble, and why so many of the most dogged leftists in Europe were jews.

It's the same reason the most revolutionary class of people in america today are the blacks. (Albeit with very different circumstances.) When a tribe has to exist within a foreign culture, a country that doesn't really belong to them, they become nationalists, or they become leftists.

And don't forget the Judenrats or the Zionists so eager to sell out their fellow jews, if they were communists, or even just unwilling to leave for Israel.

>Jews were commies no doubt, but the idea that that russian regime was a pro-jewish one, or that jews were treated well in Soviet Russia is inane
I'm not inclined to pay you much attention because you get something basic like this all wrong and don't know the chronology. Jews led the bolshevik coup in 1917 and created the Soviet Union. They ran nearly everything and committed most if the murder until Stalin purged them in the 40s.

>failed revolution
Jews were doing a lot more than that. You ever heard of Weimar?

>I encourage YOU
Please don't. You've already proven yourself inadequate for this conversation.

>the most revolutionary class of people in america today are the blacks
Dude, you're killing me. Blacks are dysfunctional, and whatever "revolutionary" ideas they have were implanted in them by jews and are periodically sparked into riotous action by the jewish media.

I think that's enough. Please, refrain from giving your extensive opinion on these topics in the future. It's not fair to those who have to correct you on all the things you're wrong about.

The person you're replying to is basically engaging in superstition and folklore past a certain point.

Nuance is incredibly important. If you're questioning the truth of the holocaust as presented almost unanimously to you throughout life? That's a good thing to be doing. But the reality is even if you scale down (or beef up) what you believe the death tolls were, you're really interacting with an idea that exists independently of numbers. Did the jews, before, during, or after, have a secret, shared agenda that justified or even contextualized the holocaust? Do I oppose this Jewish collective?

You're probing at the borders of Antisemetic thought.

And, like all important ideas, antisemitism is build on truths. The Jews did lead the 1919 revolt in germany, taking vastly more leadership roles than gentiles. And Jews were perhaps over represented in the October Revolt, but only slightly. Of 20 Central Committee members, five were Jewish, but three died that year and were replaced by ethnic russians or slavs. Jews today are over represented in our political and social spheres. They have more power over what happens in the world than any other similar sized ethnic group by a landslide.

But, do they control the world? Literally?

Do they do magic? Are they evil?

Obviously I'm of the camp that we shouldn't discard logic and launch into superstitious conspiracy building just because that's how people have explained jewish successes since Charlemagne.

Maybe tribalism and in-group networks are really effective at elevating members of those groups within societies that have trouble telling jews and non-jews apart, when the jews choose to assimilate.

ok, /pol/

>Jews led the bolshevik coup in 1917 and created the Soviet Union. They ran nearly everything and committed most if the murder until Stalin purged them in the 40s

Trotsky and two other jews were in the central committee by 1918. Was lenin a secret jew?

I have no agenda. If I thought it made sense to think the Jews wanted a white genocide in russia, I'd be happy to arrive at that conclusion. But there's fuck-all evidence of that being true. Your narrative is more important to you than any actual history.

It's fucking annoying too, because you're clearly *capable* of thinking outside of the lines that were drawn for you, but instead of really continuing along and trying to uncover truth, you've just allowed yourself to be fenced in to a new idealogy that mirrors the one that shaped you (I assume you grew up in a liberal democracy believing in the 6million)

You know fuck-all about the October Revolution, obviously. Don't lecture me.

>Blacks are dysfunctional, and whatever "revolutionary" ideas they have were implanted in them by jews and are periodically sparked into riotous action by the jewish media

Why do you bother talking? You have no interest in understanding the world better. All you're capable of is speaking and thinking in the scheme of Jewish world domination.

You'd do a lot more to redpill the world if you could honestly be a realist about the disproportionate power of jews today, instead of LARPing your bad history.

Good post but this:
>It's the same reason the most revolutionary class of people in america today are the blacks.
Makes no sense at all. There's no revolutionary class in America, except maybe for a closed society of very rich moguls

>You're probing at the borders of Antisemetic thought.
You cannot trust people who talk like this. Fake words like "antisemitism" and "racism" are not legitimate. Look at how this poster uses it too: "the borders of antisemitic thought" as if this is some sort of boundary someone has to stay on one side of.

That's not how it works. The most accurate definition of "antisemitism" is one that says that it's normal and healthy to distrust and dislike jews based on their behavior. What's abnormal is using these terms to shut down speech and make people feel guilty for having normal reactions to jews and jewing.

>Was lenin a secret jew?
Yeah, Lenin was jewish too, dumbass.

Getting these basic things wrong means the rest of your post isn't worth reading. Just stop, dude.

lenin was a jew and hoxha was a muslim

in a very different sense, you're retarded and I'm done with you

I think it's best you leave the thread after that Lenin blunder. You really embarrassed yourself here.