Who here /fell for the STEM meme/?

>Jesus man, its a JOB. It doesnt define you. Its a means to an end. If you have the common sense to realize you're not special, you can avoid the inflated ego of the typical engineer. Get paid, and do what you want in your spare time with your money.

I told myself that too back then, but now I realize that I still had some of those thoughts buried deep inside my head. People have occasionally asked me how something works, and told me that I can do a lot because I'm an engineer, and that kind of stuff. You might start believing some of it without realizing that you might be accepting a stereotype.

Fell for it too.
It's OK. At least I'm pretty good at it.

Actually, you are lucky because now you wont have the same complex as liberal arts majors. Read some Tesla to get hyped about engineering and science

fellow chem-e fag here
can relate to this.
except the wife part, i'd never marry a STEM women.

Lol unread like wtf just open a book and read lmao

I've always wondered if the people that make theses threads are the same as the people who whine nobody read their queer reading of Oliver Twist paper

who here fell for the dont study at all, party and cheat through college? i got a good job out of it, but absolutely zero education - academically at least.
i tell myself that it was a social education that cant be got anywhere else, and at least i can do a half-assed job of educating myself

it follows that kant was a retard

>tfw brainlet at math so STEM is impossible for me
>tfw I'll probably never have a comfy job and instead will struggle with bills and not being fired for the rest of my life

I honestly just want to end it.

If you're not good at math you should honestly just be euthanized, not because you're considered inferior, but because it is cruel to live in this world with literally ZERO job security and no chance of progressing.

I hate myself and I hate my stupid brainlet brain.

I am a subhuman.

Honestly most arts students won't come out with better tools

I you are genuinely passionate you will have plenty of time to develop your critical analysis skills, if anything without some prof-nigga infecting your thoughts

Also people who go grad study such a specific topic, theme, author, style etc. that if you want to be like them you can just pick the one that interest you the most and write about it

Don't be a dumb cunt, it's not like undergrad means anything, and after that it's mainly about dedication.

If you're genuinely interested and interesting you'll also find plenty of people willing to read your essays and give their thoughts, hell even a good uni prof will be willing to do it even if you're not a student and you come off as genuinely passionate

chin up cunt

Math skill is 45% motivation, 45% familiarity, 10% genius. Most math whiz people are extremely familiar with math BECAUSE they had an initial motivation to pursue it in childhood. It made sense to them from the get-go. Maybe it was beautiful to them because of some incidental associations, or they were unremarkably but innately at certain aspects of it, and they liked getting good grades. Whatever it was, familiarity came easy, because practice and progress came easy. They became familiar with it without even noticing, and familiarity then entwined with the initial motivation, and the finally two mutually reinforced one another, until they were self-sustaining, and the kid was a Math Kid.

The thing is, the initial motivation in the vast majority of cases is not genius. It's not some Leibnizian attunement to the harmony of the spheres. Most of the time, it's actually surprisingly shallow minds that are interested in math. For example, people who like extremely regular logic puzzles, but who almost never ask deeper "why?" questions about the underlying possibility of the logic. Someone gave them a tool, and it tangibly works (at least in some sense), and it feels good when it works. But they don't ask "Why does it work? What IS it? What does it mean for something to 'work'?"

The vast majority of people who do math for a living are like this. It's a lot more like being a really good guitar player than being a genius: You start early, you have something that keeps you motivated (a knack for memorising tabs until you gained real skill, or a naive desire to be a rockstar), and as your muscle memory makes you better, you can do more impressive things, and that's fun, so you're motivated, and you get better, etc. By the time you hit adulthood, you may be really good at the guitar and you may be able to make a living off of it, but 99 times out of 100 you'll still be a total fucking pleb. Shit, math is more like being a good COOK than it is like being a philosopher.

tldr: Most math people are average retards with a handy skill, not geniuses. In fact, math attracts a higher degree of shallow thinkers, as people who are inclined to ask deeper questions will become unsatisfied with it and lose that initial motivation required to become good at math.

I don't fully agree with this, being a proper mathematician is very different

Apart from that it is all true, the amount of math required to do most of STEM is really just practice and familiarity, and will mostly just be calculus, induction and stats, that you can just learn from practice

I did. I wish I knew ahead of time that STEM programs attract the biggest philistines. A lot of my classmates were only semi-literate. Their intelligence is incredibly narrow. Talk to them about anything outside of video games and their respective majors and they're bumbling idiots. You have these pop-science figures telling the public that science teaches critical thinking, but they're full of shit. It teaches you how to reduce complex issues into simple issues that fit neatly into theories, unsullied by the pesky details the rest of us still foolishly consider. And, far from teaching you to be skeptical, it teaches you to be certain you're right. STEM programs should start making philosophy courses compulsory.

