Gay Science

112 "Cause and Effect. We say it is "explanation"; but it is only in "description" that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science. We describe better, we explain just as little as our predecessors. We have discovered a manifold succession where the naive man and investigator of older cultures saw only two things, "cause" and "effect," as it was said; we have perfected the conception of becoming, but have not got a knowledge of what is above and behind the conception. The series of "causes" stands before us much more complete in every case; we conclude that this and that must first precede in order that that other may follow but we have not grasped anything thereby. The peculiarity, for example, in every chemical process seems a "miracle," the same as before, just like all locomotion; nobody has "explained" impulse. How could we ever explain! We operate only with things which do not exist, with lines, surfaces, bodies, atoms, divisible times, divisible spaces how can explanation ever be possible when we first make everything a conception, our conception! It is sufficient to regard science as the exactest humanising of things that is possible; we always learn to describe ourselves more accurately by describing things and their successions. Cause and effect: there is probably never any such duality; in fact there is a continuum before us, from which we isolate a few portions; just as we always observe a motion as isolated points, and therefore do not properly see it, but infer it. The abruptness with which many effects take place leads us into error; it is however only an abruptness for us. There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us. An intellect which could see cause and effect as a continuum, which could see the flux of events not according to our mode of perception, as things arbitrarily separated and broken, would throw aside the conception of cause and effect, and would deny all conditionality."

Where do I go from here?

this sounds too stupid to be nietzsche tbqh

why stupid?

he's saying that investigating cause and effect is fruitless when it isn't
>We say it is "explanation"; but it is only in "description" that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science.
might as well be going full postmoden truth denial. i don't understand the semantics of describing and explaining, "describing" the efficient cause is an "explanation" of why something happens

>"describing" the efficient cause is an "explanation" of why something happens

No, it's not. That's the point. You are not "explaning" anything, it's just a description of what we see.

you're just straight raping language right now m8, do you have a meme definition of explanation you want to share?

Stupid? I generally don't even care for Nietzsche but there's nothing stupid about this passage.

>dude science is useless because it doesn't provide [outside the scope of science] that i wish it could
stupid

>he's saying that investigating cause and effect is fruitless when it isn't

No he's not. He's saying that we apply transcendental schemata to our experience of the world, and that there's not only a certain finitude in this, but it's necessarily an anthropomorphisation of the noumenal world, whatever that may be. We are locked off, both from truly alien possibilities of thinking and from godlike ones.

The fact that you don't have the conceptual machinery to understand the importance of this is exactly the point he's making. You reflexively say, "So what? I can understand the universe! That's not 'anthropomorphic'." You don't even stop to think before starting that the "I," and the "understanding" it's doing, are arbitrary givens. You deduce efficient causes for human ends. At the end of the day, no matter how effective your covering-law models are, they'll still be self-reflexive: Even just now you've proved that you ALREADY think "explaining something" simply IS "describing something (in terms of efficient and material cause)," and that a completely "tight," completely "general" covering-law model of the universe, finely tuned to YOUR transcendental notions, will be "complete."

Even if you're self-conscious about hypostatising the entities you posit as heuristics, you'll still be completely in your own head, with a nice little description of how the sun is likely to rise tomorrow, if your descriptions hold firm another day. That is, if your transcendental expectations about how things work hold firm another day, if temporal succession holds firm, if "holding firm" holds firm, etc. And even if they all do, you'll still just have a nice timetable of sunrises.

You can't even think the possibility of other thoughts. You are stuck in your own head, with human drives, and a set of human tools for ordering sticks and rocks to satisfy those drives. The drives don't care if you decide to oppose them, and kill yourself. They don't care if you reflect on them and realise they are pointless, but that there is nothing else. And the tools don't care about anything but being the tools they are.

That's what he's saying. We have hows, and we think we have "whys," but all our whys are for-us. We can describe (Beschreibung), or circumscribe, the power of the strong nuclear force, but we can't ever understand its own motivation.

>full postmodern truth denial
Ask me how I know you're an idiot

I'm getting really tired of this teenage defensiveness reading comprehension.

> Point out something about X
> Hurr you're saying X is useless and the worst thing ever, but you're the worst thing ever you big meanie!

Are people incapable of reading anything without inferring that it seeks to destroy absolutely everything they hold dear?

>He's saying that we apply transcendental schemata to our experience of the world
he said that, but not in the quoted paragraph, so i don't see how it's relevant other than you felt like posting it

> noumenal world, whatever that may be.
a metaphysical meme, is what it is. talking about the noumenal world you might as well be talking about the spaceless timeless spacetime that god inhabited before creation, nobody cares about anything other than their subjective reality, "real substance" "matter" are magical entities. we aren't "locked off" from anything because there's nothing to be locked off from.

meme on, lad


>> Point out something about X
> We say it is "explanation"; but it is only in "description" that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science
seems pretty fucking literal

>I'm only pretending to be a retard
Not how it works kiddo.

i'm not pretending to be a retard

You really think scientists think that science has a scope in talking about the world? Watch a video of someone like Richard Dawkins or Lawrence Krauss where they talk about life, the beginning of the Universe and something arising out of nothing and see for yourself.

>nobody cares about anything other than their subjective reality

Completely untrue, not just empirically but in a sense constitutive of consciousness and known since Hegel.

But sure, I'll admit that for sake of argument.
>(1) Everyone is content with their subjective, arbitrary values, and self-reflexive measure of the world.
>(2) Generally speaking, nobody makes honest pronouncements unless they believe in the truth of those pronouncements.
>Nietzsche believes in the truth of what he's saying, according to (2).
>You believe in your own, according to (2).
>You inhabit different subjective realities, so there can be no external arbitration of truth, according to (1).
>Given (1) and (2), there's no reason to even seek an external arbitration of truth (there is no non-subjective sense in which truth is normatively "good").
>Seeking any such normative argument for truth's value would be question-begging: any such reason would itself be part of one's arbitrary subjective finitude as well.

So, we're all just pigs satisfying drives, and yours is apparently that you really like efficient and material causation. Why bother arguing with Nietzsche at all, then? Because you like to? Boring reason.

Q.E.D., I guess. Enjoy your graphs.

> pretty fucking literal

Except science, especially in its usefulness or validity is LITERALLY not mentioned in that passage.

> hurr it's implied
Therefore not literal.

Nietzsche criticize a lot. That doesn't necessarily mean he hates what he criticize, or that he even is against it - he sometimes just wants to make the phenomenon clearer, what it's problem is, what can be changed etc. What he criticizes is usually just a popular consensus which he think is overrated and that people doesn't understand it well enough, where it's origin is etc (like morality)

This sounds a lot like Bergson desu, except for the "dewd nothing's real" part.

Well he did say that he was philosophizing with a hammer, and a hammer will swing at anything that looks like a nail.

>We say it is "explanation"; but it is only in "description" that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science.
>science

>science... is LITERALLY not mentioned in that passage.
are you blind or just illiterate

explain is latin for "flatten out"
describe is latin for "write down"

Explain is a stronger term, implying total understanding of a thing. It's flattened out and there's nothing left to discover.

In this case the German is Erklarung, which is an extremely weighty term for German thought and would mean something more like revealing and truly grokking the inner spontaneous essence of the thing.

>he's saying that investigating cause and effect is fruitless
He didn't say it is fruitless. He would have had to say that science is fruitless then, but he never vouches for any such thing. The more advanced descriptions we apply are indeed useful to us, but they don't exceed the narrow viewpoint of the human and they don't penetrate the deeper inner workings of the universe as a result.

>where do I go from here
Go to the gym

That's not what he means when he talks of philosophising with a hammer. He is talking about a practice of using a hammer for sounding, not smashing things.

"Hammer Sounding (Figure 2.10.1) consists of striking the bare surface of a concrete foundation with a hammer in order to evaluate the presence of delamination and voids. Variations of the sound from the hammer striking the concrete surface are used to qualitatively determine the possible presence of delamination and voids in concrete. Typically hammer sounding is used to delineate the boundaries of delamination and voids in a concrete slab-on-ground"

Good stuff.

buttblasted STEMfag. Such philosophical inquiries about the validity of science are actually very important and so-called "rational" """people""" don't realize how fundamentally irrational and over-emotional they are being when they assume science can know all.

>The fact that you don't have the conceptual machinery to understand the importance of this is exactly the point he's making. You reflexively say, "So what? I can understand the universe! That's not 'anthropomorphic'." You don't even stop to think before starting that the "I," and the "understanding" it's doing, are arbitrary givens
babby's first skepticism