>job security
Well, in my country there is this teacher institution, so you just enroll there, graduate and start teaching secondary education. If you don't care much for luxury it's enough to live comfortably, and your education is just as good as a uni undergrad plus some pedagogy subjects (but the guys graduating from uni can't teach, kek).After a semester of procrastination and all around being miserable in a CompSci major, I'm thinking of going for Literature. What I mean is, user, I don't know where you're from, but things aren't as hopeless as you think.

The majority of people are like this though, you just need to find more interesting people to hang around, or have a multi-disciplinary friend group/circlejerk group

Trust me, most people studying Lit at undergrad aren't even that interested in lit

Same here.

got a job

it doesn't get better

what type of engineer

>Apart from that it is all true, the amount of math required to do most of STEM is really just practice and familiarity, and will mostly just be calculus, induction and stats, that you can just learn from practice

can confirm. I studied math an d work with engineers. they are literally retards. I told some coworkers about the Goldbach conjecture and they could not understand it.

The thing that you spend the majority of your written time doing doesn't define you?

>tfw I studied humanities
>tfw it is now my job to read books and prepare events on national history
Feels breddy gud

>It doesnt define you.
It literally does you stupid stemfag

> STEM meme

Son, I'm making 6 figures doing STEM work and I still have time to read several books a month. Even if I did "make it" with a humanities degree I'd have to deal with all the identity politics and BS that comes with academia and publishing.

It ain't a meme to get a stable job and then use the stable free time you have to enjoy literature.

>mfw I majored in Chemistry and English, talked about Infinite Jest in my med school interview and got in

> majority of your written time
> written time

What do you mean by "written time"?

The way I see it, there are 168 hours in a week and 50 of those (on average, let's say) are spent at work. In my book that leaves ~120 hours of time left in the week to do whatever else you want. Even taking out 7*7 hours for sleep, you still have more hours of free time than working.

Even if you were right about the hours, though, you would be wrong about a job defining someone. Goethe was a civil servant, does that mean that he didn't know anything about literature? You just lack the imagination to think that if somebody is doing something in their free time that means they don't appreciate it. If you view your own life this way, you're just limiting yourself.

I'd add to this by saying that you need to have diversity in your week, and work can create that diversity if you enjoy it even slightly.

You don't need that much time in the week to do what you love.

Look at people working two full time jobs a week. Just act like reading, critical analysis and writing your shitbag book/essay is a second full time job.
If you're passionate enough you can do it, if you're not passionate enough, then why are you even complaining?

>Nursing, Doctor, PA/PTs/NPs, Accounting, the Trades, Military, Business/Finance, entrepreneurship, Law, Networking

It seems like you have options

>fell for the STEM meme
>quit and picked up a trade
>now more content than ever

Understanding society in terms of mathematics and engineering is not bad though, it's all around you.

>have always loved both science and literature
>started university as a literature major
>it made me hate literature
>decide to switch to mechanical engineering
>it made me hate physics

Fuck. I'm just going to power through the next 2 years to get my engineering degree because of the job opportunities but I'm worried I'm going to end up working 50 hours a week at some car company, hating my life. Are engineering jobs as miserable as I've heard?

Yeah, I really regret it. Now I'm just hoping to go back to school and study something else. But due to the amount of debt I managed to incurr, that likely so t be possible any time soon.

I should probably just give up, but I can't bring myself to do it.

From what I've heard they are pretty shit if you're not in a really high-tier position.

Payment's good but lots of overtime and generally tedious and repetitive busywork.

>Are engineering jobs as miserable as I've heard?

They're worse. But at least if you're frugal you can save up enough money to take a lengthy break from work and perhaps make a career change.

>deconstructing

fucking kek

Electrical/computer. I solve problems with circuits and I code up scripts to automate a lot of my daily tasks

Interested to hear more about this

I did Maths without being great at it. When I realised I wasn't going to be great with women, ended up working super hard to get a top grade and now have a pretty comfortable job in cyber security. Have money to live comfortably, and have been a late bloomer of sorts. Read a couple of books a month. It gets better

I don't understand this. How do you "[fall] for the stem meme"?

Did you major in STEM for the money or something? In that case you deserve whatever you get. I majored in STEM because I like it. I also like reading, and do in my spare time.

>If you're not good at math you should honestly just be euthanized
Nah, I'm a doctor (as in medic) and do pretty well, there's always demand for the job all around the world.

I'm a Poli sci major a tier 3 Canadian university. No clue what I'm gonna do in the future, but I'm just enjoying the ride for now.

I fell for the botany meme. Hopefully I can find a job; haven't checked whether there's many openings or if it makes money, but I just liked the idea of working with plants.

haha this seriously just read nigga

Same, except I'm studying zoology. I have no idea what I'm gonna end up doing

hate to say it but brainlet at math either means you aren't that smart, or you find it too boring to pay attention to - which suggests a lack of willpower, if you want to make yourself do it but can't

intelligence isn't as compartmentalized as people think. INTEREST is, but talent is general. you're either bright or not that bright

>>tfw too late to switch to a humanities major
>>tfw going to graduate incredibly underread
I dropped out one semester before graduating in STEM.

What is "too late" you bimbo?

>it's a job bro
>do it as a hobby, decide later
>live a comfortable life
American piggy tier thread. No virtue, no self respect. Avoid suffering at all cost. Have great enlightenment -- go to meditation retreat.

dog people

Great disdain for all of you, from me.

Enjoy your yoga, doggos

what did he mean by this?

I agree with this.

You think the average STEM major (likely the ones who "fell" for it, graduated ignorantly) is intelligent enough to see math and sciences in the patterns of every day life? That takes experience, or else time with literature and your thoughts which few are willing or able to afford.

Are you serious?

You'd rather be unemployed or work shitty fast food jobs for your whole life?

Do you want to work at a fast food place in your 30s and have pharaoh (1999) be your favourite game?

>pharaoh (1999)
I vaguely remember what this is about.

> he fell for the "incomprehensible insult" meme

at least you'll have a chance at a job after graduation, I studied Spanish and still don't have a job in the field after 2 years.

now I'm back in school, getting my MA in Spanish

WRONG

Kafka worked from 8am to 1pm. He worked full-time for a year when he was around 23 / 24 but hated it and worked part-time instead.

Stupid cunt.

What's wrong with Pharoah (1999)? I play that shit all the time. Just yesterday I rescued my city from a fire and from Osiris flooding all the farmland.

>getting my MA in Spanish

Nigga why would you do that though

>always wanted to work in libraries or museums since i was a wee lad
>graduate with history degree
>no museum jobs
>get library job
>it is nothing like I thought it would be and fucking sucks a big rubber dong and the pay is shit and will always be shit

taking computer science classes at a community college now and plan on fixing all the mistakes I made for my other degree (i.e. not really applying myself, poor networking, not going to office hours).

Precalculus 1

>always wanted to work in libraries or museums since i was a wee lad
>graduate with history degree
>no museum jobs
>get library job
>it is nothing like I thought it would be and fucking sucks a big rubber dong and the pay is shit and will always be shit

taking computer science classes at a community college now and plan on fixing all the mistakes I made for my other degree (i.e. not really applying myself, poor networking, not going to office hours).

Precalculus 1 was more difficult than any class I took for history desu. Has made me realize humanities majors are pathetic imo.

In Latin America an engineering degree instantly makes you part of the economical elite.

So does having $100.

good post

thanks friend

Yeah, I fell for the STEM meme too. I thought I'd be able to read and write in my spare time but I'm too tired after work to do anything more complex than watch TV or browse Veeky Forums, and with all of the little shit that needs doing I don't get much free time anyways. Honestly going to kill myself if the rest of my life is going to be like this.

bull shit, you still can't even get a job with that.

Wow!
Top kek!

I did it once, and regretted it. I quit my comp-sci course and started studying law. Once again I regret it, should have chosen literature.

I'm a physics major. I admit I read much less often than in high school (back then I would get through a non-technical book every one or two days), but I'm learning worthwhile shit. I read in my spare time and manage to get at least a book or two in per week, depending on the length and if it's not around midterms or finals.

If you can't motivate yourself to read without having to do so for grades, do you even really enjoy it? Or is your goal just to become 'well-read'?

What about law

What can I say, the entire concept of it is immoral, in which that is quite genius. Same with medicine to a lesser extent. Being an artist at the same time as being one of these is just simply not possible!

lol presupposing "you" and it being able to be defined by a normative action

>tfw going to graduate incredibly underread

Then read more fag. Just take a hour or two out of your day to read.

I just skimmed goehtes wiki there and it says that he hates his career in the legal profession. He would rather dedicated his life to literature and writing full time

I think you are being disingenuous. Your job ultimately defines you. Especially if it is highly skilled eg doctor, lawyer, engineering. Something like that will inevitably eat up time you would rather spend reading

much sorry for bad english

>skimmed a wikipedia page
Well gee you're a certified fuckin expert now ain't ya

>computer science degree
>did TAing in my final year
>as an exercise for first years, they had to make a program that counted words from a Gutenberg copy of Anna Karenina
>not one person had heard of it or recognized the opening
>three people could name a Shakespeare play when the input asked them for a book for another exercise and I said put in a Shakespeare play (many had not even heard of him because they were Chinese or Indian)

JUST

Those are the people Veeky Forums glorifies, and you are the one they denigrate. Remember that.

It's just pretty sad. It felt like these people didn't care about learning. They just wanted to know what was required and they were in it because it's "understaffed" so they'd get easy money.

The bitter fruits of money-worship.

>>three people could name a Shakespeare play when the input asked them for a book for another exercise and I said put in a Shakespeare play (many had not even heard of him because they were Chinese or Indian)

jesus christ what a horribly constructed sentence. You must be a moron. Not to mention the fact that you're actualy surprised that chinese and indians don't recognize western lit...
and then there's this delusional projecting tard...
FUCK

>Are engineering jobs as miserable as I've heard?

Well I've heard it's mostly staring at computer screens, phone calls, random busy work. And if you do actually design something, it's going to be a very small part, like the screw on a toilet or something.

But all jobs suck for the most part, unless you're self employed or the top dog in a company. It's called 'work' for a reason. People go into engineering for the money so they can do other shit with their lives

Just read some books you dumb faggot.

Mad STEMbabby who realizes he has forgone the true fruit of knowledge for the lowly gruel of material wealth, conformity, and repetition.

ITT: those guys who go into work with a new car new watch new jeans and sit and move around doing something they absolutely dgaf about for the majority of their life.

FUCK THAT SHIT

> I just skimmed goehtes wiki
Forgive me if I don't take you as an authority on the matter, then.

> he hates his career in the legal profession
The legal profession wasn't the only non-literature thing he did. He was also a civil servant (like I originally said) and scientist (looking at botany, optics, etc.). Also, to the best of my knowledge, he resented his legal career not because it was non-literary but because he got a crap caseload that embarrassed him out of the gate.

EVEN IF everything you said was true, though, it wouldn't be a great argument for you. The fact that Goethe (hypothetically) resented not writing full time is not a reason that others should focus on literature full time--they have different personalities and can divide their time differently. The reason I brought him up was to combat this sentiment:

> I think you are being disingenuous. Your job ultimately defines you.
Goethe is just one of the examples that disprove this. He was never really a "full time author" but he's ultimately remembered for his literary achievements today. People are only "defined by their job" to the extent that they let themselves be. A lot of people, when introducing themselves, will say "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm an engineer." When they do this, you are correct and they do define themselves by their work. But who is forcing them to think this way? The answer is no one, and it's just a cultural habit that people have gotten into. There's nothing stopping you from just rejecting the thought that "I'm an engineer and that's just what I am" and writing a book/researching in your spare time. Or being a DJ in your spare time. Or doing awesome volunteer work in your free time. Defining yourself by your job is a self-imposed limitation on your own potential, not a universal maxim.

Anyways, I'm sorry for going out of the way to pick on you. If you feel the need to make literature into you're life's work in order to appreciate it, by all means do so. I genuinely hope that it's rewarding. But you can't tell everyone to do the same thing, and it's not necessary for them to do so anyways.

> it is only possible to gaf about one thing in your life

Well meme'd, my friend.

Mad LA student who has 50k of debt and serious envy of the sweet cars his STEM buddies are driving.

And also all the sweet literature his STEM buddies are reading with healthy spirits that haven't been embittered by endless debates about identity politics, critical theory, and deconstructionism.

>no time for the part time

I never been one to half ass my life's work, but hey that's just me

A fast car can't drive you away from the crushing emptiness inside you

I fell for the STEM meme just out of highschool. It was fucking terrible for the reasons this user articulates .

I found myself less and less interested in science and engineering compared to when I was in high-school. (Granted, I was an insufferable fedora-tipper in high-school, and my worldview changed considerably during my first year of university)

Changed to a Phil major a year later, at a better university as well. I've been much happier since. I have a talent in mathematics, which can be helpful in Philosophy too.

Would I have been better off doing engineering, hating it at the same time, but with supposedly better job-security at an inferior university? I may never know.

the only thing that can do that is delusion faggot.
my life of luxury and comfort has led me astray. Surely i should have picked a more painful way to fool myself.

You seem to have a lot of repressed anger.

you'd have no way of knowing that.
I'm jus being real with you.
im neither of those other guys just so you know.

Trades are my plan Z if everything else goes to shit